what sort of timer do you have,
does it have advance/retard bob weights, or is it advanced with a twist grip???....
if it's the bob weight type i'd check them,...
if not I'd guess it's the Carb,....
I make no secret that I don't like S&S carbs, always trouble with them,...
if you can, try a CV carb, I think you might find a hell of lot of ya problems go.

 

It running a Factory single point manual advance timer

 

My pan did the same with the Super E, couldn't get it to run nicely at all with it. Coughing through the carb, dying under hard accel.
I have a M74B Link on her now and she runs like a champ!

 

Ahh I wish I could run one but this has STD heads with intake ports like that of a shovel. I'm at a loss here!

 

Well, actually it can still be done. There is a adapter that bolts onto the Y intake, but it does push the carb out pretty far. I am pretty sure that I have one that fits the shovel intake ports, and made for a Linkert. But to further earlier comments, S&S are great if they are set up right, and I am not a big fan either. But for the less mechanical riders, they are much better than linkert, Bendix, Tillison. Although as mentioned, the CV is a damn good carb, and always my fallback carb. I have two, just for testing processes, one for BT the other for XL/s.

If the bike sputtered with the mag, and then with the timer, then the problem is somewhere else. You pretty much ruled out most other things that would cause this, unless your timing process is less than perfect. That pretty much leaves the carb, unless it is something internal we/you don't know about. If you have access to another carb, try it, and see if it fixes it, or at least makes it better, or worse.

 

Do you advance the timer before taking off? If it's retarded it won't be able to pull away without popping and coughing

 

I'd still say it's carb issues, if you're timing is okay. Coughing through the carb is mixture for sure.

 

Yeah I'm going to try a friends super e tomorrow and see what if that changes anything

 

First thing I check ANY TIME a points ignition bike is acting up is the condenser.

That's been the culprit enough times for me to be convinced.

Jason

 

^troof

 

Try the old condenser or another new one. As said this is a common culprit. Welcome to the bad new parts generation. ...or.
In your 1st post you said same thing with a mag are you timing it right, way to retarded would do this also. Are your pipes turned blue and heads way hot when running only a short time?

 

I've got a couple other condensers from my magneto parts pile, they should work right? The pipes are very crusty and old so any obvious color change I might miss but as of right now the plugs look good so I'm taking that for a fairly normal mixture. I am timing the bike with the rear piston all the way up and the timing mark (vertical dash) as just coming into the crank case window. Then everything else on the timer is timed off of that with points just opening on the narrow lobe .

 

I am timing the bike with the rear piston all the way up and the timing mark (vertical dash) as just coming into the crank case window. Then everything else on the timer is timed off of that with points just opening on the narrow lobe .

Well,... that is probably the problem,.
Lesson 101 on Harley set up........ You Always time a Harley with the FRONT cylinder coming up to top dead centre on the Compression Stroke,NEVER THE REAR CYLINDER.
then set the timing mark on the crank in the window and set the timer at full advance with the timing cam just opening the points on the narrow lobe of the cam.

 

Ok I'll do that now, an I still looking for the dash or is it now the circle drilled mark? Center of the window or just entering?

 

The dash, should be slightly to the right at full advance. I have mine there albeit on a fixed mag, and she kicks 1 kick hot and cold!

 

set the points to correct gap

have the front cylinder coming up on compression stroke.

gently get the Timing mark (the Line) in window (just before centre)

with the timer set at Full advance, have the points just about to open on the narrow lobe of the points cam by rotating the timer

tighten it all, retard the timing by however you achieve this,..(twist grip,bob weights or manualy)

then ride it like you stole it.

 

Please pardon my ignorance here, youve gotta ask potentially dumb questions one in a while!

There might be some sort of fundamental thing I'm just not getting but when I see that dash just coming into the window the rear piston is always higher just by a hair. The only mark i see just coming into the window when the front piston is higher is the dot and not that dash. And if that dot is showing just in the window, the front piston is all the way up and I can see the points lobe is 180° in the opposite direction or where I timed it to. This is a 1959 engine if that makes any difference

 

but when I see that dash just coming into the window the rear piston is always higher just by a hair. The only mark i see just coming into the window when the front piston is higher is the dot and not that dash. And if that dot is showing just in the window, the front piston is all the way up and I can see the points lobe is 180° in the opposite direction or where I timed it to. This is a 1959 engine if that makes any difference

forget the rear cylinder,.... the piston is higher up because the con rods use a common crank pin and as the rear cylinder is 45* before te front it will look like it does,....

anyway, forget the rear cylinder,.....

get the front cylinder on compression stroke and then follow my previous post.

get the LINE (NOT THE DOT) into the window gently, (this is not the TDC mark, it is the FULL ADVANCE timing mark).

when timing mark set,...get the points JUST about to open on the narrow lobe of the cam,....
if it is on the fat lobe, remove the timer from the motor, gently turn it 180* and re-instal so that when the points are about to open it is on the narrow lobe. ....
you may need to do this a couple of times as the drive helical gear has quite fine gears cut on it,
just do it till the narrow lobe is in the aproxomate area then fine tune it by rotating the timer itself,
when spot on lock it down and you should be all done.
. below is the reason for it, don't question it, just accept it as it is why it must be timed on the front cylinder advance mark.

(copied from elsewhere)

''OK - let's walk through a firing sequence, beginning with ignition in the front cylinder.
The front cylinder fires, pushing the piston down on a power stroke, spinning the crank. The rear piston is already 45 degrees down its bore on an intake stroke, being pulled by the crank, sucking in a load of fuel. Make sure you can mentally visualize this or you're gonna get lost.
For the sake of simplicity of explanation, I am saying that the spark fires the fuel mix at TDC. In fact, it fires it before TDC by up to 50 degrees of crank rotation, depending on the engine and the rpm level. This is "timing." There is an article to explain timing in this section. Also, valves actually open and close before and after TDC and BDC.
When the front piston reaches bottom dead center on its power stroke the rear piston is 45 degrees up on its compression (squeeze) stroke, pushing the fuel it pulled in up into a shrinking chamber. In other words, it's getting ready to fire, right?
The front piston, having delivered its power, is now starting up on its exhaust (blow) stroke.
At this time there is no power stroke going on in either cylinder. The engine is being turned over by the intertia of the spinning flywheel.
The rear piston arrives at its firing point on the compression stroke and a spark fires in the rear cylinder, 315 degrees (360 degrees - 45 degrees in the V) after the front did. That puts the rear cylinder into its power stroke, and the front is on its intake (suck) stroke, being pulled down by the crank.

The front cylinder goes down on intake, then back up on compression, then fires 405 degrees (360 + 45) after the rear cylinder did.
So here's the firing order.
Front Bang, rotate 315 degrees - Rear Bang, rotate 405 degrees - Front Bang, rotate 315 degrees, - Rear Bang, etc''

 

OK, now, this is your problem. First, collapse the front cylinder intake push rod tube, remove the timing plug, both plugs out. Rotate the motor, and using a wooden dowel/pensil to feel the front piston move up. Watch the intake pushrod until it goes up, then down. About a half a turn of the crankshaft, and you will see the advance mark on the wheel. Now, you are ready to time the timer. You can do it with the spark plug on a timer, I use a ohms meter on a mag. Anyway, with the timer, rotate the cam, until it is at full advance. With the spark plug hanging over to the timer side, grounded with a wire lead to the motor, rotate the timer, while watching the spark plug. When it sparks(still holding the cam on full advance) you are static timed. I always check it two or three times, and then lock it down.


Timing a mag, is the same up to where you are ready to SET the timing.
If you use the mag, you have to disconnect the wiring to the points, and using a ohm meter at the points, rotate the body, until the ohms meter tells you the points has just opened. It will show full continuity, until they crack open, that is where you lock it down.

Before starting this procedure, make sure the points of either timer, are clean and set to spec. Same with the plugs. If using a mag, you need solid core wires, not the crappy carbon ones. And the gap is different on a timer's spark plugs, versus a mag's spark plugs.

If you are kick only, I put the timing slash to the left side of the timing hole(retards about two degrees for easier starting)

As far as the rear piston being at TDC, both rods operate together, both hitting TDC only a few degrees apart, but remember they hit at 180 from each other. So if you try using the rear cylinder to time it, you are actually off timing by many many degrees. When you look at the motor apart, it is apparent that the rear piston gets to the top first, but only because it is further behind the front cylinder. But the timing is always set by the front. But it HAS to be at the right stroke. Which is why you watch the front push rod, so you know when it intakes, closes for compression, and the firing of the spark, slightly BTDC, or retarded from TDC.

 

did you get it sorted ???.....

 

I messaged explaining to him, and he said there wasn't a line just a dot he could find.. last I heard!

 

it will start and idle just fine when the timing is retarded, but if you want to go down the street then the timing needs to be advanced afterwards, otherwise it will backfire and perform poorly.