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Bonneville Motor w/o numbers

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5.7K views 31 replies 24 participants last post by  ElkCreek  
#1 ·
I have a chance to buy a 72 Bonneville motor that doesn't look bad but I'm approaching it like a complete rebuild which is fine. The price is fair and the guy selling it seems straight up.
The problem is that all the numbers have been filed off the case. He bought it from a guy a few years ago who apparently bought it from a guy a few years ago, etc.
I know that I'm in a hassle if not an impossibility of trying to register an old motor without a s/n. That said the the law is pretty clear about buying things under "the color of good title". There are also methods with affidavits, notarized documents, for circumstances and to be used in place of regular paperwork with missing documents, signatures, etc.
I know that tampering with vin #'s is a no-no but is there another way to establish or rediscover and tag a Triumph motor that's had serial #'s filed off?
 
#4 ·
theres lots of reasons to file the numbers off cases, mainly bad ones, dunno about on your side of the pond, but generally over here numberless cases are a good reason not to buy unless you can get some sort of provenance and/or a set of numbered cases to go with the motor
 
#5 ·
That particular situation is the easiest for LEO to spot, too, with basic Triumph knowlege.

i.e. starting in '70 (evidenced without numbers by the primary breather position) even un-numbered replacement cases have the "anti-theft feature" of several small Triumph logo scripts stamped across the number pad (same on the '70 frame) and then the v.i.n. stamped atop those.

Yours is blatantly obvious, and these engines are not so uncommon that it could be worth the worry/potential trouble.

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#6 ·
One way around the Triumph background anti theft marks is to re-etch them into the cases. Now I haven't done this myself but I know someone that did on a U.S. import that had no engine numbers and was bought sight unseen via ebay . He used a printed curcuit board etching kit from Radio Shack and used it on the smoothed off area were the engine number should be. The anti theft Triumph logo's aren't as deep in the metal as the originals but after he stamped in a set of numbers off a scrap set of cases it looked kosher.
 
#7 ·
When I bought my 66 Bonneville, my friend Lee who built it, had filed off the numbers and polished the cases with fine sandpaper to polish them. He was a mechanic at a Triumph dealership when he built it and he stated he would do that to most custom bikes. His reasoning was that they were titled to the frame, so he didn't care, and I suppose he could 'stick it to the man', if he caught any flack about it, by telling them how the bikes were titled, etc?
It seemed and still seems like that is a short sighted decision, in that it makes it difficult to substantiate a stolen motor, and it gives you one less piece of info that helps ID your stuff.
 
#14 ·
that does work. i did it on an old engine that had been through the ringer and everything was worn off it. the magnaflux lined up in perfect numbers where the serial number was!. then about 6 months later i saw it on csi las vegas!. any deformity (sp?) in the metal will show on the magnaflux includeing stamped numbers now gone. only problem that was on iron. aluminum engines arent magnetic so this process wont work.
 
M
#12 ·
When triumph replacement cases were available new from the factory, they came unstamped. Depending on the year they didn't even have the little triumph script background stamps. You might have a set of replacement cases or even a replacement motor from the factory and it's all legit. Of course if it's obviously been erased..............
 
#16 ·
Had a bud of mine once who got pulled over driving his van. He had his bike in the back & the cops checked it out. Pulled the guy over for not using a turnsignal. BS! Took him and his bike down to the station. detained him for 4 hrs. Then let him go W/O the bike. Told him he may get the frame back if hes luckey. Never registered the bike in his name. His life just got alot more complicated. That bike had #s. W/O any #s who knows what the cops would have done. What im saying is here in the states its a felony to tamper with #s. He would of not gotten out in 4 hrs if he had no #s on the thing. Ill save my opinion on cops as that topic is more suited for another forum. :(

The cops use some process to find out whats under the file marks. Forget what it is. Maby X-Ray? Think you can find the thread on The Horse. Think thats where I read it.

Good luck.
 
B
#17 ·
im curious to hear what happens with this. i also ive in BC and i bought a 69 bonnie with an aftermarket rigid frame. the numbers are still on the motor but i bought it with no registration. the price was right so i had no choice, as a matter of fact i just picked up a form today at icbc that i need to fill out and send 25 bucks in with and hopefully they will send me new registration. thats the plan anyways, hopefully i wont have to get it inspected too. good luck with yours keep me posted.
 
#20 ·
To find the old numbers, here is what I was told. When the numbers are stamped, it compacts and hardens the metal. So even after they are ground off, an acid etch will eat the non-compacted metal around the numbers first, raising the original numbers. Never done it and not sure if it will work on aluminum as well as steel but it makes sense

Tyler
 
#21 ·
With Aluminium , when you stamp it it goes right into the metal like throwing a rock into a pond . Even when there is no numbers they are still there ..They use a acid to bring em up .....they even do it over welded up bosses ..you would be surprised at how good this works !........SO that being Said ,Swell ........then the bike As "Dragon Said" would have vin numbers on the frame .if it is 70 above ?......so is ther numbers on the frame ?.....if not or the Question is just a lost title .then you can go to icbc .and pay 7 bucks and they search for the last owner ..send him a registered letter , if it comes back to you unopened .then they will issue yo a title ......Now if it is out of province but dude has the title but lost it .....you can take the whole bike down to the autoplan agent and most cases give you title with a bill of sale from the dude ....But ir is easier if ya can get the Lost tilte deal ........Good luk .if its cheap you can always unload it @ tswassen swap in the spring ..........i know i do !..lol
 
#27 · (Edited)
The thread was about a '72 engine. But for your purposes, all Triumph frames were numbered.

And frame numbers are considered the v.i.n.... Only exception pre-'70 Harley which titled to engine numbers.

What Eman was saying has been said ad nauseum in these threads, to those who "heard" or "got by with" some shady setup with a un-numbered frame or 'titled" engine. The random cop at the roadside check who knows only to look for a frame number to match your paper....he will TAKE your shit.

Find out the law from your state's DMV, then you will know.

.

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#28 ·
Not worth the potential hassle to have anything with bogus numbers....stolen shit has an owner somewhere, and it could be me, or someone who deserves to be pissed off, combined with a gun. Pay the money and get something legit...period.
 
#32 ·
Its different state to state and even county to county. I wouldnt think so as long as the numbers are good. Unless you have a buddy who is in the law feild who can run the numbers for you, you will have to call the courthouse, get the name of your local DOT inspector and contact him. Im goining through this now. I just bought a 48 panhead basket case with no numbers on the boss. the cases were not a matched set, so I called the district DOT inspector, he told me to use them. Well, I know better than that. Im not going to stick $2000 in a mill and them loose it in Sturgis. So I pestered the guy enough, he directed me to a State Trooper who specializes in VIN numbers. He said no, dont build untill he can try to pull a number off the case. If the number is good, I can run the case. No number dont always mean a bad number. But the number wasnt able to be pulled off. Not bad, not good, undetermined. So he had to confiscate the case and destroy it. It does suck, but before I bought the bike, I new this was a possibility, so I paid accordingly and even with the case being destroyed I still got a good deal. I purchased an aftermarket left case on ebay for $286, vs $1300 for a new set.
Bottom line is, work with your local and state DOT and you will come out good in the long run. I know the folks on a first name basis, and that is good, they will work with you.
In your case, you may want to have the numbers that are not on your title ran and find out if they are good. Im guessing your bike is titled off the frame numbers.
Kelly
 
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