Your Opinion

4286 Views 43 Replies 31 Participants Last post by Scavenger, Mar 10, 2012

Scavenger

Discussion Starter · Mar 9, 2012

I don't post opinion questions but .

What is the point of a website that is tech based ? or have most devolved into who knows more about what ,,and picture boards ?

We all have service manuals ,,but not all the ones we might ever need.

So my question would be,,

What is the point of a website if when a question is asked about something, the reply you get is "buy the manual"

I have seen many folks here ( along with myself ) scan pages and post to help people ,,etc etc.

I mean after all isn't that the point ? That if you don't know or happen to not have said manual, you ask in a community of other who might ?

1 - 20 of 44 Posts

ralphiejantz

· #2 · Mar 9, 2012

im with ya man
nothing wrong with helping someone out
i could never understand why guys wouldnt want to share their knowledge and experience with others
sometimes the service manual is just not clear enough or most of the time your putting stuff together that there is no service manual for

Flatironmike

· #3 · Mar 9, 2012

here's my .02 (you KNEW this was coming).

for the good people here restoring or upgrading or building their machines, the vast knowledge of the members is invaluable and i am a recipient of such good info and help. it's what this board is about, in my opinion.

on the other hand, there are individuals on this board who milk the good intentions and help by the knowledgeable strictly for profit on their goods. here's a 'hypothetical' scenario. tell me if you've seen this before...

a question is asked on a part. does it fit? should it be X instead of Y? what year is it? the answers pour in. there's no mention of a build, restoration or other info. soon thereafter, a very similar part is posted in the Swap area. for a very steep price (for the most part). and, you see the same part for sale on other boards by the same seller under a different name/handle. hey, i'm all for free market enterprise and capitalism - this country was built on it, but to profit off of good folks trying to help others is wrong in my opinion.

bottom line, buy the manuals. i'm sure the 'seller' can afford it. i'm not even going to go into how the 'seller' may have acquired the parts. maybe some poor widow who... but that's not for me to say. it's just my opinion and i could be wrong.

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Kickstarter

· #4 · Mar 9, 2012

^ Yup, Flatironmike is right.

Scavenger

Discussion Starter · #5 · Mar 9, 2012

Well Mike you are correct,,and of course I fall into the scenario you are talking about. ( though I ask what others are asking,,and rarely get asking price )..I have offered alot of info here as well. diagrams etc ,,.and sorry I don't post builds and such.. I don't judge others ( and there are those who have done teh same as I do and the scenario you have listed above ).

I guess more real world less internet ,is in order.

and thanks for your reply

johnson-rod

· #6 · Mar 9, 2012

Manuals don't tell the entire story. Every mechanic knows this. Cross referencing several manuals will get you close but talking to someone who has done the job before is priceless.

Granted some people abuse this but some people abuse everything.

Scavenger

Discussion Starter · #7 · Mar 9, 2012

johnson-rod said:
Manuals don't tell the entire story. Every mechanic knows this. Cross referencing several manuals will get you close but talking to someone who has done the job before is priceless.

Granted some people abuse this but some people abuse everything.

That was what I was getting at,,and asking about ID ing a part is one thing,,but asking about fitment or interchange is another, I also don't see that as an abuse

reverb

· #8 · Mar 9, 2012

...
-I have a build thread.
-I post frequently not only updating my thread. I think that is right. I do not pots more because I really do not know most of the stuff (Im not mechanic) and sometimes I do not know how to CLEARLY translate the explanation in English.
-I put questions with explained details but unfortunately, without too much interest, so no body response or the % is very low.
Possibly because Im very passionate about real riding and stuff and some marked me and did not like it

Von Zacho

· #9 · Mar 9, 2012

flatironmike said:
here's my .02 (you knew this was coming).

for the good people here restoring or upgrading or building their machines, the vast knowledge of the members is invaluable and i am a recipient of such good info and help. It's what this board is about, in my opinion.

on the other hand, there are individuals on this board who milk the good intentions and help by the knowledgeable strictly for profit on their goods. Here's a 'hypothetical' scenario. Tell me if you've seen this before...

a question is asked on a part. Does it fit? Should it be x instead of y? What year is it? The answers pour in. There's no mention of a build, restoration or other info. Soon thereafter, a very similar part is posted in the swap area. For a very steep price (for the most part). And, you see the same part for sale on other boards by the same seller under a different name/handle. Hey, i'm all for free market enterprise and capitalism - this country was built on it, but to profit off of good folks trying to help others is wrong in my opinion.

bottom line, buy the manuals. I'm sure the 'seller' can afford it. I'm not even going to go into how the 'seller' may have acquired the parts. Maybe some poor widow who... But that's not for me to say. It's just my opinion and i could be wrong.

truth

Spade115

· #10 · Mar 9, 2012

When I joined the forum many moons ago I had a sporty 86 1100 and the first thread I was instructed too was
http://jockeyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36194
because I was/am too broke to buy a manual. Tons of people here have helped me and I never did a build thread either because I was/still am learning I dont think people mind helping (Because I know I have asked TONS of questions and pm'ed people asking questions) I think its just that most questions have been answered for the most part and people want to see more then just "senior members" with 1000's of post put something useful.

I have to fully agree with mike, because as long as ive visited the forum theres always been someone pop up with a "Hey I had/found/bought whatever this is and am wondering what it is..with at the end. "Oh yeah, thats awesome, well its for sale now, I dont need it for my (Whatever new HD they are riding)"

takehikes

· #11 · Mar 9, 2012

I've been on both sides of this equation. Back in the day it was a pricey proposition to buy manuals. Today though you can find them on CD's cheap as heck. I put mine in my laptop and set it on my work bench every time I go out to work on the build. Most of the time I dont even look at it bu tnow and then it's invaluable. I actually find the parts manuals really helpful in figuring out how shit goes together!

Dr. Benway

· #12 · Mar 9, 2012

johnson-rod said:
Manuals don't tell the entire story.

But they're a damned good start.

You can tell when someone with little or no mechanical experience (not that there's any shame in that) just picked up some ratty project on CL in hopes of achieving biker stardom.

The problem occurs when instead of doing the research and learning about the machines they hop on a board and start demanding answers that, since they have zero abilities thus far, need further explanation, more answers, on and on. It's clear there's no reading or other leg work going on, just pissy insistence that someone TELL them what to do.

Pretty soon people are playing wet nurse to guys too caught up in the instant gratification thing to bother gaining the experience they're happy to plunder from others.

JoeShovel

· #13 · Mar 9, 2012

Well I think this board is great especially given my most recent issue.... However I have asked a lot of questions and probably seemed like an idiot sometimes but that is the only way to learn but they were all answered for the most part. People abuse things all the time which ruins it for us noobs trying to learn but overall response is good...

CB550 Matt

· #14 · Mar 9, 2012

+1 on asking Dumb questions.

It' what I do best.

Threadkiller

· #15 · Mar 9, 2012

Dr. Benway said:
But they're a damned good start.

You can tell when someone with little or no mechanical experience (not that there's any shame in that) just picked up some ratty project on CL in hopes of achieving biker stardom.

The problem occurs when instead of doing the research and learning about the machines they hop on a board and start demanding answers that, since they have zero abilities thus far, need further explanation, more answers, on and on. It's clear there's no reading or other leg work going on, just pissy insistence that someone TELL them what to do.

Pretty soon people are playing wet nurse to guys too caught up in the instant gratification thing to bother gaining the experience they're happy to plunder from others.

Word! I always search before I ask!..........and I have plenty of manuals, and while pricey, they're really not that expensive, are they? Besides. with enough T&E (time & effort) you could probably drag up what you need from the the www. At least to give you a leg up anyway. TK.

fatass

· #16 · Mar 9, 2012

Manuals, internet, face to face....I get my answers where I can.

I spent two days screwing with my oem oil bag and my clutch arm interfering with each other in a paughco frame; pride kept me from posting a question, but I searched around. Went up to my local Indy dealer, mentioned it and he laughed his ass off and said, "Yeah, they ALWAYS hit on paughco frames - gotta cut the bottom of the tray out."

The manual didn't have it and I couldn't get the keywords right to find it on the internet...god forbid I post it here and have someone direct me to a seven year old thread with "paughco" misspelled or something like that.

On the other hand, someone posted a question yesterday that was exactly what I needed answered at the right time, just by chance.

I don't know what all of that adds up to, so I'm gonna go run some oil lines.

Stinky Pete

· #17 · Mar 9, 2012

A lot of the times posting:
- what you know
- what you don't know
- where you've looked, and
- what you've tried

go a long way in jumpstarting the conversation and smoothing the issues Doc mentioned.

The other part of whether or not people want to jump in and bail you out...a lot of that depends on how you conduct yourself here and how you help others. I admit that I have very little interest in helping people ID parts or compatibility questions when the stuff ends up in the Swap Meet. I also have little interest in helping people who want to take more out of this community than they put in, or people who rarely follow up on the stuff they say they'll do.

On a side note - I think the stuff sold in the swap meet should be offered at reasonable prices following the spirit of this being a place to help others out. If you want premium prices take it to ebay...we shouldn't be skinning people on prices here.

I used to see Scavenger as one of these guys who took a lot more out than he put in. Lately I'm happy to see him putting in a lot more and offering up help. My comment about the swap meet, not withstanding.

Jesus - someone take my soapbox away. My opinion doesn't mean anything...I'm just glad this place keeps rolling.

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Scavenger

Discussion Starter · #18 · Mar 9, 2012

One thing I will say,,and other nay agree or disagree. I never posted much on the main board because , things either turned into a pissing match between others as to who was right or who knew more ( at which the whole question got lost and just never answered but 5 pages of arguing )

Also ,,only answer what I feel I know

few other reasons too,,and as I am sure we have all seen,,many things can devolve quickly ,,with no positive outcome of any kind.

Many times it seems alot easier to just stand by the way side rather than get dragged into some internet BS,,ya know

FeHd

· #19 · Mar 9, 2012

Manuals are a good start for sure, and are invaluble for mundane things like valve adjustments and such. Where the questions come in is when the bike in question is a combo of several bikes. I'm quite sure many here have bastard bikes that are a product of many, maybe even of different makes. I know my 74 ironhead is the product of 3 different manufacturers not including Harley, from 3 different countries, not to mention parts from different Harleys. Of course I will search far and wide to answer my own questions before I ask.

whittiger650

· #20 · Mar 9, 2012

I think it's like Dr. Benway says. I like to help people out and do what I can when I can. Many times, researching to help somebody I have learned something new or re-learned something I knew and kind of forgot.

The issue is that guy who has no intention or seems to lack the intention of doing any real research himself, starts tearing an engine down with no manual and then and only then decides he is going to get all his tech info off of other people who have the knowledge and skill to do the job.

I'm not talking about the guy who has a few bikes, let's say Triumph 650's and then happens on a BSA 650 and over the weekend or two wants to get it running and no doubt is going to get a manual. It's that guy who doesn't get a manual, when told to get a manual or where to find one, doesn't and continues to ask questions, is told repeatedly in some cases how to do it but doesn't take the advice and keeps going 'round and 'round with no results.

The guys that do like to help people out and share their knowledge looks at people like that and get tired of it. No matter how much they might like to help people. I'm sure most logical thinking people here would agree. Those guys come and go and we've all seen them.

And maybe it's "old school" but isn't it common sense really to have a manual on hand before tearing your engine down ??? With that said and as has been pointed out, there are many resources on-line for manuals nowadays. Concerning Triumphs, a lot are available in .pdf format and I always refer a guy to the source to download one. I have also been know on many occasions to e-mail a copy of a manual since I have the disc.

But, it's that guy. Once identified as a looney tune ain't getting one. Not from me anyway.

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