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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
ok, i have 19 days til the car show my friend wants to ride my triumph to..... my harley is ready to go but who likes ridin alone??

i ordered my AMAL kits, my tympanium, and now i wanna hack out all the old wiring...

me being me i would cut EVERYTHING down to 4-5" to where it has to go, so i can start all over and redo the shit right, but is there anything i need to look out for?

im new to bikes, and ENTIRELY new to brits, only had japs or HDs before...

is there anything i SHOULDNT cut? i assume coil wires and stuff need to stay where they are, but i mean shit, this brit shit has like 45 wires!!!! and im about ready to cut em ALL away and call it a day!
 

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And one last thing to help ya out when ya start wanting questions answered at 2AM and no one is online. (Been there)

Ernie Bransden, the owner and brains behind Boyer ignitions, offers the following suggestions to diagnose problems with a bike fitted with an electronic ignition…

NO SPARK CHECK:

BATTERY HAS POWER?: Switch on headlamp and activate stop lamp. They should stay bright for more than one minute.

THE FUSE KEEPS BLOWING: Replace the fuse with a 21 watt indicator bulb. As the individual electrical circuits are switched on, the bulb will glow dimly, if a faulty circuit is connected, the bulb will glow brightly. If the bulb glows brightly with nothingswitched on, remove wires from components in turn until the bulb goes out; the last one removed will be the faulty circuit.

IGNITION UNIT HAS POWER?: Using a bulb or voltmeter check the main power feed to the ignition unit. This would be the wire from the ignition or kill switch. With bulb connected between the ignition feed wire at the ignition box and battery ground, the bulb should glow brightly. If dim or varying, try moving the fuse holder, wiring, handlebars, to locate any faulty connection.

Then test between the ignition feed wire at the box and the wire used to ground or earth the ignition system. If the bulb glowed brightly when connected between the feed wire and battery ground system, but is dim when connected between the ignition feed wire and the wire used to ground the ignition, you have a faulty ground. (The bulb draws similar current to the ignition and is a more useful test than the voltmeter only.) Poor earth connections are hard to locate.

THE UNIT HAS POWER - SPARKS ON SWITCHING ON AND OFF: Most early MKIII (not Micro-MKIII, Micro-Digital or Micro-Power which will not spark when turned on and off) ignition units will produce a spark on switching on and off; if this is so and sparks are produced on all cylinders then the ignition coils must be in good order. If one or more fail to spark, a coil could be faulty. On four cylinder machines try disconnecting one coil ata time, and switching on and off, checking for sparks. On other machines that use more than one coil in series one coil failing can stop sparking due to coil failure and cause all the coils not to spark.. Also one coil can have an internal short to ground, and while it will fire, it can cause the coils after it in the chain (which are in good working order) to stop working. This is very common when a Lucas/PVL coils that are overtightened in the metal clamp. The case becomes crushed and touches the windings inside. This can occur when the coil warms up. The Micro-MKIII, Micro-Digital and Micro-Power units all turn off when not being triggered, therefore, it is best to carry out the next test as you may not always have a spark on turning on and off.
THE UNIT HAS POWER - NO SPARKS ON SWITCHING ON AND OFF AND NO SPARKS WHEN CRANKING: After performing the bulb test above to ensure the box has power, disconnect the wires from the ignition box that go to the pickup trigger plate. With the ignition on, touch these two wires together. Making and breaking the connection should make a spark atthe spark plugs. If no spark is present then the ignition box is most likely (see checking coils above) faulty. The only units that will not trigger in this way are the racing crank triggered Digital and Norton rotary units (A rapid tap on the end of the pickup will induce the ignition to fire. A single tap will arm the ignition, but if it does not see additional signals after a few seconds will turn off the box and inadvertently fire the coil). Check that the rotor magnets are running within the two metal pole pieces on the trigger plate. On British machines it is possible to move the rotor out slightly by placing a thin metal shim around the taper. The ignition will not fire by hand atless than 200 rpm.

CHECKING THE PICKUP PLATE: A full visual check of the condition of the circuit board and coils looking for loose or broken parts. Check for signs of the rotor touching the solder connections. Using a multimeter check the resistance of each pickup coil (should be approx. 65 ohms or 130 ohms across the two coils) and the total resistance across the wires or terminals. With the meter still attached, run your fingers around the coils, if the resistance changes there could be a broken winding inside. Attach the meter across the trigger plate's wires and pull on them. If the resistance changes you could have a broken wire.

CHECKING THE ROTOR: The magnets on the Boyer ignition rotor should just hold the weight of the rotor when placed against a piece of steel. Check the marking spots are the same way around. All magnets should have a similar amount of strength.
SPARKS ON CRANKING BUT WON'T FIRE: Check the pickup wires do not change colour in the wiring loom, as swapping these will make the ignition fire over 50 degrees retarded. With the digital system, check that you have suppressed plug caps fitted of approx. 5,000 ohm. If timing has just been done, don 't forget that the timing angle on the camshaft is half of the crankshaft's (i.e. on a 650 Triumph full advance timing is 38 degrees but is set at19 degrees on the camshaft.)
CONTINUOUS SPARKING WITHOUT CRANKING THE ENGINE: A poor battery with a battery charger connected or one or more bad cells in the battery. A high resistance in the wiring circuit or earth return. Check that the engine is earthed back to the frame and battery circuit. Plastic (powder coated) frames must have a good earth connection tothe engine case and battery. A wrong type of ignition coil with a very low primary resistance (under 2 to 3 ohms) will draw a very high current and produce a large volt drop across the wiring. All these will keep turning the ignition on and off, generating a chain of sparks.
ENGINE RUNS FAST AT IDLE AND KICKS BACK ON STARTING. Poor fuse connection, battery running low or variable voltage to the ignition. As the alternator charges the system with increasing engine speed the problem can clear. But as the engine speed decreases the system voltage drops and the problem reappears as the motor returns to idle.
ENGINE RUNS (POOR STARTING), BUT MISFIRES: Poor connection at rivet attaching terminal of ignition switch or bad connection vibrating on and off. Also suppressor plug caps with open (internally broken) circuit.
 

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i had one quirky issue when setting up my igniton on my bike. my timing advance unit was a 5* - 12*. not sure why or what the advantage of it was but it would not work with a single coil setup. i ended up going with dual coils & a new 12* only advance unit (which wouldve worked with a single coil) & when i installed it, we later found out that it was assembled 180* off so the plugs were firing on the wrong stroke. we just swapped the plug wires & all was good.

just a heads up if you have trouble setting the timing or getting the spark to fire on the correct stroke if youre running dual coils.
 

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there is one problem with these these don't show the points connected properly. for me i run two coils and points yeh it takes more brain power to set them up but once you do you can fix them on the side of the road it's just two basicaly seperate ignition systems or eve two single cylinder engines with one crank. sorry i'm off the point. power to one side and points/condenser to the other depending on your ground situation simple and easy to troubleshoot later
i'll shut up now
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
why was i dumb enough to think tymp got rid of boyer? and why did i also think tymp had a built in capacitor? damnit im learning...

HD coil is a NICE idea... i think i will run with that!

also, i can run the negative ground diagram without battery fine right???
 

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I'm pretty much doing the same thing. I bought a new set of points/condensors and the Tympanium (weird, thing I'm starting to spell that correctly!). The coils don't look ancient, so I kept them for now. My bike is negative ground, so guess it will stay that way.
Have you set timing yet with points? It looks a little tricky.
Any advice out there?
 

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well i have plenty of advice on setting points it's one of the most important adjustments on your brit bike i use an aircraft magneto timer they cost about 80 bucks but you can get your timing perfect no bullshit cig wraper or nuthin just dead nuts on no guessing it senses the exzact break of the points it has a buzzer and an indacator light that changes when the points break if you read a factory manule it states to set the static timing when the points just open which means what it says .first figure out your timing like 1/4inch before or 13/16ths or what ever take a piece of coat hanger find tdc mark the wire to allign with something a fin the spark plug hole ect. then mesure up the wire to your spec then put the bike in gear and bump the rear tire backwards till the timing mark alligs with your referance point,twist your advance all the way and that's when the points should JUST break thats it set the point gap on the highest point of the cam and your done unless you have a later points plate then just do the same to the other side you can also use an anolog volt meter but it's really not designed to do this the point break is hard for it to sense and that why there is a specific tool for the job sorry i'm an anal mechanic and i've done plenty of shit the back yard way but not this .my bikes never overheats the pipes don't turn blue and i've never burnt a valve when the timing is right the world is right
 

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yes, you can run without a battery. when i bought my bike it had a harley coil, capacitor and points. the capacitor took a shit. so i went to a battery. points were f'ing up. so i got the boyer unit. so freaking easy to install it wasn't even funny. they kit i got came with 2 coils so i put those in place of the single harley coil (going to go with the single accel coil later on) well, now my stator is messing up and i'm killing batteries in less than a day of riding. getting a new stator soon.

all that aside, get the boyer kit, a tymp, and make sure your stator is good. use that wiring diagram that mike showed from rask cycle and all will be well.
 

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64t100sc said:
well i have plenty of advice on setting points it's one of the most important adjustments on your brit bike i use an aircraft magneto timer they cost about 80 bucks but you can get your timing perfect no bullshit cig wraper or nuthin just dead nuts on no guessing it senses the exzact break of the points it has a buzzer and an indacator light that changes when the points break if you read a factory manule it states to set the static timing when the points just open which means what it says .first figure out your timing like 1/4inch before or 13/16ths or what ever take a piece of coat hanger find tdc mark the wire to allign with something a fin the spark plug hole ect. then mesure up the wire to your spec then put the bike in gear and bump the rear tire backwards till the timing mark alligs with your referance point,twist your advance all the way and that's when the points should JUST break thats it set the point gap on the highest point of the cam and your done unless you have a later points plate then just do the same to the other side you can also use an anolog volt meter but it's really not designed to do this the point break is hard for it to sense and that why there is a specific tool for the job sorry i'm an anal mechanic and i've done plenty of shit the back yard way but not this .my bikes never overheats the pipes don't turn blue and i've never burnt a valve when the timing is right the world is right
Whew, sounds like rocket-science to me. Maybe it will make sense when I have it opened up in front of me. The guys at my local shop said I would need a TDC tool, guess your method works around that. I know my '66 has the '68 points plate. I'm hoping to get a local guy to help me, so I don't do the things you mention last. Definitely saving this post, thanks for the advice!
 

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sorry about the long winded bs last night i replaced the door hinge pins on my 49 ford and then spent 4 hours alligning it . i almost went insane so my timing speach was a bit of a vent
p.s. the only part i left out was when you bump the wheel back to the timing mark it's best to go past it and then go back to it just to put all the slack in the motor going the driven direction direction
 

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64t100sc said:
sorry about the long winded bs last night i replaced the door hinge pins on my 49 ford and then spent 4 hours alligning it . i almost went insane so my timing speach was a bit of a vent
p.s. the only part i left out was when you bump the wheel back to the timing mark it's best to go past it and then go back to it just to put all the slack in the motor going the driven direction direction
If that's bs, keep it coming! I need all the tips/advice available.
 

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here, here. the electrics on a trump are the only thing that don't totally confuse me as wiring is one of my only specialties, but i like to hear from others the best way. i gotta do the same thing to mine in a few days so i'm looking for new tips.
 
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