There is an excellent chance that your stator and rotor (alternator) is not putting out enough juice to run the system and keep your battery up. They get old and you have the classic symptoms. I recommend the hi-output SPARX system.
triumph voltage issue...
I'm trying to work out the bugs on my freshly rebuilt 71 tr6c. I put in a boyer ignition, tympanium, and a brand new wiring harness... I'm having a problem that I can't seem to figure out.
After a while, on my first couple rides the perfromace started to slowly detiorate... dim headligh, sputtering, backfiring, stalling etc. just got worse and worse. It would start right back up after a stall, but if I crack the throttle, it would bog down. If I opened it slowly, it would be okay.
I checked the voltage on the battery, with the bike off. I was getting about 10 and change. I charged it back up to 12 volts, checked the voltage drop with the light on, it dropped to 11. If I understand correctly, 11 is average with the light load, and should read about 13 volts while it's running. But I can't get a voltage reading with the bike running for some reason... the numbers just won't register on the digital guage... they just jump all over the place so fast that you can't read them.
I took it for a ride with the fresh charge, and got a reading of 11.5 when I got back... so it seems that something is not charging. The battery is brand new... I would just replace it, but I don't think that's the issue.
Can anyone offer some other ideas on what to check and how to check it?
Thanks
-Brendan
After a while, on my first couple rides the perfromace started to slowly detiorate... dim headligh, sputtering, backfiring, stalling etc. just got worse and worse. It would start right back up after a stall, but if I crack the throttle, it would bog down. If I opened it slowly, it would be okay.
I checked the voltage on the battery, with the bike off. I was getting about 10 and change. I charged it back up to 12 volts, checked the voltage drop with the light on, it dropped to 11. If I understand correctly, 11 is average with the light load, and should read about 13 volts while it's running. But I can't get a voltage reading with the bike running for some reason... the numbers just won't register on the digital guage... they just jump all over the place so fast that you can't read them.
I took it for a ride with the fresh charge, and got a reading of 11.5 when I got back... so it seems that something is not charging. The battery is brand new... I would just replace it, but I don't think that's the issue.
Can anyone offer some other ideas on what to check and how to check it?
Thanks
-Brendan
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
hey, i just did all the electrical stuff a few weeks ago on my bike so i may be of some help:
an easy way to see if your stator is making juice is to take the two wires coming out of it, ground one & test the other with a test light. just pull the plugs out & kick it over nice & hard. your test light should glow for a second. switch the wires & it should do the same. if it makes juice its good. then, just make sure the tempannium is wired up good. the stator wires should go to the two brown wires (if i remember correctly). the red should be grounded to a nice chassis ground. the yellow should run right to the neg. terminal on the batt. (pos. ground system)
give it a shot & let us know how it goes.
an easy way to see if your stator is making juice is to take the two wires coming out of it, ground one & test the other with a test light. just pull the plugs out & kick it over nice & hard. your test light should glow for a second. switch the wires & it should do the same. if it makes juice its good. then, just make sure the tempannium is wired up good. the stator wires should go to the two brown wires (if i remember correctly). the red should be grounded to a nice chassis ground. the yellow should run right to the neg. terminal on the batt. (pos. ground system)
give it a shot & let us know how it goes.
Running voltage has to be at least 1v higher than the battery voltage (12v battery = 13v when running). Boyers will not work good at less than 12.5v. I test altenators with a 60w light bulb in a fixture. Connect the two output leads to the fixture and fire the bike up. The altenator is an AC device and should light the bulb up. It should be low at idle and get brighter as you increse rpms. If it doesn't light at all or won't get bright at rpms, you have a problem there. If it does work the problem is elsewhere. Remember that your system is Positive ground (red= ground), make sure all connections are good and you have a good clean ground connection. If you use crimp type wire connectors, hold each wire a give it a light pull to make sure it is a good connection. With the bike running your voltage at the battery should range from 13v - 14v. good luck.
Cool... Good ideas. I'll try them all out.
I'm very suspect of the a of the stator and rotor... That would explain (at least to me) why I can't get a reading on my volt meter while the bike is running. if it's not putting out juice, at a constant rate... well you know..
I'm 99% sure that I have it wired correctly... I studied every diagraam I could find and also put a brand new harness in, just so I didn't have to make sense of the rats nest that was there when I started. I did check the connections, but I'll do it again just to be sure.
Hey Wes, I assume the sparx system doesn't suffer from the same issues as the boyer?
Thanks, I'll let you know how I make out.
I'm very suspect of the a of the stator and rotor... That would explain (at least to me) why I can't get a reading on my volt meter while the bike is running. if it's not putting out juice, at a constant rate... well you know..
I'm 99% sure that I have it wired correctly... I studied every diagraam I could find and also put a brand new harness in, just so I didn't have to make sense of the rats nest that was there when I started. I did check the connections, but I'll do it again just to be sure.
Hey Wes, I assume the sparx system doesn't suffer from the same issues as the boyer?
Thanks, I'll let you know how I make out.
i just checked out the sparx site last night. get ready to spend a few bucks. they have a Three Phase 210 Watt Alternator Kit that was recommended to me but, it's like 240$ US.
sorry, forgot the link.. duh.. http://www.sparxelectrical.com/acatalog/SPARX_Alternators.html
I can do a little better on the three phase alternator kit. It works fine with your Boyer, no need to replace the Boyer.
I SUSPECT that the Boyer is NOT the problem here, but it does have the problems because of the weak alternator. Know what I mean? The Boyer is an elec-TRONIC component designed to operate in a certain voltage (and amperage) range. Fall below that range (11.1 or so volts is my experience) and it will begin to fail or not operate properly. This is the banging, farting and spitting, plus bogging when you rev it up. Get the proper voltage to the ELECTRONIC unit and it will operate properly. So here is the paradigm: Stator does not make ENOUGH juice to recharge battery and run lights PLUS take care of the VOLTAGE needs of the electronic component. Lights drain battery slowly, battery drops below 11.1 or so and electronic component begins to fail.
I used to think that it was the smaller batteries with lower amperage that were the problem, but I am pretty sure (as sure as someone can be with the voodoo that is electrical stuff) that the stators and rotors are the weak link.
BTW the Boyer can be wired NEGATIVE or POSITIVE ground.
I SUSPECT that the Boyer is NOT the problem here, but it does have the problems because of the weak alternator. Know what I mean? The Boyer is an elec-TRONIC component designed to operate in a certain voltage (and amperage) range. Fall below that range (11.1 or so volts is my experience) and it will begin to fail or not operate properly. This is the banging, farting and spitting, plus bogging when you rev it up. Get the proper voltage to the ELECTRONIC unit and it will operate properly. So here is the paradigm: Stator does not make ENOUGH juice to recharge battery and run lights PLUS take care of the VOLTAGE needs of the electronic component. Lights drain battery slowly, battery drops below 11.1 or so and electronic component begins to fail.
I used to think that it was the smaller batteries with lower amperage that were the problem, but I am pretty sure (as sure as someone can be with the voodoo that is electrical stuff) that the stators and rotors are the weak link.
BTW the Boyer can be wired NEGATIVE or POSITIVE ground.
I have everything wired for pos. ground... I found it easier to integrate everything to the stock harness without confusing the issue (I'm going to check everything once more though). Wes, I'll shoot you a PM about the sparx kit... sounds like a direction I'd like to go, regrdless of my current issue. I want to just test out scraper's idea first. I'm still a little concerned about not being able to get a voltage reading while the bike is running. Even if the voltage is weak, I'd still be able to get a reading right? Makes me think there is a bad connection or broken wire or SOMETHING. Maybe the rotor/stator did shit the bed???
As soon as I don't get home late from work, I'll try it out and post the results. If you guys think I'm barking up the wrong tree with this running reading thing, let me know.
Thanks
-B
As soon as I don't get home late from work, I'll try it out and post the results. If you guys think I'm barking up the wrong tree with this running reading thing, let me know.
Thanks
-B
Here's a problem I have found in the past - do you have oil in the chain case? If so do you have too much oil? A BSA I bought a few years ago. Showed those same symptoms. What I found was the chain case was carrying a crap load of oil. I got in between the rotor and stator when it was run harder, and messed with the magnetic field. I guess the previous owner put in extra oil to make sure the chain didn't crap up, saying it was stored for 20 years. Drained it out, and within a little time the problem was solved. Proof to a BSA - stored in guys basement 20 years. Pulled it out, changed the engine oil. Kicked it over and the damn thing ran for 2000 miles that summer, through that winter, into the next summer with out fail. Sat for 3 monthes while snow sat on the ground after that, and then went to start up that spring and blew out the whole electrical system. Lucas was into S & M.
Basicly what you experiencing is a weak magnetic field, it could be either as the above, or as previous people mentioned, the stators worn out and just can't produce a stable enough field anymore.
Basicly what you experiencing is a weak magnetic field, it could be either as the above, or as previous people mentioned, the stators worn out and just can't produce a stable enough field anymore.
I'll DEFINATLY check that! I put the oil in personally... I thought I went with the proper amont, but as usual with me, I might have over-done it. Thanks!ol_scratch said:Here's a problem I have found in the past - do you have oil in the chain case? If so do you have too much oil? A BSA I bought a few years ago. Showed those same symptoms. What I found was the chain case was carrying a crap load of oil. I got in between the rotor and stator when it was run harder, and messed with the magnetic field. I guess the previous owner put in extra oil to make sure the chain didn't crap up, saying it was stored for 20 years. Drained it out, and within a little time the problem was solved. Proof to a BSA - stored in guys basement 20 years. Pulled it out, changed the engine oil. Kicked it over and the damn thing ran for 2000 miles that summer, through that winter, into the next summer with out fail. Sat for 3 monthes while snow sat on the ground after that, and then went to start up that spring and blew out the whole electrical system. Lucas was into S & M.
Basicly what you experiencing is a weak magnetic field, it could be either as the above, or as previous people mentioned, the stators worn out and just can't produce a stable enough field anymore.
-B
I just read where you wired the regulator into the stock harness. Since the stock harness had several componets dealing with regulating the current and sending it to the battery. You may have an Open Circuit. That would result in No reading. Try streight wiring the regulator and bypass the stock harness.
i think i have the same problem as you. when i hit the rear brake, clutch in and give a twist of the throttle it starts to sputter like its misfiring. i also have a boyer ignition
i think wes may have solved my problem
i think wes may have solved my problem
a couple of thing to consider, if you order that 200 watt stator it won't work with the Tampanium unit, I think the Tampanium unit is only rated for 120 watts input, you will need to get a higher capacity charge unit, Sparx makes one that is designed to work with a 3 faze 200 watt stator and one for the 180 watt single faze stator. so when you ad in a new charge unit with the rotor/stator you gonna kiss a 3 hundred dollar bill goodbye.
So if you are on a budget you may just get away with a new rotor, usually the magnets go weak after a number of years and the power goes down when the magnets go down, the stator has no moving parts and rarely goes bad unless it get burned by contact with the rotor.
why don't you try a new rotor first and see if that fixes the problem, if not, then you can spend the money for a new stator. and a new stock good working 120 watt charge system works fine with electronic ignitions.
one last thing a modern digital volt meter doesn't work well with these electrical tests because the voltage changes faster than it can register, an old fashion analog meter works the best for this kind of testing. Radio shack still sells them for about $25.
So if you are on a budget you may just get away with a new rotor, usually the magnets go weak after a number of years and the power goes down when the magnets go down, the stator has no moving parts and rarely goes bad unless it get burned by contact with the rotor.
why don't you try a new rotor first and see if that fixes the problem, if not, then you can spend the money for a new stator. and a new stock good working 120 watt charge system works fine with electronic ignitions.
one last thing a modern digital volt meter doesn't work well with these electrical tests because the voltage changes faster than it can register, an old fashion analog meter works the best for this kind of testing. Radio shack still sells them for about $25.
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
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