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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ive been working on my '69 Trump for a while and a few months ago got it started. I bought it full of gunk and crud and crust and initially just rebuilt the top end (new rings, honed jugs, and renewed any washers, rubber and gaskets I could get to). It runs but leaks oil like it shouldnt. I know it will leak some oil but this is alot. Its coming out the breathers and potentially the case split of the bottom end I just cant track all this leak. Ive researched wet sumping (the breather leak) and have done some stuff to mitigate the sump issue but it persists. Ive talked to some folks one who says tear down and rebuild completly to solve these and future problems, the other says keep going in to try and find smaller specifics. Also, I have no idea what state the sludge trap is in and Ive heard thats a doozey if its clogged. Ya'll think I should commit and go down the whole rebuild way, I have some funds but time is my issue, or just pick and choose my issues? I have Wes's DVD to aid, plus some costly tech support at a shop. Thanks
 

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go for it! you have nothing to loose... if you have the ability th do the topend the bottom end isnt much more. you will need some speciality tools (cam gears, pinion, clutch hub).
You will only gain knowledge, plus that motor isnt going to fix itself..
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thats the way Im leaning. I have some tools to use only a short hour away, or I can buy what I need, could easily imagine another build in the future. Its taken the better part of a year to get to where I am now so part of me hates to tear it down to zip lock bag size. Thanks for the imput.
 

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You should be able to stop most of the leaks without rebuilding the motor. Couple things to keep in mind: if the oil tank is over-filled it will blow oil out the oil tank breather; if the rings are not seating properly it will blow some oil out the engine breather. All the other locations (with the exception of the case center joint) can be sealed by removing the cover or whatever, cleaning it and using Yamabond or Hondabond on assembly (Just don't use too much!).
These modern semi-hardening sealers will prevent most all leakage from old bikes.

If it's a low mileage motor or the owners kept the oil clean the sludge trap may not be dirty.

If you can't find the source of the leaks, clean the bottom of the engine then see where it's coming from.
 

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" I bought it full of gunk and crud and crust"
tick~tock! tick~tock! BOOM!
thats the sound of your sludge trap talking to you!
rebuild it and know you got a good engine.......
costly tech support? how much DO you pay for interweb service????
you`ll find the best tech support in the world right here! having a fouraces dvd is great, but having the man, wes, himself weigh in on your biuld is PRICELESS!
not to mention the score of other guys here whom absolutely know their stuff!
 

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You just spent all that time doing the top end, it will all go to waste if that sludge trap is dirty. There is not much effort to take apart the cases and put in a new one, its like a 20 dollar part that will save a whole motor. Do the rebuild, you will not regret it and have not worry about it while you are driving 100 miles away from home that your motor will blow up.
 

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Follow the old advice " while you're down there.... " it would be a shame to do a bunch of work on the top end then have to tear it all down again to address the lower end a short time later. The only reason to skip the lower end is if you're going to sell it, then it would qualify as one of those "totally rebuilt" engines that loses the lower end shortly after the new owner takes possession. Good luck, you won't regret doing the entire engine.
Tombat
 

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Follow the old advice " while you're down there.... " it would be a shame to do a bunch of work on the top end then have to tear it all down again to address the lower end a short time later. The only reason to skip the lower end is if you're going to sell it, then it would qualify as one of those "totally rebuilt" engines that loses the lower end shortly after the new owner takes possession. Good luck, you won't regret doing the entire engine.
Tombat
Ain't that the fuckin truth.
 

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Honestly the lower end really isn't that bad to do. I managed to completely rebuild my '72 650 with no special tools. I think I bought a gear puller set from Harbor Freight and other wise nothing but common tools.
Shouldn't be much to worry about if you have some decent mechanical skills and you'll feel better for it.

Oh yeah, be sure to measure your connecting rod big end bearing clearances instead of just trusting what's marked on the package....ask me how I know.......
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Now im convinced, it really didnt take much: after reading the first "tear it down" reply I went out and got the motor pulled. Thanks for the advice and encouragement, Keep an eye out for my future head scratchers as im sure there will be some...
 

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post some pics during your endeavor...I promise, you WONT be disappointed!
The sense of accomplishment will give you a high like no other!
When you bolt that thing back together, fire it, and stretch that bitches legs.....Let me know! ...I will have a beer poured with your name on it!
 

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Did complete rebuild on my 67 650 and had a similar issue with oil. After rings seated it stopped and have not had a problem since. During breakin it was suggested that I use non detergent oil and then change to reg oil. No probems as of yet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
So Ive been hung up on the tear down because of a lack of clutch puller and other specific tools but met up with a guy an hr north and got some things taken care of. Now Ive run into a problem in the gearbox. My selector fork spindle/rod (think thats what its called) it totally stuck. Vice grips, pliers, heated up and nothing budges. This is keeping a majority of my gears in place. Arent these just supposed to slide out? Its the one with the 'mole' wrench on it. Any ideas?
And here's a pic of the bike and the place I feel safest...
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Crap, Ill try again with the pics...idiot.
One other thing, the spindle is not hung up on the sleeve of the selector fork.
 

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its just plain stuck, rat! yea, they should pull right out, shouda/wouda/couda, huh?
mebbe clamp your mole wrench on like you got it, only vertical, then pull up on the wrench and smack the head of the wrench w/ball peen hammer [down & out] whilist pulling on the wrench....it prolly just needs a good shock to release.....clamp the wrench on as deep as you can,cause the first 1/2" or so goes into the inner tranny cover.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
So that son-of-abitch wont budge. But as I work I'm wondering it it needs to come out? Could I just leave it as is, my main objective of this tear down is the sludge trap, once thats replaced then I'll clean and build 'er back up. Should this really come out? Any other issues with it being stuck in there real good?
 

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Maybe some PB blaster and tap, pound or punch it out from the sprocket side. By the way, one of the best tools I found for rebuilding something unfamiliar is a camera.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I thought about punching it out from the sprocket side but would need to borrow some more tools (socket that f'in big, and an air impact tool), which isnt a real biggie but am further investigating leaving it all in if it wont giveme any troubles in the future. Still not sure.
 
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