Triumph T120 help

26294 Views 103 Replies 25 Participants Last post by sandergecko, Dec 15, 2011

Bobberjim

Discussion Starter · Nov 20, 2011

Im a total newbie with these Triumphs, and have runned into some trouble when it comes to getting mine started. first some info for you guys.

Its a total rebuild from the crankshaft up. so it have never been started before.
It`s a Pazon with battery installation. Negativ ground, 2 carbs system.

I have been trying to get it started the last 2 weekend without any luck
So i would really appreciate some help

im not sure if its a ignition or fuel fail i have but
I have tried the sure fire mode on the pazon and it sparks just fine so im guessing it works as it`s suppose to, but can i have installed the coils wrong if the sparks work? because mine dossen`t say + or - it says 1 and 15, i have installed it with the 15 as +, im i right here?

the last thing im not sure about is my fuel lines, i have a 2 fuel line directly connected to my 2 carbs. nothing in between them, is this possible or do i have to reconnect the fuel lines ?

English isn`t my 1 language, so sorry for my bad spelling.

1 - 20 of 104 Posts

Glider

· #2 · Nov 20, 2011

Try switching the spark plug leads (put the left one on the right cylinder and the right one on the left cylinder).

If it still won't start after switching the plug leads, try squirting some gas directly into the carburetors. If the engine starts and runs for a few seconds, you know the carbs are not working. If nothing happens, you know you have an ignition problem.

Your fuel lines are probably OK. What kind of carbs are on the engine? However, make sure you have gas flowing from the fuel lines when you turn on the fuel. If they are Amals, make sure fuel comes out the ticklers when you when you hold the tickler button down.

Make sure that the ignition timing is correct.

Bobberjim

Discussion Starter · #3 · Nov 20, 2011

Glider said:
Try switching the spark plug leads (put the left one on the right cylinder and the right one on the left cylinder).

If it still won't start after switching the plug leads, try squirting some gas directly into the carburetors. If the engine starts and runs for a few seconds, you know the carbs are not working. If nothing happens, you know you have an ignition problem.

Your fuel lines are probably OK. What kind of carbs are on the engine? However, make sure you have gas flowing from the fuel lines when you turn on the fuel. If they are Amals, make sure fuel comes out the ticklers when you when you hold the tickler button down.

Make sure that the ignition timing is correct.

The ignition timing are set to adwanced, and should be timed correctly. The carbs are Amal 930 models , and if i hold down the ticklers, fuel comes running out of them right away. if i kick it right after i have used the ticklers it backsfires a couple of times (only a single strokes each time) and then nothing again.

so it`s proberly a fuel/carb problem. could the problem be that i have used one fuel line for each carb? and not connected them together as they normally should ?

RetroRob

· #4 · Nov 20, 2011

If its back firing it sounds like timing to me.

RetroRob

· #5 · Nov 20, 2011

RetroRob said:
If its back firing it sounds like timing to me.

Make sure your kill switch isn't grounding out.

sandergecko

· #6 · Nov 20, 2011

It's not you fuel line, if you tickle untill they leak fuel there should be enough fuel in the float bowl to run for a about half a minute.

Have you done any adjustments to the carbs yet??
After my rebuild there was a lot of kicking and swearing before I got the carb right.

Glider

· #7 · Nov 21, 2011

Ignition timing.

"Should be timed correctly." That's not good enough. The timing is correct or it is not correct. It's your bike, you have to know for certain.
It's very easy to set the timing to fire on the exhaust stroke instead of the compression stroke by mistake. Make sure it's firing on the compression stroke. If you don't have a manual you should get one.
If it's a Pazon ignition, set the timing exactly according to the instructions.

Or, take the bike to an expert and pay him to show you how to set and check the timing. It will be money well spent.

I don't think you have a carb problem.

Swan

· #8 · Nov 21, 2011

You will learn quickly that electronic ignitions require a GOOD battery. Test your battery to see if it is putting out more than 12.3 volts while you are trying to start your bike.

Bobberjim

Discussion Starter · #9 · Nov 21, 2011

sandergecko said:
It's not you fuel line, if you tickle untill they leak fuel there should be enough fuel in the float bowl to run for a about half a minute.

Have you done any adjustments to the carbs yet??
After my rebuild there was a lot of kicking and swearing before I got the carb right.

I have adjusted the Air intake to 2.5 turns according to my manual, but even if this is adjusted wrong, it still would run, not any good but still run would it not ?

I have checked the timing at all the dots and lines are perfectly lined up as they are suppose to. but om a little confused because if i take my plugs out i can see the valves are all the way up.

"It's very easy to set the timing to fire on the exhaust stroke instead of the compression stroke by mistake." how do i see if i by a mistake have timed it wrong?

Glider

· #10 · Nov 21, 2011

Easy: Remove both spark plugs and the two tappet covers from either the left or right cylinder. If the bike has a center stand, put the bike on the stand and shift the transmission into 4th gear. If no center stand, just shift it into 4th gear.

Now, bring the pistons up to TDC (Top Dead Center). Turn the rear tire gently with your hand (or if no center stand, slowly roll the bike backwards and forwards) just enough to make the pistons move. If either valve is moving when the pistons are near TDC, that cylinder is on the exhaust stroke. If neither valve moves when you move the pistons near TDC, that cylinder is on its compression stroke, and that's the plug that needs to be firing.
Be careful not to move the pistons too much. You only want to move them an inch or less both before and after TDC. If the bike has a stand, you can use your foot to nudge the wheel forward and backward a little bit at a time.

You can also hold your thumb over the spark plug hole and use the kick starter to rotate the engine until the compression blows your thumb off the hole, but this has to be done carefully or you can go too far.

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Glider

· #11 · Nov 21, 2011

Don't forget, if it's timed right and still pops when trying to start it, switch the plug wires.

You can also try switching the trigger wires to the coils.

Don't feel bad, this is the most common problem on freshly rebuilt Triumphs that won't start.

La Dolce

· #12 · Nov 21, 2011

And if you get it running. 1st thing you do is check that the oil is pumping back to your oil tank and also up to your rocker box feed.. Mine wasn't! I think forcing oil down the rocker feed helped to get my oil pump going.

sandergecko

· #13 · Nov 21, 2011

2,5 turns should be fine, focus on the ignition.

Bobberjim

Discussion Starter · #14 · Nov 21, 2011

Glider said:
Don't forget, if it's timed right and still pops when trying to start it, switch the plug wires.

You can also try switching the trigger wires to the coils.

Don't feel bad, this is the most common problem on freshly rebuilt Triumphs that won't start.

Thanks for all your help im gonna try all you suggestions, just one last Question, What difference does it make to swich the plug wires ? don`t they fire at the same time ? or do i confuse this with the "sure fire mode" the Pazon has?

Rob Axel

· #15 · Nov 21, 2011

OK, check these issues I had with my electronic ignition...
Fully charged battery?
Installed properly (wires from pick-up plate possibly reversed)
Make sure the magnets (rotating on exhaust cam) are NOT contacting the pickup plate.
Good connections, including soldering, good grounds...
also...new plugs CAN be bad!!!

kllrjo

· #16 · Nov 21, 2011

run an .035 wire through the main jets[throttle up] i`v got a bike that will do this all the time! tickle/flow, kick and pop off.....no run......clean the main,tickle and fire right up! the garbage in the new fuel WILL seal your main off! very easy to drop the float bowl plug and run a wire through the jet! if it dont work, you only lost a floatbowl full of fuel!

BobAsh

· #17 · Nov 21, 2011

Bobberjim said:
Thanks for all your help im gonna try all you suggestions, just one last Question, What difference does it make to swich the plug wires ? don`t they fire at the same time ? or do i confuse this with the "sure fire mode" the Pazon has?

No, they don't fire at the same time. They come up at the same time but one is on the compression cycle and one is on exhaust.

Loffer

· #18 · Nov 21, 2011

You can also use a small phillips screwdriver as a tdc tool in the plug behind the head ,rotate wheel until the screwdriver drops in the crank. That is 38* btc on most 650 motors or all of them from what I know. It should coincide with marks on rotor on the primary side if you have one depends on the year motor. Anyway this is thepalce your timing should be on the intake stroke. If its on thw exhaust you can swap the plug wires around. Make sure your slides are open 2.5 turns might be good but open enough so you know gas is going through. Sometimes i have to tickle my carbs after every kick if it doesn't fire the first try,I keep tickling. Check the rotor for contact again as said. Mixture screws at 1.5 turns...

Sounds like your timing is on the wrong stroke to me also.

Glider

· #19 · Nov 21, 2011

Yes, air screws should be 1 1/2 turns out, not 2 1/2 turns out. At 2.5 turns out, especially in winter, it's going to be too lean.

Jack Adams

· #20 · Nov 21, 2011

Unless something has drastically changed,Pazon, like boyer,are a "wasted spark" type EI. And that means it fires both plugs togrther,on compression and exhaust,so swapping plug wires will have no effect. Jack

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