[KCgran]

So I posted this question on another thread earlier, but thought I would start a thread of its own. I intend this to be a thread where people who are thinking outside "the box"( I prefer WAY outside the box) to come and talk/ask about it. Maybe it will take off maybe it won't, and maybe the mods will kill it. We will see.
In my youth I drag raced motorcycles ( Suzuki) with a couple of brothers who were very intelligent and willing to try anything to go fast. In the end we went fast as most, but really didn't discover anything except what Vance and Hines already knew. So I know a little about making internal combustion engines go fast, but wouldn't call myself steeped in it or anything.
The other day I was riding my F/I tuned sportster home from work and considering the best way to get more out of it. A stock F/I sporty has 79 horsepower at redline. The dyno sheet on mine says it hits 80 horse at 2000rpm and carries it to the same redline. And it feels like it. But I would like it to either have a higher redlineor make more horses, or both. So as I was considering bigger cams, valves and Pistons , I thought of Elffors blown 45 build. And thought every blower runs off the output of the motor, what if you spun it off the output shaft of the tranny?
Of course metering the fuel on this ever changing blower ratio would be a problem, and maybe keeping the hearings in the blower shafts. But wow, if you could over come that , you would have one hell of a LSR bike!
Anyway if you have a crazy idea or some input on mine, fire away.
And I know the bike I talked about isn't JJ compliant,( I have two that are) it just happened to be the one I know the numbers on and I was on when I first started thinking about this stuff. Let the games begin.

 

[johnjzjz]

vance and hines cheated everyone and still do i would guess - extreamly smart and used the rule book as a guide to use what was not in it

terry never came back after a run like the rest of us / he stayed fiddling around with the bike at the end of the track and the crew were in no hurry to go get him - as it turns out they were using an additive the fuel check would have picked up on but leaving the cap off it evaporated in 5 to 10 minuets and only a small amount of fuel was actually left

this is what they used - they had smarts not magic well maybe magic

hydrogen propylene

At room temperature and atmospheric pressure, propene is a gas, and as with many other alkenes, it is also colorless with a weak but unpleasant smell.[1]

Propene has a higher density and boiling point than ethylene due to its greater mass. It has a slightly lower boiling point than propane and is thus more volatile. It lacks strongly polar bonds, yet the molecule has a small dipole moment due to its reduced symmetry (its point group is Cs).

Propene has the same empirical formula as cyclopropane but their atoms are connected in different ways, making these molecules structural isomers.

 

[VonWegener]

Some 30 years ago a very close friend of mine bought a flathead powered 27 T roadster. He installed a small block chevy and went some 130 mph at Bonneville.
When he calculated how much it would cost to make enough power to get a record using the Chevy he looked elsewhere. The answer came in form of a then brand new big block Pontiac pro stock engine that was stroked and bored to 500 something inches. He still holds the record at 228 mph I think.
So my answer would be to go as big as you can with the motor and even without crazy tricks it will go fast.

 

[KCgran]

Well, does anyone else have a whole new level of respect for John after that? I know I do, thanks for that, it's a start. And way outside the box. I like it.

 

[joe49]

You are still limited on max boost psi and not running off the engine would lead to problems. Now if you power your supercharger with a variable speed electric motor and have it controlled by manifold pressure that is adjustable. No waiting for turbo lag, no low rpm low boost or high rpm high boost supercharger. Just the boost you dial in.

 

[KCgran]

You are still limited on max boost psi and not running off the engine would lead to problems. Now if you power your supercharger with a variable speed electric motor and have it controlled by manifold pressure that is adjustable. No waiting for turbo lag, no low rpm low boost or high rpm high boost supercharger. Just the boost you dial in.

Now this is interesting, and you wouldn't lose power turning the damn thing either! Of course you would have the negative of the added weight of the electric motor. How powerful an Electric motor would it take to turn it?

 

[KCgran]

Some 30 years ago a very close friend of mine bought a flathead powered 27 T roadster. He installed a small block chevy and went some 130 mph at Bonneville.
When he calculated how much it would cost to make enough power to get a record using the Chevy he looked elsewhere. The answer came in form of a then brand new big block Pontiac pro stock engine that was stroked and bored to 500 something inches. He still holds the record at 228 mph I think.
So my answer would be to go as big as you can with the motor and even without crazy tricks it will go fast.

Of course this is a correct statement that surely everyone will agree with. But crazy ideas are what bring about advancements and going places man has never been before. What John says is true, I'm sure a lot of top performers cheat or skirt the rules in one way or another. The friends I spoke of and myself ran 1175 cc motors and ran with guys running 1475 motors running the same final drive ratios. It drove them crazy cause what they couldn't see was we were running a different ratio on our crank to clutch basket. Made them think we were better tuners than them and really pissed them off!!! Of course since we knew the trick and they didn't, maybe we WERE better tuners!!!

 

[bbillington]

hehe

http://www.electricsupercharger.com/products.html

 

[joe49]

hehe

http://www.electricsupercharger.com/products.html

Interesting. I always thought of a axial fan with it's motor in the air stream for cooling. But the fan being multiple vane like a jet engine to produce more boost.

 

[joe49]

Now this is interesting, and you wouldn't lose power turning the damn thing either! Of course you would have the negative of the added weight of the electric motor. How powerful an Electric motor would it take to turn it?

The other negative is, you don't get anything for nothing, you have to get the power from some were gen, alt or battery. Means more weight plus power to run it from the engine.

 

[little d]

KC,
single throw twin cranks/pistons create a lot of crankcase pressure. I read once about some one using a vacuum pump to not only balance the pressure but to actually pull a vacuum, claiming HP gains. I never perused this but, thought it sounded interesting.

 

[KCgran]

KC,
single throw twin cranks/pistons create a lot of crankcase pressure. I read once about some one using a vacuum pump to not only balance the pressure but to actually pull a vacuum, claiming HP gains. I never perused this but, thought it sounded interesting.

I think I read that some where too, little d. It makes sense in a way, this pressure could cause the engine to work harder on its intake strokes, maybe this would allow you to lighten the fly wheels which would allow the motor to rev faster?
There is a member here who works for SandS parts division or something he hooked me up with some research they had done on ring end gap which the results were contrary to popular belief. I will see if I can find it.

 

[KCgran]

hehe

http://www.electricsupercharger.com/products.html

Wonder why they've been sold out for four years?

 

[farmall]

There was a bike mag (Cycle World?) article on the Hogslayer Norton I read in either the late 1970s or early 1980s mentioning it ran some propylene variant along with another chemical which escapes me. I think the propylene compound was propylene oxide which was likely legal for race at the time since it was openly published.

http://www.pro-system.com/pjames021300.html

Yikes:

http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927240

 

[Larry T]

Propylene Oxide must work. There is a specific rule about it being illegal to run in any NHRA competition. It has been banned since at least 2000, probably earlier. I guess it's right up there with hydrazine.

Some of the NHRA Pro Stock racers used to dump their additive in the oil and then vent the fumes into the air pickup for the carbs. If it's in the oil, it doesn't show up on a fuel check.

 

[VonWegener]

Some of the NHRA Pro Stock racers used to dump their additive in the oil and then vent the fumes into the air pickup for the carbs. If it's in the oil, it doesn't show up on a fuel check.

Now that would qualify as a crazy speed secret

 

[KCgran]

Now that would qualify as a crazy speed secret

Especially if you read the material safety data sheet on the stuff that Farmall posted up.

 

[triumphrules]

KC,
single throw twin cranks/pistons create a lot of crankcase pressure. I read once about some one using a vacuum pump to not only balance the pressure but to actually pull a vacuum, claiming HP gains. I never perused this but, thought it sounded interesting.

I've been doing a mod that drag racers have used called a vacu-pan
you use the air speed in the exhaust to draw any crankcase pressure out.
you put a steel tube in your collector at 45 degrees with a 1 way valve
in case of backfire and you hook a hose to a pcv valve on your rocker box/ crankcase and as your piston normally has to compress any air in your crankcase as it comes down from tdc it uses hp, so with a vacume there it frees up hp

 

[flatman]

I read somewhere that a guy dimpled the intake like a golf ball? for increased turbulence/charge?

 

[gearhead1951]

I caint remember the mans name , but a well known drag racer used to completely screen off his pit area and would scoot into it immediately after a run ! When the officials got around to inspecting his racer they found everything in order ! What he was doing was a complete engine/trans swap on his rail (complete rear subframe) ! The engine he had made the run with was TOTALLY illegal (alloy vlvs good for one run only , NOS hidden in the subframe tubing ect..) Needless to say his crew were very well trained and QUICK !