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Definitively not a Dick Allen. The spring cross brace on the front leg is way too big and the spring rest on the rear legs too thin. The trees top and bottom look like denvers but aren't. Most likely homemade.
I'm definitely not an expert, let's get that out there. And I'm also not trying to argue, just shooting the shit here.

But I had a few thoughts and thought it might be pertinent to bring them up. First, that thing is TIG welded. TIG wasn't something your average guy had access to when that springer was built. Per Irish Rich Ryan, "Dick got tired of breaking extended H-D springers and Indian girders, so he built his own springer to Dick Allen specifications. Solid 4130 chrome moly legs and related components, all TIG (called heliarc back then) welded."

Second, the cross brace on the front end is maybe a little off dimensionally, but were Dick's all the same size? I mentally kinda ruled out Sugar Bear because all of his I've seen have been domed, but these are flat, like some of Dick's.

This is supposedly a DA springer:


That spring rest/top tree looks similar to my eye in terms of thickness. But look at the lower spring rest, I don't even think it's round. Also, the springs are wide-set like Bruce's, even though normally Dick's springs were kissin' cousins.

And then there's this:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_7d3SInnj2hw/SXUwujXiXxI/AAAAAAAAAUs/1T9a3qE-2o8/s1600-h/joe_hurst2.jpg

Note the flat ends on the lower spring mount. (Thanks in advance again to member and all-around awesome guy Irish Rich; I believe those photos came from his blog.) It's on Joe Hurst's "Hustler."

And here's White Bear. Doesn't look too far off to me, but I might be blind.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_7d3SInnj2hw/SXUtfPAVbYI/AAAAAAAAAUk/J3KDmBAv5Kg/s1600-h/joe_hurst3.jpg

But the mount is thicker here. And clearly fabricated. But he didn't always do things that way, apparently. From Irish Rich, "...for every springer Dick built, he used a Harley springer along with it. Dick used the spring perches, springs, rods, and ball sockets from the OEM originals, along with the lower rocker shackle pins and hardware."

Clearly that changed at some point.

Allen's springers are interesting because they varied a lot, at least from what I've seen. His style progressed, he made things differently. It wasn't like AEE, say, who made just a lot of different items. I think Dick learned things and made things better and differently as he learned them. His changed more over the years probably than any other ones out there.

If you open up Bruce's first photo there, you can see the tips of the springer legs. Those look like some of the early Allen stuff I've seen, but later ones used a much prettier socketed fitting on the ends. The tips aren't long like Sugar Bear's were, which made me lean more towards a Dick Allen.

The fact the rockers were missing also sort of made me think it was DA/or Sugar Bear; I don't think those guys made their rockers readily available. They were the secret sauce to the whole springer workin' so well!

I'm not saying I'm right or wrong; mostly just tossing out some of the things I was looking at and thinking about when I mentioned what I said. To Mike's point, there were all these SoCal springer shops and a guy working at one might be at a new place two weeks later, doing things a little differently.

There are enough differences he pointed out that that might be a really nice homemade one, or maybe someone was copping Allen's style in a competing shop, or maybe none of those things.

Another point to Mikey's argument that it's not Dick's is the general construction. Dick built shit fucking heavy. Not ugly or like he didn't care, he just built shit to last... probably what most of us would call overbuilding. Bruce's springer is not what I would call overbuilt.

I just wanted to provide a little background on some of the things I think about when looking these over, and why IDing these things ranges from ("real fuckin' easy" to "could be anything." I also went through this when a buddy built a bike around what we believed was a legit DA springer, but Dick's work exhibited so much variation over the years it's hard to know what is what.
 

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Many good points Liam. But to me Dick Allen was a craftsman with fabrication skills and engineering understanding. There is something you either have or don't have.
I call it the "Eye". Dick had it. The old if it looks right it is right.
I cannot fathom that somebody with "the Eye" would pair a super fat spring bridge with a too thin spring perch. It isn't possible. It's not in that fabricator's DNA.
 

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Right on. Like I said, I was just writing down points I considered in the hopes it may help some future chopperer figure out what he bought at the swap meet.
 

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Hey all. I looked through every working photo in this thread and didn't see quite anything like what I have. Any help on who the maker of this is? It has hexagonal front legs, round rear, 1" stem and a 5/8" axle.
 

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Springer ID

Ok...so I looked through the Springer ID thread and found this one on the 2nd page albeit from 2011,in pieces...no one responded that I could see as to who's they thought it might be and although I have run across one of these at some point,my 64 yr old memory bank doesn't recall things I did last week sometimes...it's solid bar construction with needle bearings on the rockers and has a 7/8th's neck stem...any help appreciated....thought it might work well with the Wayne sportster frame I recently found...
 

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Re: Springer ID

The company Butts Manufacturing was in Bakersfield. I think the owner was Gene Butts and he made fiberglass tanks/fenders, handlebars and the springers. The springers are supposed to be high quality for the late 60s-early 70s. I've seen a few but never owned one. I was told the axle clamps on the rockers were made for jap and brit bikes and othre rockers were made for HD. But don't take that as an absolute truth. We got the catalog at the shop in the early 70s and I saw the ads in the chopper magazines. I don't remember ordering anything from him.
 

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Re: Springer ID

Butts springers specifically, and Butts Mfg more generally, were discussed in a JJ thread within the past 12, maybe 18 months. I know that isn't a very good pointer, but if you're sufficiently curious about Butts (and who isn't?) it may be a little help in searching.

ISTR that the consensus was: Butts springers = very heavy, thick wall (or even solid?), generally overengineered, well made, bulletproof.
 

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Re: Springer ID

thanks for your insight guys..this one had a 7 spoke cast jap wheel on it when I got it,which I still have...the chrome of course was shot,so I blasted it and painted it for the time being...but will probobly powder coat down the road...it does have a a 7/8'ths neck which should fit that Wayne sportster frame a found a couple months back ...it is all solid bar construction...and heavy as hell...but stout as you can imagine..thanks for the "welcome back" wish' Hank,as well,good to be here once more...the 2nd fire back in november of 18 really took the wind out of my sales for a bit.Never thought lightning could strike twice,but here I am... I am slowly rebuilding and collecting once more....got a new pad,and building a new shop,so it's getting better...Thanks also Ratso,for the heads up on that thread..I will see if I can find it....I have always been a fan of knowing where and how things originated...
 

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Broke a mental sweat going through 34 pages..there are a lot of pics missing because of the image hosting company's silliness.i wanted to see if someone can say for sure what this one is.i think its either a sbf or randy's.but I'm just guessing.
 

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Not sure this is the right place for this. I have a vintage girder that came with a pile of parts 40 years ago. No I'd marking anywhere. 7/8" replaceable neck, 31"+/- from the bottom tree to the axle, 4-1/2" wide at the axle, 4-7/8" wide at the neck.
Any clue to the builder or worth?
If someone is interested, pm me. It's been collecting dust and needs a new home.
 

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