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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Okay so Im just about done with the mockup on the build
I have the motor all back together, fluids added etc.

bike is a 1960 xlch 74" stroker motor with a set of P cams

I went through the thread on how to time the motor with the magneto and I did that correctly
Im using a morris magento buzz box so I have it set to exactly when the points are opening,

my magento base has 2 small bolts that lock the mag down, (im guessing there is no adjustment with this right ?

also Im using an S&S Super B carb,
I put it back to factory settings as far as the idle mixture and the throttle screw are concerned (there are no other settings besides the jets correct ?)

I got the pop a few times, and kick back pretty nasty a few times but I cant get it running now,

I went through the timing procedure a bunch of times,
I checked that I am getting spark at the spark plugs and I am getting fuel into the carb
and I have compression in the cylinders
(motor just got a fresh top end job)

any ideas on where I should start to play around with things now,

with regards to rotating the magneto what direction makes it easier (clockwise or counterclockwise ?)
Im just about out of room to turn the mag counterclockwise with the timing set on it

I appreciate any help
Im really looking forward to getting this bike running
to start without kicking back
 

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Whichever way the rotor turns when you kick it (CW, I think), that's the direction you turn it to retard it. Just a little though, and you might want to scribe a mark where it is now so you have a reference.
Try advancing a little, give it a shot, then try a little more, etc.
 

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Looking down at your mag, turning it Clockwise (ass end on the mag closer to the rear jug) is Retarded, this is for starting purposes, some XLs had a Fixed Base, some has the movable base.
go over your timing per the manual and remember the small lobe on the mag shaft represents the front cylinder, also make sure that the pushrods are adjusted properly, too tight and the valves remain open... buy new Spark Plugs, I still prefer Champion J12Y
 

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If you're getting the pops and kickbacks, you're probably close. Are you using the enrichener or not to prime? My initial start up for a Super B and mag is pull the enrichener up, three big compression kicks with the kill switch on(no spark), drop the enrichener, crack the throttle slightly and give it a hard kick with the kill switch off. If it doesn't start, open the throttle a little bit more and give it another kick. Keep opening the throttle a little each kick til it starts. If it doesn't start after 5 kicks, walk away for 5-10 minutes then try it again by just opening the throttle a little and kicking with no enrichener.

As mentioned before, make sure your pushrods are correctly adjusted.

Good luck!

BTW, what jets are you running in the Super B?
 

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You are getting good info from the members here...pushrod adjustment is critical...a little tight and it makes it tough...

.My 65 xlch likes full advance on cold start. I set the timing with cigarette paper....points just starting to open. Try a cold motor,,,,full advance.....small squirt of gas straight into the venture with a squeeze bottle...bring it up on compression.....hold the throttle about 1/8th turn and give it a good kick, being careful not to kick straight legged.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
thanks for the replys guys
i just double checked the timing,
front intake valve pushrod is down, then im setting it where the timing line is in the middle of the hole

I have the cam lobe on the mag set correctly
Im using a morris magneto buzz box tool that beeps when the points start to open (Im not using a morris mag) and I have the mag set to just when the tool starts to beep.

I have a little adjustment on the base of the mag, then its supposed to get locked down with two bolts that slide through the base and the mag,

Ive been playing around with turning it retarded (clockwise) a little at a time and its getting a little better and popping more frequently then before,

Im leaning towards something with the carb,
I think I just have to play around with the carb and get a feel for what it takes to start it

thank for all the quick replys
hopefully I'll have this sorted out by the weekend

Im gonna go back over my pushrod adjustments again tomorrow
 

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Oh, and you probably know but, you have to use solid core plug wires with mags. They'll start with carbon core wires but they don't run with them. I spent an entire weekend chasing that problem down years ago. I'd get to the bottom of the hill and it would die, over and over again. I got my exercise that weekend. :)

Again, good luck.
 

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your gonna have a rough time with no accel pump...i would prime it by holding my hand over the carb for a few kick throughs ..youll be suprised what a load of fuel will do. all mine need a shit ton of fuel to start or youll be there all day.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
went back through the pushrod adjustment,
it was pretty good where it was definitely not too tight at all,

then went back over the timing procedure, it was just slightly off
so I reset it and have it set correctly

then went back through the kicking procedure

I tried priming it with the enrichener up, my hand over where the air cleaner goes (with the petcock on) for 3-5 kicks with the killswitch on

then killswitch off, enrichener down, throttle slightly cracked
it will fire on the first compression stroke kick but it will not stay running at all

This was the best result I got out of every kickstarting procedure that I went through,

again Im using an S&S Super B Carb ( I dont know what the jets are the carb came off of a running 74" shovel motor)
my motor is 74' ( I know its a different motor but it still should be close enough with the jets to get it running right ?)

as far as the carb adjustments I turned the idle mixture screw all the way in ( I did not gorilla it down) and then back about 1 1/2 turns,

for the throttle blade I turned it out so the throttle was closed then turned the set screw 1 1/2 turns and set my cable

does anyone else have any ideas ?

should I be setting the carb up different ?

I also played with the mag moving it a little advance and a little retarded but I just cant get it to stay running,

any other suggestions are greatly appreciated
 

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Sounds like your on the right track. BUT...... When your trying to get a bike going and setting up a new ignition source AND a new carb, you find yourself screwing with BOTH and thats where frustration comes in quick.

Try just messing with ONE at a time. Your timing will take some time to dial in once you get it running, you may need to retard/advance your initial setting. You'll see what I mean when you get it running and are able to rev the motor.

I'd leave the timming where it is/was when it started, and try to give it more gas when it does fire to keep it going. Once you get it running and get it warmed up, you'll find adjustments easier.

Re-check your plug gaps and have some spares handy, you may be fuel fouling them.

Lastly, remember that a carb from a "running" bike may need tweaking even if it's from the same cui bike. Different pipes, cams and internal mods can cause different size jets for a different bike.

Sixball
 

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I think I read everyone's advice but if I missed this one I apologize. Have you checked for proper venting on your gas tank? Sounds simple but it'll have you kicking and tuning everything when all you need to do is pop the gas cap off and let it get some fuel. Don't ask me how I know.
 

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Ralphie,

Sounds like you got a lot of good advice already to get going.

As mentioned, try to remove as many variables from the equation as possible. When setting up a motor with new ignition and carb that haven't already been running on that motor, I like to get the starting working with just the carb screws. That is, keep your hand OFF the throttle and only move the idle mix and speed screws. I don't own a bike with an accelerator pump and they start just fine once setup. Starting without your hand on the grip eliminates throttle plate position and accel pump setting as variables making it that much easier to make a series of small adjustments in other areas and check your results.

I've found with the B and E carbs that turning the idle speed screw IN (opening the throttle) 2.5 turns from just starting to move the plate is ideal. Easier to to start, then adjust down after other adjustments made. These carbs are VERY sensitive to throttle plate position for starting.

If you're getting spit back through the carb, try turning the idle mix screw CCW a quarter turn to enrichen the mix a little. Try. Repeat. Early timing would also cause kick back or spitting back at the carb, but you should nail your timing with buzz box and leave it alone while futzing with the carb.

My stock ironhead motor with stock pipes likes .0265 intermediate and .064 main (super B). The stock shovel I used to run liked .028 and .070. Since you're stroked, you should up these a size or two. Between stock and .029 and .074 is a good starting point.

One problem that plagues Super B carbs is worn out throttle shaft bosses in the carb body. Grab the end of the shaft where the cable pull attaches and wiggle up and down (not in and out toward carb body). Wiggle here allows air past the throttle plate making it REAL tough to start. They can be rebushed if hogged out.

Did you clean the mag points with a points file and set them to .015? Are you running non-resistor plugs set to .025?

Fresh builds can be tough. Tight motor. New variables.

Try to take a methodical approach and make some notes about what you tried and what you observed. When you boil it down, there are two jets, two carb screws, mag point gap, plug gap and mag position to fuck with. The last three you can setup confidently before you start and leave them alone (removing them as variables) while you mess with the first two.

You'll get it.

Jason
 

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I've found with the B and E carbs that turning the idle speed screw IN (opening the throttle) 2.5 turns from just starting to move the plate is ideal. Easier to to start, then adjust down after other adjustments made. These carbs are VERY sensitive to throttle plate position for starting.
Good, Jason typed it all out for me.
I'm B user (shovel) and I think it's a great carb, but that turning in the idle for starting was a critical relevation.
I had the same symptom; one or two pops from the kick, then nothing. Crank up that idle, problem solved.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Jason thanks for the suggestion
I played with the throttle screw and I got it to fire up,
I still think Im gonna go with a carb with an acc pump though,

thanks for everyones help and suggestions

I have a keihin carb I just ordered a rebuild kit Im gonna rebuild it and see how it runs with that on there

heres a vid of it running
 

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Congrats, engine sounds good. Take it for a ride with the B before you switch it out so you can see all the power you lost with the carb swap. :)

See if you can find a "Super Bowl" kit for the B. It adds a Bendix style accel pump to your existing carb.
 

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I have been running super B's for years now too. But they sure are a better carb, with the super bowl, and the response is much more powerful. A little expensive, but well worth it if you want instant response. But then, we all have our own opinions.
 
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