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Back in '72 I was following the magazine articles by the late Randy Smith of "Custom Cycle Engineering". I picked up the recommended HD type SU off a '67 TR4 and got my needle and rebuild parts from Nisinger Motors. I had one of those long banana adapters on the 4 bolt plumber manifold which gave me an almost 13" intake.
I ran 36" drags with lollipops and I had no problems with CH or Honda 750 K4s.
When I say this old 54KHK flathead did 120+, people like to poopoo that under their breath, but the difference between the SU with its manifold against the old M53-A1 and some Sunoco 260 was what it took to get the oomph in the top end that pulled the 23 tooth CS sprocket to that speed.
Easy starting, smooth running and zero leg room. It will run again.

 

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Great informative thread! Thanks
Got an eliminator on my Pan.... what a fine carb it is after yrs with S&S
I would only change it for a Linkert.... maybe

Lester
 

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Great informative thread! Thanks
Got an eliminator on my Pan.... what a fine carb it is after yrs with S&S
I would only change it for a Linkert.... maybe

Lester
Interesting you say that... I have a link.. I may change it for an SU.. but I wan't one with a choke! Only thing is my link is so tucked away it's neat!

Jason, thank you for the info, the old man has 3 HD8? SU's on his 61 Etype.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
As I understand it, the Rivera Eliminator versions are based on HIF models. I know at the time I bought my first one (Elim II) in '98, they were still being made.

I think this one is an earlier Eliminator I. Date stamp shows '93 which sounds about right (but I'm not an expert in these).

Getting any details beyond marketing hype from Rivera about how exactly theirs differ from original is impossible. Want a good laugh? Read this Benefits and Features

They basically take credit for the design and don't point out anything that they've done.

I tried to get some tuning help from their tech years ago and they were pretty useless. Basically "keep fucking with it until it's good". A far cry from the "best carb every built in the history of automotive design!!! 5 min install! Needs no tuning!"

So now they live in my stash ;-0

Ran pretty well on my 74" shovel for a couple years.

Jason

p.s. - send real beer to San Jose. All we have is bitter hipster shit that gets you drunk off a short glass
Rivera Primo is currently defunct. Keep that SU; it's chopper gold, Jason! FYI, I don't think RP made the carbs. SU made them... and still does. They are up and running. RP would just modify them and I think they paid SU to license the name. That ad sounds basically like the old SuperVee ads in the magazines. "Tastes great! Less filling!"

And you say the word and I can get some Generator Cream Ale on the way to you. (In fairness, I like the bitter hipster shit, too. I'm pretty friendly with most beers.)

Tim, that KHK is the bee's knees.
 

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Question guys.. if I get a 1 1/2 SU off a car how much work is it to adapt to fit on my panhead? except the obvious like needle etc will it bolt on and work?
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Question guys.. if I get a 1 1/2 SU off a car how much work is it to adapt to fit on my panhead? except the obvious like needle etc will it bolt on and work?
I'm not sure if a 1 1/2" is the way to go, personally... the 1 3/4" seems to be the popular way to fly. But maybe it would have better low-end pullin' power.

You'll need either an adapter for your 4-bolt manifold to an SU bolt pattern or a plumber's manifold made for SU. You'll want to consider total length; a bent manifold may give you leg and tank clearance if you don't have it.

You'll need to rig up some way to work the throttle shaft.

And you'll need to rework your fuel line some.

And then all you need to do is tune it...
 

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I'm not sure if a 1 1/2" is the way to go, personally... the 1 3/4" seems to be the popular way to fly. But maybe it would have better low-end pullin' power.

You'll need either an adapter for your 4-bolt manifold to an SU bolt pattern or a plumber's manifold made for SU. You'll want to consider total length; a bent manifold may give you leg and tank clearance if you don't have it.

You'll need to rig up some way to work the throttle shaft.

And you'll need to rework your fuel line some.

And then all you need to do is tune it...
Thanks Liam, Because I have a 1 1/2 link I assumed was the way to go, but they come off Austin mini which is 1000CC so makes sense. It's not a massive diff I guess!

mmm I wonder can you adapt an S&S intake for it?
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Or just buy the Linkert SU adaptor or the Pan/SU intake... neither is particularly hard to come by or very expensive.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Let's dig up a golden oldie.

Is a chopper ever really "finished?"

Probably not. So after I sat down and got this carby running just right, I really only had one problem: the choke. Or, more specifically, the lack of one.

Sure, the Rivera Primo units have the tickler thinger on the side, but that was a later model carb than what would have been used when my bike was built. The Rivera Primo (coughSUcough) unit with the fast idle cam and such didn't really show up until the Evo days.

The choke on the XKE this carb came from would have been (I think) in the air horns somewhere. I don't have those; in fact any air cleaner beyond this little Hellings & Stellings pancake that came on it bumps the knee, and running it with nothing means my pants turn off my motorcycle.

So to start this thing, the process involved carrying a wrench in the pocket, removing the air cleaner, putting on a glove to prevent stinkyfingers, and then manually choking the old girl, whilst leaning it over to the right so the fuel could flow into the jugs.

Not ideal.

But it ran so dang good! I believe I have hit upon a pretty easy choking solution for someone wishing to run the early version of this carb in a low-clearance scenario. I have installed a small fitting at the end of my fuel overflow hose, like yay:



I turn on my fuel, and then use a bulb from a sphygmomanometer (blood pressure thingy) to pressurize the bowl and basically flood the carb. Pop it on, give it a few squeezes, and start kickin'.



Some fuel goes back up into the tank, but some goes into the carby, giving the ol' girl a little sniff of fuel. It's effectively a pneumatic version of the tickler SU later used.

I'm still playing around with it, but I just started the thing this way in a 45° garage after about three months. It's still a bit hokey, but now I'm not using tools every time I need to fire up the bike.

Maybe that helps someone having a similar problem.
 

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You can lean the bike to the right to get a rich condition, then upright and start it. Not a tickler pushing the float down, but gets more gas in the float bowl and that enrichens the mixture.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
You can lean the bike to the right to get a rich condition, then upright and start it. Not a tickler pushing the float down, but gets more gas in the float bowl and that enrichens the mixture.
From a practical standpoint, I can tell you that has never worked for me.

But I am interested in learning what I may be missing from a theoretical one. I believe a tickler only works on the HIF versions of these because as the fuel overfills the bowl, the top of the bowl is the floor of the carb. Fuel floods the throat.

On an HD-style carb like I am using, the bowl is offset. If you were to depress the float, some fuel may enter the carb, but I believe an equal amount would run out of the overflow pipe. That's actually why I chose to pressurize from the overflow...fuel can go to either the feed line or through the jet seat.

Am I misunderstanding something? Leaning from side to side has only ever worked for me if there's fuel present and ready to run into the manifold. In fact, when I had the correct cylinder heads on this, I gave serious thought to installing and using the factory fuel cups for starting.
 

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Anything that raises fuel level in bowl enrichens the mixture. Your idle circuit with the throttle closed draws more fuel. Also the tipping till fuel over flows gives you the most you can get in the bowl. By the way this is a common dirt bike trick. I've done it for a very long time, and still do.
 

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This will be a semi-useless comment relative to the root of the hard starting issue. But dear god, you've rigged up a fuel hose with an extra valve, so you can use an enema pump that you have to carry around to start the bike.

Why not just carry a little pocket can of starting fluid?

Then you were thinking of machining the cups in the heads? how about a single 3/16" nipple in that manifold adapter with a rubber cap (like VOEs fitting), and then just upcap it and squirt a little gas or starting fluid in when you need to.

Easier yet, drill a 1/8" hole in the center of the air cleaner, and stick the spray can's straw in the hole. I realize this sounds obtuse, but it's not. I totally get the idea of not changing a bike like that, and finding ways to make it work as-is. But if you're attaching hoses and weird stuff to it, then I think it's time to re-think what you're trying to accomplish vs. preserve. Frankly I'd do just as you are (i.e. put up with alot of a bike's idiosyncracies), it's just that I'd consider a squirt of ether alot more practical than any other crazy option. I'd consider starting fluid period correct too.

All that said, I'd love to see you find an even more practical/organic solution, but unless you add a choke or tickler, I don't see a practical solution. I think this is a perfect example of the reason why those those things came along later (like the addition of the tickler on the SU): things exist because there was a need.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
This will be a semi-useless comment relative to the root of the hard starting issue.
The bike's not really a hard starter, it just needs its mix richened like every other ICE on the planet.

you can use an enema pump that you have to carry around to start the bike.
I can use an enema pump (as Ratso said) to mystify onlookers and shock friends. Who knows, maybe one of those cool guys on Instagram will pick it up and having a rubber horn bulb becomes the "in" accessory of '21 and I become very chopular!

Why not just carry a little pocket can of starting fluid?
Carrying a rubber bulb or a can of starting fluid seem about equally inconvenient to me. Both trump carrying around a wrench, because the wrench requires significantly more time to use to start the bike.

Then you were thinking of machining the cups in the heads?
The factory thoughtfully machined them for me. I toyed with the idea of installing the factory priming cups in place of the factory plugs, but once I got the fancy heads on there, that idea sort of took a back seat.

All that said, I'd love to see you find an even more practical/organic solution, but unless you add a choke or tickler, I don't see a practical solution.
I would too. This was easy, cheap, and completely reversible. I've monkeyed with some choke designs, but haven't settled on anything I like so far. A tickler in the conventional sense is out for the same reason joe49's "tip it over" suggestion doesn't work: the bowl is remote. The fuel rides shotgun, it doesn't sit under the throat.

I think this is a perfect example of the reason why those those things came along later (like the addition of the tickler on the SU): things exist because there was a need.
Amen. And if wishes were wings, Mr. Frog wouldn't bump his ass on the ground. But I don't have one of those later SUs, and if I did, I wouldn't fit it anyway because that's not what belongs on the bike.
 

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"A tickler in the conventional sense is out for the same reason joe49's "tip it over" suggestion doesn't work: the bowl is remote. The fuel rides shotgun, it doesn't sit under the throat."

FWIW, on pre-monobloc Amals, the bowl on the side has a tickler.
 

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Tickler or lean is about raising the fuel level in the float bowl. The result of which is the mixture enrichens.
to add: Fuel coming out of a over flow when leaned over, is how you know it is doing the job.
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
Maybe I'm a bit stupid, then. Tipping this bike to either side does not assist in getting it started.

A float bowl with a tickler for SUs exists. Maybe I'll see if I can't scare one up.
 

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Have you leaned the bike far enough to get the gas coming out of the over flow. Then throttle closed to do prime kicks. As you say your bike may not respond to this, but be assured many do.
 

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As another thought you can make a simple plate adapter with a butterfly to mount between the carb and air cleaner. 3/8'' or 1/2'' thick is all it would need to be. Pirate a butterfly at or slightly smaller then the carb bore at the air cleaner end, from another carb.
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
Well, you guys were right. Carrying my poop pump was annoying. As it turns out, every car SU I have found has the casting for a tickler. (Why? Who the fuck would tickle multiple carbs on a car under the hood?!)

So I ordered a tickler, drilled the casting, and tried out my newest way to make my finger stinky. Open throttle, depress tickler, tip bike to the right.

Only tried it once last night, but she fired right up. I may have finally gotten this shit licked.

272323
 
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