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Discussion Starter #1
I had a former thread on a Magneto issue. I have a SS 93" sidewinder panhead kit on Delkron cases. My last morris magneto lost its charge and the engine would not start. I just installed the new one and can not get it to start.
I have timing marks F R and F:R. I have tried F and F:R marks and with buzz box set the magneto. The most i could get is a sputter and small back fires. Anyone have any ideas on what I am doing wrong. Prior to this the bike ran and started easily. I know I don't have any other issues. I have attached a picture of setup. I am also getting spark at plugs and fuel.
 

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I've personally never had S&S flywheels.

Few questions:

is your mag fixed? if so you'll want it locked at full advance.

You need to get the front cylinder on compression stroke roughly 35 Degress BTDC. Points cracking at the same time, plugs gapped to 15 thou. I'm sure you know all this, but make sure you're on compression stroke.

I always time mine static, I'm sure others will chime in with how you should, preferably where your markings are in correlation. The "F" front cylinder, I presume may take the same format so you'll want it right in the window.
 

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F is the mark you should be using for S&S wheels, I believe.

I wonder if your mag bench tests OK, but just doesn't work in that bike. This exact thing happened to a friend. Pan with a magneto that went back to Morris and passed with flying carpets...and the damn bike would absolutely not start.

Pop in another mag, bike fired right up.

I may be insulting you, but how are you checking for compression? I always used the thumb in the plug hole trick...until it fucked me at some point. Go by the pushrod method specified in the manual just to be safe if you aren't doing it that way.

And you're using the little lobe, right? Being 180 out would give the results you are getting. My apologies if you know this.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Trust me i am not offended at all. So tonight I tried the straw method and measured 7/16 before the piston was at DTC. The F mark was in the window and exactly matched(I was a little surprised on the accuracy). I was a little surprised and I reset the magneto(small lobe) and it sputtered a few a times for a about 1-2 seconds. I tried advanced and turning retard on the magneto and nothing. I also checked and both pushrods turned freely at the F mark. My only idea now is could I have it 180 degrees off?? Perhaps I got a bum magneto somehow? I am really puzzled right now.
 

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Are you able to get magneto to try??

It sounds to me like it's somehow earthing itself. But as you mentioned, you isolated the kill stud to make sure. It may be worth doing now you know the internals are all in tip top shape. For piece of mind...

If you can get another working mag, use it to check.. if it's the same results we then atleast know it's not the mag..
 

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I always used the thumb in the plug hole trick...until it fucked me at some point. Go by the pushrod method specified in the manual just to be safe if you aren't doing it that way.
sorry for derailing the thread, but... more details on how it fcked you please?

reason for asking is, I have always, always used the pushrod method, but kind of got fed up with doing that all the time and lately (over the last year) now always go by the thumb method till I feel it hissing.... or sometimes I use a cork on it and wait for it to pop and fly out.
I even use the finger or cork on my car these days.

Thought would be a pretty flawless method, after all, you do feel the compression. interested on your experience.

I do go back to the pushrod method if for some reason I don't get an easy start and need double checking.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
When i get home next week I will removed the magneto and do a bench test with a power drill and make sure I'm getting adequate fire. Perhaps I have a bad condenser or coil. Long shot but maybe its not getting a good spark.
 

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When i get home next week I will removed the magneto and do a bench test with a power drill and make sure I'm getting adequate fire. Perhaps I have a bad condenser or coil. Long shot but maybe its not getting a good spark.
Unless there's something very very strange going on... good spark on the bench = good spark in the motor. I find new condensers to be utter shite. The old fairbanks morse ones which are probably 40+ years old outlast all the new tripe.

Coils can and do die. Again fairbanks just as good as it gets. I often see lots of oem fairbanks nos coming up on various sites, worth keeping an eye. I have a load in my stash.
 

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Rhysmort: I find new condensers to be utter shite. The old fairbanks morse ones which are probably 40+ years old outlast all the new tripe
I second that... Best buy std radio condensers if you really have to.

I dismember old condos and fit the tiny radio ones inside plus epoxy filler and solder...



Average value, it varies between manufacturers, is anything between 100 nanofarads and 250 nanofarads for magnetos.

I would also try new sparkplugs... You never know, yours might be the new resistive type that only works with electronic ignitions.

Patrick
 

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Okay so tonight I removed it and tested it by hand cranking and power drill. It had a great blue spark between posts(springs). I also hooked up the spark plug wires and connected the spark plugs together. I had a nice blue spark on each spark plug. Also rechecked the timing and it was spot on again. I tried kicking over and nothing. I am really puzzled by this as this bike ran perfect until the day it shut off when magneto failed. I am starting to wonder did the original magneto fully fail or is there another problem I am not seeing. I had zero problems kicking this bike and starting before the magneto failure. Any ideas guys?
 

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Okay so tonight I removed it and tested it by hand cranking and power drill. It had a great blue spark between posts(springs). I also hooked up the spark plug wires and connected the spark plugs together. I had a nice blue spark on each spark plug. Also rechecked the timing and it was spot on again. I tried kicking over and nothing. I am really puzzled by this as this bike ran perfect until the day it shut off when magneto failed. I am starting to wonder did the original magneto fully fail or is there another problem I am not seeing. I had zero problems kicking this bike and starting before the magneto failure. Any ideas guys?
Silver,

If it's got a good spark, it can only be two other things, fuel & timing.

Well 3 if we allow for human error(sorry I don't mean it in a rude manner)

Check the fuel is getting to the pots, if the plugs are bone dry, you have a fuel issue if the plugs are getting wet, then it has to be timing. You' could very likely be 180 out.

It's very easily done, and it will replicate being timed correctly. As my old man always used to say, if it's got a spark and fuel it's gotta go bang.
 

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We've tested for an intake leak?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I have not and that is next on the agenda to do. I am starting to think the reason it shut down was not magneto related. Even though my magneto was very weak I am starting to think it was not the main problem. Thx prior guys and if I can not get it I will drive it up tp DRAGSTEWS shop for repairs.
 

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I have not and that is next on the agenda to do. I am starting to think the reason it shut down was not magneto related. Even though my magneto was very weak I am starting to think it was not the main problem. Thx prior guys and if I can not get it I will drive it up tp DRAGSTEWS shop for repairs.
Even as Liam has mentioned with intake leaks, it will still run, albeit rough. It still in my humble opinion sounds like you're 180 degrees out.. with everything else as is, even with an intake leak, it will still fire. When it's 180 out it just puffs and farts.
 

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Even as Liam has mentioned with intake leaks, it will still run, albeit rough. It still in my humble opinion sounds like you're 180 degrees out.. with everything else as is, even with an intake leak, it will still fire. When it's 180 out it just puffs and farts.
No, that is incorrect.

I've personally seen and repaired bikes with intake leaks that will not start.
 

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No, that is incorrect.

I've personally seen and repaired bikes with intake leaks that will not start.
Liam, I don't dispute it, but bikes with intake leaks will also still run correct? The gents bike was running and suddenly stopped, which would leave me to believe unless something major happened, the bike should still run?

Of course, you're totally right, if it was a major air leak, no bueno. But from running fine to nothing? maybe.. I'm sticking with the timing is off!
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I am sounding like a broken panhead but next week when I get home I will reset timing. I am going to remove carb and give it a good look. Also ordered the FNA TITe Seal kit for intake manifold. I will check pushrod adjustment and instal a brand new set of plugs. IF it does not start I will set it 180 degrees off and try that. If that fails I am taking it to dragstews. I appreciate all the suggestions so far guys.
 

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don't just Blindly turn the mag 180 degrees as has been suggested, That kind of shit will get you nowhere,
if you need to re time it, or check it is correct or not,
lift the front cylinder push rod tubes up, hold up with bailing wire
remove spark plugs & timing plug.
gently push through on the kick start, or by leaving in 3rd gear as you turn the rear wheel when jacked up, until BOTH front tappets go down, showing you the start of the compression stroke on the FRONT cylinder.
gently tap it forward to the timing point,
shown by a degree wheel on the crank, or as you have, by measuring
at 7/16 btdc with the use of a piston height gauge through the plug hole,
the point the narrow lobe of the cam should be about to open the points,... BUT, IF the wide lobe is about to open the points & ONLY then, you will see if you are 180 degrees out or not,
Magnetos rarely go wrong unless you do something wrong, you need to know how & why a magneto works, not guess at it,
also remember when running, they give a great spark & the higher the rev's, the greater the spark, BUT at kicking speeds, the spark can be weaker & a faster kick may be needed to start,
my shovel has 9.5:1 comp pistons & my hips need replacing, so I am unable to kick mine fast enough to start it now, (old age is a Fucker). but one press of the starter & it fires up straight away & runs spot on,
so I know, that I was the starting problem, NOT the magneto.
good luck & I'm sure you will beat it,
 

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don't just Blindly turn the mag 180 degrees as has been suggested, That kind of shit will get you nowhere,
if you need to re time it, or check it is correct or not,
lift the front cylinder push rod tubes up, hold up with bailing wire
remove spark plugs & timing plug.
gently push through on the kick start, or by leaving in 3rd gear as you turn the rear wheel when jacked up, until BOTH front tappets go down, showing you the start of the compression stroke on the FRONT cylinder.
gently tap it forward to the timing point,
shown by a degree wheel on the crank, or as you have, by measuring
at 7/16 btdc with the use of a piston height gauge through the plug hole,
the point the narrow lobe of the cam should be about to open the points,... BUT, IF the wide lobe is about to open the points & ONLY then, you will see if you are 180 degrees out or not,
Magnetos rarely go wrong unless you do something wrong, you need to know how & why a magneto works, not guess at it,
also remember when running, they give a great spark & the higher the rev's, the greater the spark, BUT at kicking speeds, the spark can be weaker & a faster kick may be needed to start,
my shovel has 9.5:1 comp pistons & my hips need replacing, so I am unable to kick mine fast enough to start it now, (old age is a Fucker). but one press of the starter & it fires up straight away & runs spot on,
so I know, that I was the starting problem, NOT the magneto.
good luck & I'm sure you will beat it,
Well said, I should have probably gone into more detail, I made an assumption he may have timed his bike prior so didn't. The 7/16th from piston TDC is how I always do mine.
 

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Liam, I don't dispute it...
...and yet you go on to dispute it. Remember this? I'd argue you're not at all the person to give advice on intake leaks. Not even a little, in fact.

A bike with an intake leak can run perfectly fine and then not start again. The last intake leak I diagged and repaired actually exhibited exactly this symptom. Ran fine, then would not restart.

OP may have a timing issue or not. He may have an intake leak or not.

Giving a faulty assessment of symptoms of a problem you can neither diagnose correctly nor repair is not helpful.
 
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