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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all,
I have a 1942 U project on the go and have purchased a new aftermarket 12 volt generator. The generator does not have the drive pin hole in the shaft for the drive gear. When I mount the gear on the shaft the nut bottoms out against the shaft where the splines begin but the gear floats back and forth on the splines about a 1/4 inch. How would I hold the gear in the correct position on the shaft? Thanks for the advice.
 

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Odd setup here. The U generator was a non splined gear, and should be a 14 tooth. The generator you have is for a splined gear, and not set up for the smooth bore gear that came on the U generator. So, you need to find a 14 tooth gear, with splines and long enough to reach the idler gear in the cam chest, without being so long it hits the outer cover. I am not sure there is a aftermarket setup for this alteration, short of using a 37 to 57 UL/45 gear. The original was a smooth bore, with a backing clutch set up, like a kicker gear, with a spring to hold them pressed together. So, this will be a try and succeed/fail operation, until you find the right setup. Of course, I am guessing at what parts you have. But not guessing on what it should be. And a alternative you don't want to go to, is finding a 32E 6 volt generator. Expensive, and impossible to find, and 6 volt to boot. So, post more about what you have, and even photos, because the saying is, a picture is worth a thousand words. Saves typing. Maybe some one who has done this swap over will chime in.
 

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From Cycle Electric:

The two brush and three brush generators use different oil deflectors. The oil deflector prevents too much oil from getting on the ball bearing. On two brush models it also sets the location of the gear.

Since the gear is pined in place on the three brushes, the oil deflector has a spring between it and the bearing to hold it up against the gear.

The oil deflector used on two brush generators has a built in collar. The gear is drawn onto the shaft with a nut until it pinches the oil deflector tight against the inner race of the ball bearing. This sets the location of the gear and locks the armature in place.

When changing from a three brush to a two-brush generator do not use the old oil deflector and spring. Use Harley Davidson part #31035-58.

On three brush generators the gear is held on with a roll pin. These gears have a hole for the roll pin. On a two brush generator the gear is held on with a nut. The gears are the same except for the roll pinhole. Ether gear can be used on the two-brush generator. The three-brush generator needs gears with the pinhole.

Generator gears have ether 13 or 14 teeth. All models used 14 tooth gears through 1957. 1958 to 1969 Panheads and Shovelheads used a 13-tooth gear. The gear mesh on 1957 and earlier models is adjustable. It may be possible to use a 13-tooth gear if the proper gear mesh can be achieved. This will increase the low speed generator output by 66%. See shimming and strapping.

All of the 45’s, K models and Sportster use a 14-tooth gear. 45’s require a built in slinger. The timing covers on the 45’s have a spring-loaded brass breather that rides on the end of this special gear.

Police models came with fan-cooled generators. These generators have a large squeal cage fan attached to the commutater end of the generator. Fan cooled generators use a special ratchet gear. The ratchet is built in to take excessive stress off the timing gears during over revving situations. When replacing a fan cooled unit with a generator that is not fan cooled use a standard gear.

It is best to reuse the original gear when ever possible. Finding a good aftermarket gear can be difficult. The gear must be a press fit on the shaft. A loose fitting gear will wear the shaft out.

The three-brush generator mounts with ¼ 24 bolts. The two brush generator mounts with 5/16 24 bolts. There are two methods to mount a two-brush generator on 1957 and earlier motors. One is to enlarge the mounting holes in the engine case to fit the larger 5/16” bolts. The second method is to use helicoils to reduce the 5/16-24 threads in the mounting holes down to ¼-24 and use the stock bolts. I recommend using the ¼-24 bolts then shimming and strapping.
 

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Not necessarily HD, but yes, a special thread. You can find the taps and dies, but the bolts and nuts are a little harder, if anywhere. If you need them for a Harley, the aftermarket sellers offer some of the stock bolts and nuts, like for the oil pump and tappet blocks.
 

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1/4-24 is the stock thread, so if your cases have the larger holes and you helicoil it, the helicoils are already 1/4-24, if I remember right.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
From Cycle Electric:

The two brush and three brush generators use different oil deflectors. The oil deflector prevents too much oil from getting on the ball bearing. On two brush models it also sets the location of the gear.

Since the gear is pined in place on the three brushes, the oil deflector has a spring between it and the bearing to hold it up against the gear.

The oil deflector used on two brush generators has a built in collar. The gear is drawn onto the shaft with a nut until it pinches the oil deflector tight against the inner race of the ball bearing. This sets the location of the gear and locks the armature in place.

When changing from a three brush to a two-brush generator do not use the old oil deflector and spring. Use Harley Davidson part #31035-58.

On three brush generators the gear is held on with a roll pin. These gears have a hole for the roll pin. On a two brush generator the gear is held on with a nut. The gears are the same except for the roll pinhole. Ether gear can be used on the two-brush generator. The three-brush generator needs gears with the pinhole.

Generator gears have ether 13 or 14 teeth. All models used 14 tooth gears through 1957. 1958 to 1969 Panheads and Shovelheads used a 13-tooth gear. The gear mesh on 1957 and earlier models is adjustable. It may be possible to use a 13-tooth gear if the proper gear mesh can be achieved. This will increase the low speed generator output by 66%. See shimming and strapping.

All of the 45's, K models and Sportster use a 14-tooth gear. 45's require a built in slinger. The timing covers on the 45's have a spring-loaded brass breather that rides on the end of this special gear.

Police models came with fan-cooled generators. These generators have a large squeal cage fan attached to the commutater end of the generator. Fan cooled generators use a special ratchet gear. The ratchet is built in to take excessive stress off the timing gears during over revving situations. When replacing a fan cooled unit with a generator that is not fan cooled use a standard gear.

It is best to reuse the original gear when ever possible. Finding a good aftermarket gear can be difficult. The gear must be a press fit on the shaft. A loose fitting gear will wear the shaft out.

The three-brush generator mounts with ¼ 24 bolts. The two brush generator mounts with 5/16 24 bolts. There are two methods to mount a two-brush generator on 1957 and earlier motors. One is to enlarge the mounting holes in the engine case to fit the larger 5/16" bolts. The second method is to use helicoils to reduce the 5/16-24 threads in the mounting holes down to ¼-24 and use the stock bolts. I recommend using the ¼-24 bolts then shimming and strapping.
Thanks for your informative response. I have gear #37071-37 with the oil slinger as I have on my 45. You are saying the generator I have will function correctly with gear #30173-63 and deflector #31035-58? Or can I use my gear with the deflector #31035-58? I know about the different mounting bolt issue.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Odd setup here. The U generator was a non splined gear, and should be a 14 tooth. The generator you have is for a splined gear, and not set up for the smooth bore gear that came on the U generator. So, you need to find a 14 tooth gear, with splines and long enough to reach the idler gear in the cam chest, without being so long it hits the outer cover. I am not sure there is a aftermarket setup for this alteration, short of using a 37 to 57 UL/45 gear. The original was a smooth bore, with a backing clutch set up, like a kicker gear, with a spring to hold them pressed together. So, this will be a try and succeed/fail operation, until you find the right setup. Of course, I am guessing at what parts you have. But not guessing on what it should be. And a alternative you don't want to go to, is finding a 32E 6 volt generator. Expensive, and impossible to find, and 6 volt to boot. So, post more about what you have, and even photos, because the saying is, a picture is worth a thousand words. Saves typing. Maybe some one who has done this swap over will chime in.
Thanks for your reply. I have the oil slinger gear as I have on my 45. I want to stick with 12 volts so I will need a different gear setup I guess.
 

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Thanks for your informative response. I have gear #37071-37 with the oil slinger as I have on my 45. You are saying the generator I have will function correctly with gear #30173-63 and deflector #31035-58? Or can I use my gear with the deflector #31035-58? I know about the different mounting bolt issue.
On my ULH, I run gear #30173-63 and deflector #31035-58, no shim, no strap, and no problems, knock on wood.

The Cycle 'Lectric direx are geared to OHV models. On my OHV that I converted, I used the 13T #31070-58. If you can't get the right lash on that (and you should be able to), use the 14T #31073-63A. Both require use of deflector #31035-58; the early one from the 32E doesn't clear the genny body.

Does that help?
 

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Hi all,
I have a 1942 U project on the go and have purchased a new aftermarket 12 volt generator. The generator does not have the drive pin hole in the shaft for the drive gear. When I mount the gear on the shaft the nut bottoms out against the shaft where the splines begin but the gear floats back and forth on the splines about a 1/4 inch. How would I hold the gear in the correct position on the shaft? Thanks for the advice.
Poweraythor 32E .....40 amps Denso alternator to replace the oem generator for those who want reliability ,ask «Sarge » about his units on his bikes ,he rodes a UL ,Ray







 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Poweraythor 32E .....40 amps Denso alternator to replace the oem generator for those who want reliability ,ask «Sarge » about his units on his bikes ,he rodes a UL ,Ray







Thanks. Great photos. My generator does not have the drive pin hole. I will try the gear and deflector as suggested in an earlier post.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
On my ULH, I run gear #30173-63 and deflector #31035-58, no shim, no strap, and no problems, knock on wood.

The Cycle 'Lectric direx are geared to OHV models. On my OHV that I converted, I used the 13T #31070-58. If you can't get the right lash on that (and you should be able to), use the 14T #31073-63A. Both require use of deflector #31035-58; the early one from the 32E doesn't clear the genny body.

Does that help?
Yes it does. Thanks. I have ordered the gear and deflector. Will post an update when done.
 
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