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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I thought I could do it, but it ended up just being too much for me. The bike has basically NO electrical system, The mechanical issues are way over my head and ability, (much more extensive than I thought when I bought it). Having wrenched on Honda's and Harley's for years has not prepared me in the least for dealing with the devious British bike designers :cool:. Looking at and reading the parts manuals and schematics, and actually looking at the bike it's like two completely different animals, plus the modifications the previous owner made to the bike (its a cafe racer) have thrown a lot of things in the manuals right out the window. So I think I'm just going to hand this off to a professional, I've heard some good things about a place down in Rhoadsville, Va that does excellent work on brit bikes. As much as I would have liked to have done this all myself, I just have to be man enough to admit when I can't hack it. the good thing is that I'll know I'll have a solid reliable and safe (as safe as a cafe racer can be anyway) bike, when I get it back. And when all that is done, I can work on the mods that I CAN do. I hate to give up on any project, I think my Honda CB360 took a couple of years off my life, and I KNOW my Harley did. well there it is, BSA-1 me-0. for now.
cheers
mike
 

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British workshop and parts manuals are guidelines. Brit pushrod singles are fairly simple. What problems are you having?
 

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there is no shame in getting help that you pay for - a lot of guys on here are so good they make everything look simple - sometimes it is - sometimes it isn't - most decent guys will be happy to explain to you what they do to make your bike run - i need someone to show me -i don't get it when i read it either - so you find a good guy and pay to get it done - it sucks when you have to pay when you want to do it yourself but maybe you are paying for a little knowledge also
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
thanks for the words of encouragement, no the bike did not run before I bought it, but I was assured all it needed was a few tweaks.

the main mechanical issues are the cam plate, and the shifter quadrant both need to be replaced, and i cant see any way to get that second cover off. believe me I tried for hours. i took every bolt out and a few other things that were in the way. there is some trick to it I'm sure. but by that time I was just done in.

not to mention when i took the cover off the kickstart spring went "sproinggg" and ended up in a tree. I have no idea how that goes back on.

numerous oil leaks, a very strange oil feed to the rocker box coming from the front (the rear oil feed is blocked off with a bolt wedged into it). the clubman type (some off brand) bars are too fat for the exhaust lifter assembly, so I had to mount it to the frame next to the battery, we'll see how well that works in practice.

it has aftermarket forks from a Honda CR-250 which is nice due to the disc brake, however (i'm guessing this is the reason) it has no speedo cable. and the tachometer cable is missing as well. the area where the tach would enter the crankcase is blocked off. I'm guessing the internals are missing as well.

when I say there is no wiring i mean pretty much that. no sensors for brake lights, nothing for neutral light, no switches at all on the handlebars, no high beams, or horn. nothing. there is a wire to the headlight and two wires to the tail light. there also is a black box with what appear to be cooling fins on it and a bunch of short wires coming out of that. I think that might be a voltage regulator? but it has no name or part number.

oh, and the brake rod I ordered off of ebay is 2-3 inches too short. in fact all of the brake rods are about 19-20 inches, for some strange reason mine needs to be 22-23", and no the frame was not stretched. and the brake lever is bone stock.

lets see, what else, the PO put in a mikuni carb, but due to clearance issues there is no air filter. there is only about 1/2 to 3/4 inch for a filter to fit. I have some ideas on that, hell I've been running velocity stacks on my Honda for years, just need to get something on there to keep stuff from being sucked in.

that's not all of it by any means, but I've covered a good bit of it. I'm sure if I got to a point where I would be able to actually fire it up and ride it more issues would pop up. I think as some point this bike was raced due to the safety wire I have seen on various parts of the bike. either that or the wire was all that was holding it together.
mike
 

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Post some pics of the stuff you're stuck on. Someone can help. I made my brake rod out of Cold Rolled round stock and that way you can make it however long you need it. Took about 20 Minutes to get all the bends right and then 10-15 minutes to thread the drum end. It can get overwhelming but it can be done. The Black Box probably is indeed a voltage regulator. Sounds to me like you need a few parts and some help. It can be done bro. You know how many phone calls i had to make to get my Brit garbage running? A lot. What i found out is that it is WAY more basic than i thought originally. I was way over-thinking it. ONE PROBLEM AT A TIME BRO ! Otherwise it seems like a mountain. The only dumb question is the one you don't ask.
 

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not practical ,from a financial perspective to have a shop do it ,assuming if you had the money you would have bought a turn key bike ,youre likely to put more money into it than youll ever get back out of it ,same as with old car restorations ,old victors arent necessarilly that reliable anyways ,you might reconsider ,and sell or trade toward a runner ,it wouldnt be as bad if parts were more available ,not saying its not do-able just not for the faint of heart ,and if you dont have the knowledge or experience it may take years ,years you could be riding ,Im sure you can find someone to buy it and give it the love and infusion of cash it needs ,the victor is still one of the nicest classics of all time as far as im concerned in my book its in the top five of timelessly styled bikes.either way good luck
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
well, thats just the thing. I have all the parts, I believe, to get it running (barring any of those unforseen problems) when I bought the bike I budgeted for the parts needed, so I have the cam plate and a new battery, the shifter quadrant, tons of wire, a boyer ignition, and much more. I just can't make sense of how it all goes together (or comes apart) Hell, I could probably do it in a weekend if I had someone who really knew what they were doing working with me. But, I don't know anyone who even owns a british bike and it really would be presumptious to ask here when i've been a member for such a short time, and haven't really contributed much. so far I've got less than 2k invested in the bike and that includes a ton of new parts. I hsve seen these going for 4-5k, so I have some room to pay for some help. even though a resto will probably be worth more than a cafe, its not about the money, it's about the scream of the engine and the wind in your face. and a feeling that is as close to flying as us mere mortals will ever get.
cheers
mike
 

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.. it's about the scream of the engine and the wind in your face. and a feeling that is as close to flying as us mere mortals will ever get.
My second bike was a 441.. topped out at about 70mph.. almost put me off old bikes forever after spending a whack of money only to have the clutch melt & endless breakdowns.

You are in the right place for help. It's not presumptious to ask for help, that's what the site is for.. many others have been where you are now.
The factory literature available is not always clear, or glosses over certain procedures. Keep pluggin' away & you will get there.
 

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Remember what Johnny Cash said? One piece at a time. Everywhere has a starting point. Pick a point and start from there. It may be the cam plate or whatever. One thing at a time and you'll be surprised how quick a Brit single makes sense. Its British. It was built down to a price.
 

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It took me two years to finish my bike in between three moves, one across country. That's the most gratifying part of it. Money can't buy sweat equity. I'm still shakin down my bike and have only ridden it three blocks from my house as I'm still unsure and thing are STILL popping up everytime I ride it but at this point I am forced to finish it. We all make it sound easy but I was exactly where you are 6 months ago so I understand. Time on the board doesn't matter. Post up some pics of your problem parts and you'll get help. I know nothing about your 441 but I can help look up stuff and maybe ask a couple friends. This is a community of knowledge. Don't get frustrated .... Dig in and make a list. One thing at a time. What's the biggest problem right now ... Th cam plate? Post some pics and describe what you've tried. Someone will know or can find out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
ok, one thing at a time, how do i get the second left side crankcase cover off? I unscrewed all of the bolts, took off the kickstart thingy (sorry to be so technical) and it still wont come off? if it ever stops raining i'll take a picture.
cheers,
mike
 

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Mike, sorry to hear your having the troubles. The inner timing cover comes off with all the bolts removed. There are some in the center of the cover too. It's a tight fit because it's holding the cam and other gears as well as the two shafts in the transmission. Check the exploded view in the parts book. This will give you access to the trans. When you put it back together you will need to build the trans on the cover and then put it in the cases. The rocker feed was blocked off on the return and pressure fed from the oil pump. the ccm racing team did this as these engines were known for sub par oiling. Look here for more info. http://b50.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=12&Itemid=135 see item #4. Letus know how you make out.
 

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Its not too bad of job. On the left side of the engine, you have to remove the primary cover, chain, and clutch basket. Then remove the inner sprocket access cover. At this point, remove the countershaft sprocket. The inner cover on the right side should come out. You have to remove all the crap on the primary side of the engine because when the right side inner cover comes off, the transmission assembly comes with it. I had a '68 441vs engine under the bench, so I included a couple pics. I just have a crappy Haynes manual and it walked me right through the procedure (my shift quadrant was bad too). Hope this helps. Don't get too bummed out, its totally do-able.
Kev

 

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Dont give up on it. Once you finish it you will be proud of it. I was in the same boat at one time.
 

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Left side. Take the primary cover off, primary chain off, clutch baskets off, inner sprocket cover off, remove counter shaft sprocket. Then the right inner cover should come off to get to replace the shift quadrant.
Kev
 

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Mike,

Did you not look this bike over before deciding to buy it?

It sounds like you are in over your head and admit as much.

But I can't help notice the victim card being thrown in a few of your statements.

I know this bike and know the builder. It was built as any backyard bike is built. . . with the parts available or desired by the builder. Stock manuals will only help you with some assemblies as you've noted.

The builder is EXTREMELY capable with making things work together and has a deep understanding of motorcycles and auto mechanics.

Taking any new-to-you bike and making it a reliable machine is a commitment.

As I understand it, this bike was sold for VERY cheap, was delivered to your door and was represented honestly.

Did you intend to imply you got fucked or have I just read your words incorrectly?

Thanks,
Jason
 

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441 Victors have always been referred to as "Victim". That is all I see it used as, a common somewhat derogatory term!
Robbie
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Jason,
I never meant to imply I got fucked over on this deal, its all me on this one. the PO bent over backwards on this deal for me and represented it honestly. I am the one who bought it sight unseen for a very good price, and simply didn't know that I was getting into more than (possibly) i could handle. I did vent a little bit out of frustration but it was not meant to be directed at the PO, more at my lack of ability with such a simple system, and not getting anywhere with it. I apologize if any of it was taken that way. and yes what Rubone says as well in referring to the bike as a "victim"
v/r
Mike
 
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