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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey the last time that my sludge trap was removed someone ran a tap on the threads and it is no longer conical shaped. If I run some red thread lock to hold the new plug is that gonna be ok or should I do something else?
 

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asillymick said:
Hey the last time that my sludge trap was removed someone ran a tap on the threads and it is no longer conical shaped. If I run some red thread lock to hold the new plug is that gonna be ok or should I do something else?
I did mine that way, center punched it too - for peace of mind really.
(I had a bonnie crank where they drilled the punch marks out a fraction too far, oil leaking past the plug! You DON'T want that... )
 

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I always run Red Loc-tite on the threads of the sludge tube plug. I always punch it too. Then you need to let the loctite dry for a day or so then hit the oil passageway with compressed air to make sure your pressure is not getting past the threads. If a lot of pressure is sneaking by ("a lot" is really hard to quantify), I use a smudge (just a smudge now!) of JB weld to seal off the plug completely. That drill out of the punch that last and last and last guy did is your enemy. This JB welding of the crank plug most of the time makes your crank a "last time use" crank, but it gets the job done. With proper reassembly of everything else, frequent oil changes with a quality oil, and a conservative break-in period the bottom end should last a good long time, even ender constant use. Modern oils are waaaay better than what you had in the 60's so the tubes don't fill up nearly as fast.


wes
 

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so what about leaving the tube out altogether as long as you replace the set bolt,the end plug and then re-balance the crank (since you`ve subtracted the weight of the sludge tube?)?
 

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I am not sure leaving the tube out is a good idea. I believe that would not allow enough pressure to build up to force the oil through the holes for the rods or perhaps it gives the oil's impurities nothing to get "trapped" in. Course I could just be talking out my ass. . . I have been known to do that when I don't REALLY know the answer to a question. Talk until their eyes glaze over then say someting like "does that answer your question?" The person asking the question is forced to either say yes, or endure more of your rambling.

So you should always put the tube in because that is what the manual says to do.
 

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fouraceswes said:
I am not sure leaving the tube out is a good idea. I believe that would not allow enough pressure to build up to force the oil through the holes for the rods or perhaps it gives the oil's impurities nothing to get "trapped" in. Course I could just be talking out my ass. . . I have been known to do that when I don't REALLY know the answer to a question. Talk until their eyes glaze over then say someting like "does that answer your question?" The person asking the question is forced to either say yes, or endure more of your rambling.

So you should always put the tube in because that is what the manual says to do.
If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit!
 

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fouraceswes said:
I am not sure leaving the tube out is a good idea. I believe that would not allow enough pressure to build up to force the oil through the holes for the rods or perhaps it gives the oil's impurities nothing to get "trapped" in. Course I could just be talking out my ass. . . I have been known to do that when I don't REALLY know the answer to a question. Talk until their eyes glaze over then say someting like "does that answer your question?" The person asking the question is forced to either say yes, or endure more of your rambling.

So you should always put the tube in because that is what the manual says to do.
humbug.
leave it out.
pressure builds up fine - the sludge tube isn't the restriction in the
system (unless sludge has built up, of course).
add an external filter.
works just fine.
who wants an oil filtering system that requires splitting the cases to service?
 

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GumbyChuck said:
humbug.
leave it out.
pressure builds up fine - the sludge tube isn't the restriction in the
system (unless sludge has built up, of course).
add an external filter.
works just fine.
who wants an oil filtering system that requires splitting the cases to service?
and through off the ballace? i thought that tube was for avoiding filling the center void with an extra 5-6 oz before the drive side rod got oil.
 

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zgears said:
and through off the ballace? i thought that tube was for avoiding filling the center void with an extra 5-6 oz before the drive side rod got oil.
center fills with oil anyways
how do you think the sludge gets in there? oil carries it
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Well who was it that awhile back posted a message about the Triumph they had built for their wife that now has 15000 miles since the last tear down? They said that they were getting ready to service the motor and would let us know what the trap looks like when they take it apart. Oh and because my bike/frame is a 72 it has an external filter... at least I think that is the part in the frame I just replaced? Hell that is what my parts book called it. OH OH OH! Here is another "what do you do" question. Some guys that I know around here use some stuff called "Yamabond" on the case when they reasmble a motor. Is that a standard on the case or what has other people used?
 

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asillymick said:
Some guys that I know around here use some stuff called "Yamabond" on the case when they reasmble a motor. Is that a standard on the case or what has other people used?
Yamabond, or Threebond 1104, is great to use for case sealing. It's almost the standard.

Use sparingly and allow to cure before adding any fluids to the engine.

It can be somewhat of a bitch to remove upon servicing, and thus is not frequently used on regularly serviced parts. Hopefully, you don't split the cases on an engine enough to make that a factor in your selection ;-0

jason
 

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asillymick said:
Well who was it that awhile back posted a message about the Triumph they had built for their wife that now has 15000 miles since the last tear down? They said that they were getting ready to service the motor and would let us know what the trap looks like when they take it apart.
I vaguely remember that comment. I would hope at 15,000 miles they don't HAVE to go into the lower end, though.

asillymick said:
Oh and because my bike/frame is a 72 it has an external filter... at least I think that is the part in the frame I just replaced? Hell that is what my parts book called it.
If that's what I think it is it's a pretty coarse mesh trap....not a real filter in the sense of modern oil filters...

asillymick said:
OH OH OH! Here is another "what do you do" question. Some guys that I know around here use some stuff called "Yamabond" on the case when they reasmble a motor. Is that a standard on the case or what has other people used?
Loctite 510 or 518 anerobic gasketing material. Good stuff. Available thru McMaster-Carr and other industrial suppliers.

It's what we used on the aluminum gasket surfaces of the superchargers we built when I was employed by Eaton making production blowers for Ford, GM, Mercedes, Jaguar, etc....
 

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zgears said:
and through off the ballace? i thought that tube was for avoiding filling the center void with an extra 5-6 oz before the drive side rod got oil.
It would take an extra millisecond to fill any extra void before 50lbs of pressure built up and ran the oil those journals,I would think'

and as far as the balance,sludge being denser than the oil,would add tiny fractions of extra weight to the crank over time (back when oil wasn`t synthetic) and it still didn`t affect it noticeably

I would consider re-balancing the crank assembly again after trap removal anyway to compensate for the weight subtraction of the missing sludge trap....but then again,I`m an anal retentive type
 

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I install a new sludge tube when doing a crank rebuild. However, I know some guys who are serious when it comes to their flat track engines. They do not install the sludge tube, but their motors are rebuilt much more frequently than a street bike.

As Wes stated, modern oil and proper filtration are the key. Most Norton engines that run spin off oil filters don't have the cranks filled up w/ sludge the way Triumphs/BSA without a disposable filter usually do.

1104 is a damn good sealer, but what a bitch to remove at rebuild time! Only place I use this is crankcase joint face. I like just a light smear of the ultra grey or black permatex on the covers that have to be serviced occasionally.
 

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Slim said:
It would take an extra millisecond to fill any extra void before 50lbs of pressure built up and ran the oil those journals,I would think'

and as far as the balance,sludge being denser than the oil,would add tiny fractions of extra weight to the crank over time (back when oil wasn`t synthetic) and it still didn`t affect it noticeably

I would consider re-balancing the crank assembly again after trap removal anyway to compensate for the weight subtraction of the missing sludge trap....but then again,I`m an anal retentive type
Weight diff. without the sludge trap??? Rebalance the crank assembly might be helpfull, but I'm wondering - what did the sludge weigh?? Just kidding! They're such smooth running engines anyway. Hee-hee.
 
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