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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a 64 pan motor I am placing in an aftermarket frame, the motor is titled and I have an MSO for the frame. A friend suggested i just fill the frame numbers when i paint to avoid confusion....this is in Florida. Any suggestions, thanks!
 

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yeah I agree I would just put a skim coat over the numbers and keep it to yourself

unless you have a title in hand for the frame, then maybe I would hang onto that and get myself an aftermarket frame or another frame with no title for cheap
 

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Legally in Fl, you do not have to bondo over #'s, title it as a 64, make a copy of your MSO &keep it with your registration if you get pulled over & its questioned, that is a replacment frame
 

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Legally in Fl, you do not have to bondo over #'s, title it as a 64, make a copy of your MSO &keep it with your registration if you get pulled over & its questioned, that is a replacment frame
Do you have that in writing from the dmv? Not trying to bust balls, but that seems like a stretch? The frame numbers have no attachment to the title, if pulled over, I'd say they're towing it because of the confusion.

If you have a '64 motor, the best bet is a pre '70 non-numbered frame. Anything else is taking your chances.

The reason special construction comes into play is because you have a new frame that has a serial number. That serial number is not tied into your title in any way and needs to be titled as whatever year the frame is. An mso is not a title, it's used to obtain a title.
 

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haven't we been down this road ?
Bondo the numbers, ride the bike.. there is no law against sloppy body work.

as always... never admit to anything, always act dumb and just say "I don't know"
 

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Do you have that in writing from the dmv? Not trying to bust balls, but that seems like a stretch? The frame numbers have no attachment to the title, if pulled over, I'd say they're towing it because of the confusion.

If you have a '64 motor, the best bet is a pre '70 non-numbered frame. Anything else is taking your chances.

The reason special construction comes into play is because you have a new frame that has a serial number. That serial number is not tied into your title in any way and needs to be titled as whatever year the frame is. An mso is not a title, it's used to obtain a title.
In florida, we have #'s police. I have dealt with them "MANY" times. If you can prove ownership Via MSO, it's no different than changing your gas tank or rear fender. IF YOU "BONDO" OVER THE STAMPED VIN # ON A FRAME, YOU ARE CONSIDERED, "CONSEALING" IDENTITY.. IT'S A FELONY IN FLORIDA TO ,"CONSEAL" VIN NUMBERS. END OF DISCUSSION !!!!!
It is completely legal to cary a copy of an MSO matching the #'s on the frame. If you are checked, they will run the Titled engine #'s & it will come back as a 64 FL to the owner. When they look at the frame #'s , and they will, you hand them the copy of the MSO. End of problem.
I have first hand knowledge, I sold my 55FL in 08, it was titled as a 1955 H/D, was in a Mid USA frame. Was Checked several times, in Daytona, Coco beach, Orlando, On the Turnpike. Etc. Always carried a copy of the MSO & had to show it every time. Told them i was repairing the original frame & was using the MidUSA frame so i could continue to ride. Not one problem !!! Thats how i did it & i had no problems with it.
If you bondo over the numbers, you are asking to get your bike impounded at a cost of about 3K & 6-12 months in court to try to get it back , on top of a felony charge. You decide !!!!
 

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If you have a '64 motor, the best bet is a pre '70 non-numbered frame. Anything else is taking your chances.


THIS IS BY FAR THE EASIEST WAY ^^^^^^ !!!!

Not trying to be a dick either, but i have been down this road a few times, had my 47 WL impounded in Daytona in 2000 for questionable #'s, it was perfectly legal & i had proof, took 13 months $2100 in lawyers fee's to get it back. That was a FHP officer with a dick for a brain.
 

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I believe they have to prove you had the "intent to conceal" the identity of that frame. I would think if you bought a new frame and sent your frame to Julio's body and paint for a low bid paint job and Julio forgot to tell Hector not to protect the VIN numbers and they got covered with paint and you had Tiny's Big Twin center do all the reassembly and they never knew anything about those number and you just jumped on your bike and rode away then it would be real hard for any District attorney to feel confident enough to file felony intent to conceal vin numbers charges on you especially when there is no theft or fraud charges to go along with it.
I would hope the state of Florida DA's office has some real charges they could send their attorneys to trial on.
sometimes when the cops threaten you with life in prison for spitting on the sidewalk you need to tell them they are full of shit. that badge does not give them the right to break the law.
 

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If you have a '64 motor, the best bet is a pre '70 non-numbered frame. Anything else is taking your chances.

THIS IS BY FAR THE EASIEST WAY ^^^^^^ !!!!

Not trying to be a dick either, but i have been down this road a few times, had my 47 WL impounded in Daytona in 2000 for questionable #'s, it was perfectly legal & i had proof, took 13 months $2100 in lawyers fee's to get it back. That was a FHP officer with a dick for a brain.
You sued the Cop for gross incompetence, and abuse of authority under the color of law right? Your civil rights were violated and you were publicly humiliated. If you didn't, you did us all a dis-service. Can't let these fucks walk on us!
 

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Mso on you , thats a new one. Still doesnt make it legal. It just shows its done wrong and you know it. id give you a ticket for that reason alone if I was a cop.
So by your logic, I could have a titled pre '70 engine in a stolen pre '70 frame thats hotter than a 2 dollar pistol and thats legal? But if I have a numbered frame that I have legl proof is not stolen, thats illegal? I've titled post '70 frames with different post 70 engines, its perfectly legal. So I think maybe where your at is a good place to be from.
 

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So by your logic, I could have a titled pre '70 engine in a stolen pre '70 frame thats hotter than a 2 dollar pistol and thats legal? But if I have a numbered frame that I have legl proof is not stolen, thats illegal? I've titled post '70 frames with different post 70 engines, its perfectly legal. So I think maybe where your at is a good place to be from.[/QUOT

No, read the post, its illegal to bondo over the numbers.
What's wrong is you brain surgeons telling someone to bondo over a vin #, when the guy has proof the frame was purchased legally... Then learn how to read,,I never said carry mso, i said carry a copy... & yes it is the wrong way, but at least he won't be comitting a felony & this way you can keep your Bike & your Harley title. All they can do is force you to register/ title it as special construction. If you want to keep the H/D title, find a pre 70 frame! !!!!!!!.
 

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One other thing to consider.....if the motor is titled in another state, not florida, you will have to take it to the tag office to have the numbers inspected. That could end up, making you do a DOT inspection, depending on the tag official. If it ends up having to be DOT inspected, you will end up with a ASPT(assembled from parts) title. Personally, I would register it as ASPT, or just find another frame, pre 70. All you need for the earlier frame, is a bill of sale, since the motor numbers are the vin for the title. Cut up pre 70 frames are not that expensive, but having the bike impounded and hiring a lawyer, well you get the picture. Remember that when the officer pulls you over, you will always be wondering if he will impound. And just because someone else has been let go, does not mean that the cop you get, will do the same. When they call for the wrecker, you will spend more than the cost of a used frame. This also applies if the title is from florida. You just don't have to take to DOT.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Well i've spent allot of money and time on this frame so would like to keep it and def don't need the stress when I'm in Daytona ect. Heres a question can i vault the harley title and just submit the bill of sale for the engine and get an assembled from parts title? Then i have both should the motor wind up walking into an original frame some day?
 

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Well i've spent allot of money and time on this frame so would like to keep it and def don't need the stress when I'm in Daytona ect. Heres a question can i vault the harley title and just submit the bill of sale for the engine and get an assembled from parts title? Then i have both should the motor wind up walking into an original frame some day?
Check with the dmv, but I believe you forfeit the original engine title because they're not going to allow you to have two titles. Getting the special construction is the only way to ensure you don't get hassled. That or suck it up and get a pre '70 frame with no numbers.
 
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