[sugarlou]

Ok , I bought a BDL 1 1/2" belt drive w/ clutch for an electric start Shovel. As many of you know you cant take the alternator rotor off while the inner primary is on. (WTF?) Soooooo while aligning my belt I realize the spacer behind the rotor needs to go cause the belt rides up against it. That means remove starter/pull inner primary. Now I'm starting to think about losing the whole E start and inner all together. I HAVE NOT TOUCHED THE TRANS OR MOTOR mounting positions.

This belt drive uses no idler..it's figured out to be the correct length for stock primary chain replacement.

So in theory if i decide to loose the inner primary and I havent moved anything from stock distances I should be able to run WITHOUT a trans adjuster or will the lack of inner primary make things susceptible to moving around?
I think I just answered my own question...anyone run without one?

 

[Dr. Benway]

Run a belt without an inner primary? Hell yes.
You do have a slotted trans plate, right? There's your adjustment for the belt tension...but you'll need a mainshaft support bearing.

Or is that mainshaft bearing support? Either way.

 

[sugarlou]

No Dr Thats not what Im asking...Im asking do I need the trans adjuster since the trans motor are in the same position as before I removed the inner

 

[vtwinmotors]

I would suggest that you use the adjuster you pictured as well as the support bearing plate, that Dr. Benway discussed.. You will be surprised and how much things move under power.

 

[sugarlou]

I was thinking of laying the inner primary on a piece of steel. Marking out the 2 engine bolt holes and the 2 trans holes and making a simple plate to bolt between the 2

 

[notcool]

It depends on the manufacture of the belt drive. i know BDL says to use your FACTORY harley inner primary to set the relation of the motor and trans, tighten the trans, remove the inner and you should be good...for BDL. PRimo is different.
Then set the belt tension.

 

[Rob Axel]

sugarlou...got a 84 shovel with a cowpie 4 speed I am working on now..... it has a bdl 1 1/2 belt set up and I was having the typical jerking clutch problems...
tore into it and the clutch hub lining was broken loose...i looked at the rivets..they were installed backwards....
I called several "harley" shops here locally for possible 'upgrades"... I said i have a cowpie 4 speed and got "you have a WHAT?" on the phone...I hung up...
I did however locate a guy that has not only owned, but built several shovels in his time...I told him my problem....he hooked me up with a teflon hub lining and answers to all my questions....I am going to meet with him on Friday....I will make notes of your situation and see what he can offer..... no promises.... but atleast maybe some hope....
BTW..your photos are missing....

 

[Dr. Benway]

....he hooked me up with a teflon hub lining and answers to all my questions....

Is that the free floating Nylatron ring that goes in between the clutch hub & basket (instead of the riveted piece)? I just disassembled a '79 and discovered it had one of those in there. I'm curious to see how it all works out.

 

[choptop37]

i used the same setup on the same drivetrain... i will say the belt seemed too tight .but did last so far. i would definatly build a motor plate or cut upthe inner primary and have motor plate/bearing support.. i used the nylon ring and the big fix bearings also.in short to get to the question,you SHOULD be able to just put the belt on, but i would really recomend a support and or some adjustability.also min had an aftermarket rotor and i did manage to get it lined up with the 2 spcers bdl supplies, but i had to turn the od of the ftone down , i think to fit inside the front pulley.. also if the belt is too tight your gonna have clutch drag...

 

[Rob Axel]

...it is the same as the factory (w/ rivets) but just teflon...better for dry clutch setups..

 

[ChopperArn]

slotted trans plate, out board bearing support and no problems.. belt has around 1/2" deflection

 

[jonjon]

I understand what this is about and yes, you should have put a transmission alignment plate on regardless of the maker of belt. Don't cheap charley, purchase a good slotted eng/XMSN plate and XMSN main shaft support. Before tightning anything down on XMSN, lay a true flat level across the eng drive belt sprocket to the clutch hub, when all 4 points align and touch you are in true alignment, tq XMSN. As ChopperArn stated---adjust for 1/2" deflection.

 

[jonjon]

I must add---- you add or take away spacers under eng drv pully to align with clutch hub for true alignment. If this not done correctly, the belt will prematurly break and slap the hell out of your leg , I had some buddys consistantly break belts and not even get on the road due to improper installation.

 

[sixball]

If I am reading this right, your wanting to leave the engine and tranny bolted where they are right now since they are in the correct spot and true.

If so, when you put the belt drive on, in order to get the belt on the motor pulley and the clutch, your probably going to have the tranny loose to get the belt on anyway.

Aligning the motor/tranny for an open belt drive is not a huge problem, it's been done a million times without any special tranny adjusters. If you really want to make it easy, buy the adjustable 4 speed tranny plate with the sockethead adjusters on the back. You can adjust it true as well as set your belt tension correctly.

Or if you go without the adjustable tranny plate, search, or post for tips on adjusting the driveline.

I've run open with no motor plate on motors from stock to 113 with no issues.

Sixball

 

[ralphiejantz]

Lou
on my cone 93" cone shovel
I run a 3" BDL open belt with no plate between the motor and trans and just a simple 4spd trans plate that has the slots where the studs from the tranny bolt down and let the trans slide forward or back,

I simply line up the clutch basket and make sure everything is sitting straight
then I just use a leverage bar to push the trans to the back of the bike and set the tension on the belt and then lock down the bolts on the trans
this is a little easier down with 2 people but Ive done it many times by myself

my motor makes a decent amount of power for a shovel and Ive been running this setup for a few years now since I built the bike and had zero problems

my other 2 bikes are like this setup also just not as much power running through the motors and they are using 1.5" open belts

 

[Friday]

they used to run open chain in the 30s,40s ,on the tin primary bikes .

The bearing is there because its an **electric start** model to support the clutch as the starter hammers it.

lose the starter and the bike is equivalent to an old bike. as long as its lined up and spaced when the pri case is on ,itll be sweet to go once case is removed. only concern is protecting the alterntor mags and stator.

those old guys back when couldnt have been wrong or we wouldnt be stuffing around with bikes today , its all been done before.

 

[Rob Axel]

^^^ pretty much all the info I got^^
Though I got totally different answers regarding "dry" clutch plates...I have done some reading and it seems to be still "up in the air"....some say "soak them overnight,wipe them off and install" others say "dry them off and scuff them on a concrete surface"....
This was regarding a STOCK 3 finger hub setup with a belt...

 

[Sporticus]

Hijack warning. Let me add my own similar problem. I've got an '82 or '83 FXSB with non-adjustable factory belt and cowpie tranny. The motor sprocket has no flange so the belt could, in theory, slide right off. I had to remove the inner primary for an unrelated reason. getting that belt on and off - with the inner primary in place - was one of the most difficult things I've ever done. I looked for a way to move the tranny back and forth and couldn't find one. Am I missing something obvious or is this designed to be a pain in the ass?

 

[Friday]

plates need a scuff up IF they are glazed , thats only on plates that have been running . new ones go straight in.
soak over night?? its not a tea bag.

FXSB = the big fix 50 odd long roller bearings go in AFTER the belt and clutch have been put in place , its easy as hell , eveything just sits there while you just push another bearing in , theres only a touch of grease that goes on the bearings. youll be happy as when you get them= no more pulling your hair out.

god knows how they put those belts on in the factory with original bearings

 

[Rob Axel]

back together....just wiped off the existing plates. re installed the caged bearings with minimal high temp grease. I did however end up bending one of the long fingers on the hub during the torquing...got it back as close as possible....the plates kinda hung up. Drilled the holes a slight larger....took it around the block, smooth as silk. Now I have a extra cowpie transmission I no longer need.
Sport, btw, I do not have flanges on the motor side either....I was told they are primarily for open primaries...