Amal tickler or Mikuni choke for easier COLD starts

3004 Views 10 Replies 8 Participants Last post by Goldy, Apr 30, 2012

bochnak

Discussion Starter · Apr 27, 2012

Hi,

I have a brand new amal 930 on a 67 tr6r, and it very difficult to start and keep running when cold. Bike is running great when warmed up.

I tickle the carb until a bit a fuel spills out, and she fires right away in 1-2 kicks. It will only run for a few seconds, and I have to repeat the procedure over and over until warm. In each attempt, it will run a bit longer.

I'm wondering if the choke setup on a mikuni would better for cold starts?

Thanks,
Matt

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skinthead

· #2 · Apr 27, 2012

there should be a second hole in the top of your amal for a choke cable. There shoud be small slide in the round slide of the amal as well, and that is your choke. Cable up thechoke and you won't have that problem anymore.

If everything is tuned properly, and you tickle that thing a bit more, it shouln't be such a pain in the ass when cold.

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bochnak

Discussion Starter · #3 · Apr 27, 2012

skinthead said:
there should be a second hole in the top of your amal for a choke cable. There shoud be small slide in the round slide of the amal as well, and that is your choke. Cable up thechoke and you won't have that problem anymore.

If everything is tuned properly, and you tickle that thing a bit more, it shouln't be such a pain in the ass when cold.

Forgot to mention that I did install a choke. However, the choke plunger descends to about 1/4" from the bottom of bore, so it does absolutely nothing since the throttle slide is well below that.

Here is a link to a post where I asked about the plunger:
http://www.jockeyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=813925#post813925

The bike is tuned properly. Valve adj, timing, new plugs, new carb, etc.. was all done.

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fouraceswes

· #4 · Apr 27, 2012

When the bike fires, you should give it some extra tickling, if that keeps it running you might have a partially clogged pilot circuit. Also you might be doing it, but it helps to give it some throttle when warming it up.

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bochnak

Discussion Starter · #5 · Apr 27, 2012

fouraceswes said:
When the bike fires, you should give it some extra tickling, if that keeps it running you might have a partially clogged pilot circuit. Also you might be doing it, but it helps to give it some throttle when warming it up.

Yes, I do crack the throttle a bit and that helps. I've tried to reach over with my left hand and tickle it some more, which also helps.

If my pilot were clogged, wouldn't the situation be much worse when warm? My pilot screw is 1 turn out, which seems normal. It runs great once warm.

I guess my question is: does the choke on mikunis offer easier starts than amals?

The amal works fine with a page long starting procedure..

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reverb

· #6 · Apr 27, 2012

...hello, the previous comments are right
but also if you tickle the carb then start first kick and then seems to die, I think you have to check the screws again

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bochnak

Discussion Starter · #7 · Apr 27, 2012

Another Q: those of you running an amal choke, does it make any difference whether choke is on or off on a cold running engine?

On this bike, it makes no difference.

I called the choke cable supplier, and told them about my plunger not reaching the bottom of carb bore. Apparently, these cables need to be longer or shorter in some cases, I guess the quality has lacked over the years. He mentioned that I can remove a 1/4" or so from the middle of casing. I could simulate this by just removing cable from lever and see if it will start easier, although he also said it may not make that much of a difference anyway.

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wvenfield

· #8 · Apr 27, 2012

I'm going to say the choke is still not working properly, most likely for the reason you note.

I'm going to guess that nobody said that the Mikuni choke would work better because they would hate to see you switch out the Amal.

It's almost summer. It will be warm out soon. LOL

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beaverbikes

· #9 · Apr 27, 2012

I seldom bother with chokes on my own Amals, but often put em on a customer's bike. Don't want them grumbling, you know. I feel that they can make starting marginally easier. And you do need the choke lump tp slide clear down to the bottom of the hole. Very careful work with a dremel cutoff wheel can get a little of the conduit off the inner cable, but real fussy. If you have a propane torch and some flux you can modify that cable pretty easy, bottom end is not hard to change. Unless the nipple is crimped on, then you need a new bottom nipple. Local bike shop should have something, or brass tube from hobby lobby. For now, tickle the piss out of it, let a lot run out then wipe off. John Healy Triumph guru says if any of these run right cold, well they are set up too rich anyway.

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kllrjo

· #10 · Apr 30, 2012

brother, i think you need to clean your carby! i`v got 4 triumphs that will tickle and fire up and run on the coldest of days! 32o in the late 80`s [in Tampa Fl, no less!] and the Triumph was the ONLY thing i had that would fire up! rode it to work all the way across town! froze me arse off! took two tickles and two kicks to achieve running status.....
back in the SBR [suncoast british rider] days, i got turned off of Mikuni`s simply by watching [and waiting] wiliest the mickey roony guys started their bikes..they have a cold start enrichener circuit as a choke, lots like an Amal, only far more easily plugged up! .ALWAYS seemed to be a couple that didnt want to fire...once running, they ran great! just didnt want to fire up cold. as a matter of fact, thats about the ONLY prob i have with Mikuni`s!
back around `04, we got a post on the BB.com board about a "show" triumph that would not fire up...bike was at a very nice indy hog shop and it HAS to fire up and ride in for the show...since i was closest to the shop in St Petersberg, i got the call to go chk it out....[ no amount of posted advice was helping this guy and Daytona was approaching fast!]
so i ride over and look!
turns out to be a RAT BIKE! an old triumph chopper with a springer and a craftsman lawn tractor rear end welded on along with dead animal skulls and every bit of buffoonery added you can imagine! bikes name was EZ_RAT and it was a repeated winner in the ratbike class in daytona...so i see the single Mik and ask the tech,
"you chkd fire/timing all of that?"-----YUP!
"howzabout fuel? any in the carb?"----yup!
"with all the kicking you`v been doing, have you seen the plugs wet yet?"---------
"well, NO! these mikunis dont just spew fuel like the old amals do" he tells me.
"izzat so? well, i`m gonna need two things to fire this bike up! a can of carb cleaner and a FIRE EXTINGUISHER!"
at this point the shop owner has started seating PROFUSELY with visions of his shop burning down over some pc-of-shyte like this exploding cause some fool dumped a 1/4 can of carb cleaner down the intake..
...but thats what i did!
bike fired on the first kick and blew one muffler off! [thats ok, it was only wired on!] second kick, bike fires and runs! [not to badly, either!]
i had noticed that the MIK was all sooted up...bike had caught fire [or,,they SET it on fire for extra points!] and the tech wasnt allowed to clean the carb or put new fuel lines or clamps,,,everything HAD to be used or rusted or you would lose points in this class! when i saw the soot i knew that an O ring had swelled shut or varnish had been baked solid in the fuel enrichment circuit and prevented starting! `ell, i saw the trouble some of the guys in the club had firing their MIK equipped bikes and they DID try to keep their carbs clean!
of course, some of the guys had MIK`s and NEVER had a problem firing their machines up........i just noticed that the bikes that didnt want to start, yet we knew ran fine, generally had MIKS!
i have four running trumps right now and only one has the choke slides installed and i`v never used them to start the bike!

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Goldy

· #11 · Apr 30, 2012

To answer some of your questions...different bikes/ carbs behave differently...Most will start no problem just by tickling, others will start better with the chokes down and some will even start with the choke alone. Having said that, if the choke is not all the way down it will do nothing to aid starting...once the bike is running, you can lift the choke until it will take the throttle without gasping...again, on most machines you can completely lift it almost immediately; on others, you are better leaving it partially on for a minute or so.
As far as ease of starting goes, once you have everything sorted out, I really don't think Mikunis start any better than Amals although they are great carburetors.
Stick with it, you'll get it sorted out eventually.

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