Jockey Journal Forum banner
1 - 20 of 66 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,752 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Good evening gents,

Looking for a little guidance re the above.

Most of the adjustable trees I have seen, the lower tree or 'rake adjuster' is a slotted bracket which I believe offers up to 6 degrees? of rake.

I have an old set of OEM trees from a gent in america, really tired. I've got them in a good place now with some re cutting of threads etc.

Here's my question.. my lower tree doesn't have the welded on 'slotted' adjuster, mine is literally just slots together with a 5/8 bolt, castle nut etc. A friend also has a set the same.. I'm confused, how am I meant to 'lock' the rake? do you rely on torque and cotter pinning the castle nut? It doesn't fill me with confidence.. to the point I may tack weld it once it's set to offer some security.

hope this makes sense.. TDLR: Was expecting a slotted channel to adjust rake, mine just bolts together which means you can rake from -5 to +40 probably.

any guidance is always much appreciated.

Rhys
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,287 Posts

They are intended to be adjusted into two positions in or out. The two oblong washers with the pins are installed either to front or rear. Holes to rear reduces trail, holes to front is stock trail. They are intended for sidecar use were reduced trail makes it easier to steer the sidecar rig. The reduced trail also helps with raked frames.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,752 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·

They are intended to be adjusted into two positions in or out. The two oblong washers with the pins are installed either to front or rear. Holes to front reduces trail, holes to rear is stock trail. They are intended for sidecar use were reduced trail makes it easier to steer the sidecar rig. The reduced trail also helps with raked frames.

Joe,

This is why I'm confused, the 'slotted' adjuster on that lower tree. I do not have that. Mine can freely move, it's not slotted, but fully adjustable.

This is why I was so confused, I can't see how I can possibly lock it in place unless I weld it when I have it where I want it. Looks like it may be my only option.

Have you ever seen one without the 'set' positions? It's definitely all original. I have a friend who has the same lower also.

I'll update with photos when I can to show more in depth what I mean. But basically, mine is a hinge. Strange.

Rhys
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,540 Posts
I read your first post, looked at the photos, read your second post - done all this about 10 times lol
I can't figure out what you are saying and what I can figure out, also don't think it'safe - if I'm understanding it right. Definitely photos would be good.

I think I get it thought, instead of the slotted lugs, you have 1 single hole lugs, and those logs are then bolted, from under the tree?
So is the bottom tree slotted then? so the bolts that hold the lugs to the tree can 'run" forward and backwards?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,752 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I read your first post, looked at the photos, read your second post - done all this about 10 times lol
I can't figure out what you are saying and what I can figure out, also don't think it'safe - if I'm understanding it right. Definitely photos would be good.

I think I get it thought, instead of the slotted lugs, you have 1 single hole lugs, and those logs are then bolted, from under the tree?
So is the bottom tree slotted then? so the bolts that hold the lugs to the tree can 'run" forward and backwards?
I'm probably not explaining it well at all!

Where most of the exmaples I've seen have a slotted lug which gives 'adjustment' mine isn't slotted, it's literally a two piece tree which bolts together, the adjustment isn't limited as it's not running in anything. So I could go from -5 rake to +30 probably or more.

Now, that being said, Spike has a set and his are like mine. I've also seen aftermarket billet ones which operate the same way. It's just I cannot see how it'll stay 'locked' at a rake. With vibration it's going to want to loosen, even a slight amount, it may rake itself out as it'll naturally want to splay.

As I mentioned, I'm going to get it where I want it with my longer tubes and do some neat hidden welds. That way it'll be secure and I'll have comfort knowing it's secure!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,540 Posts
definitely would be great to see some photos, I'm curious on how it all goes together
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,752 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
definitely would be great to see some photos, I'm curious on how it all goes together
I'll put some in on the weekend. I don't have the trees at my house, bead blasted and being painted! it's basically the lower with the stem and steering lock, then a 5/8 bolt goes through that and the lower tree which has lugs and tube guide etc, it basically is then a hinge!

I'll be doing a nice seam weld to lock it once I get what I need from it! haha.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,287 Posts
The above are the OEM for a OEM adjustable triple clamp. Get some pictures up if your lower tree does not match the picture in post # 2. If it does match buy or fabricate the lock tabs. Welding and ruining a original is not the way to go unless they have already been fucked up by some one else. In which case I'd be welding to restore them to original not welding them solid. PICTURES HELP.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,287 Posts
If you want raked factory trees Wideglide and some Softails are raked 3 degree.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,717 Posts
probably Servicar adjustable yokes, they could be set in two positions i believe but can be machined to operate the same as BigTwin yokes, these are Servicar yokes
Tool Hand tool Wood Metal Auto part

Wood Tool Bicycle part Gas Auto part
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,752 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
The above are the OEM for a OEM adjustable triple clamp. Get some pictures up if your lower tree does not match the picture in post # 2. If it does match buy or fabricate the lock tabs. Welding and ruining a original is not the way to go unless they have already been fucked up by some one else. In which case I'd be welding to restore them to original not welding them solid. PICTURES HELP.
Joe, I don't have the 'slotted tabs' to lock it with the lock tabs. Mine is literally just a pivot hinge. So it can move freely.

They're original with stampings etc. I'll be able to post some pictures tomorrow as I don't have any to show you at the moment. I don't have any way to set it position wise. Reason I'm going with these is I'm going to 8/10 over, and want to use the trees to rake. So I may weld the lower to suit the rake I need!

probably Servicar adjustable yokes, they could be set in two positions i believe but can be machined to operate the same as BigTwin yokes, these are Servicar yokes View attachment 273504
View attachment 273503

Pete! I have sidecar pan trees. I'm just baffled by the lower not having any 'fixed' locking areas.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,752 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,717 Posts
thats the thing with buying old parts,
always take what the seller tells you with a pinch of salt,
over the years Harley came out with many variations of parts, some lasted a year & some things havent changed since the 20's going by the date codes within the part numbers,
I don't know for sure if what you have is Servicar, or part servicar & part Pan or Shovel or even Evo,
I havent personally haven't come across adjustable yokes, but I do know that Servicar adjustable yokes were different to the big twin yokes, & even on Servicars there were probably a few versions, I just dont know,...
if there are any numbers molded into the parts, post them here & there will be someone who has the cross reference books who might be able to ID them,
also, are you 100% sure they are complete ?... ya never know, if you haven't had a set before, you may be missing a critical part that would make it all clearer to you....
years ago in the late 70's, I bought a set of forks in a job lot of Panther 600 frame & fork parts, that I sold to a mate, I didn't want them or like the style & operation, but later found out they were a set of Vard forks not Panther or Dowty forks as I first thought & were worth loads more than I sold (as good as gave away!) them for...it taught me to always check, get part numbers & pictures so I know what I'm buying or selling
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,752 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
thats the thing with buying old parts,
always take what the seller tells you with a pinch of salt,
over the years Harley came out with many variations of parts, some lasted a year & some things havent changed since the 20's going by the date codes within the part numbers,
I don't know for sure if what you have is Servicar, or part servicar & part Pan or Shovel or even Evo,
I havent personally haven't come across adjustable yokes, but I do know that Servicar adjustable yokes were different to the big twin yokes, & even on Servicars there were probably a few versions, I just dont know,...
if there are any numbers molded into the parts, post them here & there will be someone who has the cross reference books who might be able to ID them,
also, are you 100% sure they are complete ?... ya never know, if you haven't had a set before, you may be missing a critical part that would make it all clearer to you....
years ago in the late 70's, I bought a set of forks in a job lot of Panther 600 frame & fork parts, that I sold to a mate, I didn't want them or like the style & operation, but later found out they were a set of Vard forks not Panther or Dowty forks as I first thought & were worth loads more than I sold (as good as gave away!) them for...it taught me to always check, get part numbers & pictures so I know what I'm buying or selling

I'm pretty sure looking, I have pan sidecar top tree with adjustable caps and oil deflectors and a servicar lower tree, which is a pivot hinge style adjustment instead of an adjustable slotted channel.

These were crusty and the somebody had destroyed the threads in the top tree, had tap it out to 9/16! As you said, 70 year old parts. I can make this servicar work, with adjusting it to the rake I want and welding it. It's not ideal but I'll try and manage it so that it can be undone without damage.

Finding OEM adjustable trees is a difficult task, it's my answer to not cutting my beautiful frame!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,717 Posts
dont be too fast to weld them,
there is obviously a way they go together safely without doing something as drastic as welding,
in an article I read, it said that with minimal machining they can be made to big twin spec, that would be far better than a weld that will also ruin any value they may have to a collector somewhere down the line,
the other thing is would you trust the forks not to collapse & swing out if a weld breaks,
after all, the yokes take a hell of a lot of pounding & stress with the bikes & your weight on them doing 60mph & hitting bad roads with pot holes,
the weakeast part of a weld is right next to the weld, where the heat from welding can & does induce brittle metal,
also if they are in cast iron & not cast steel (they may be I'm guessing being from older models ) you wont be able to have them welded safely for fork use easily....
check into it ,
I know that Jeff at Riversides, now in Surrey, has had servicars as his shop runaround for at least 30+ years & is very knowledgable on them,
he may even have spares, he seems to have most things from Knuckles to evos, might be worth calling or emailing him
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,752 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
dont be too fast to weld them,
there is obviously a way they go together safely without doing something as drastic as welding,
in an article I read, it said that with minimal machining they can be made to big twin spec, that would be far better than a weld that will also ruin any value they may have to a collector somewhere down the line,
the other thing is would you trust the forks not to collapse & swing out if a weld breaks,
after all, the yokes take a hell of a lot of pounding & stress with the bikes & your weight on them doing 60mph & hitting bad roads with pot holes,
the weakeast part of a weld is right next to the weld, where the heat from welding can & does induce brittle metal,
also if they are in cast iron & not cast steel (they may be I'm guessing being from older models ) you wont be able to have them welded safely for fork use easily....
check into it ,
I know that Jeff at Riversides, now in Surrey, has had servicars as his shop runaround for at least 30+ years & is very knowledgable on them,
he may even have spares, he seems to have most things from Knuckles to evos, might be worth calling or emailing him
I won't be rushing into welding them Pete. I don't doubt it will work fine, it's in great condition, just with the top tree, to fix it in place and stop it adjusting it's rake I can't see how it'll be possible. Without drastic measure that is.

My other option is to try and find a suitable lower section off a BT with the slotted brackets which offer the limtied adjustment. I think they offer 5/6 degrees which will be plenty to run 8 over.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,287 Posts
Think about not welding it just for preserving it. But as I said before Wideglide trees have a 3 degree rake.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,717 Posts
this shows what you basically should have & how they work, these are big twin Yokes,
Servicars I believe only have one cross mount hole on the bottom YOKE, where as big twins have the 2 to choose from, & by reversing the fork tube to plug which is cross drilled off centre to give another 2 choices of rake,
i believe big twins have 2 holes through the bottom yoke so you get more choices,
I'm not sure about any slot that can go from 0-40 degrees without a stop, could someone have joined the two cross holes by machining them giving you a slot ?...
pics would help a lot when you can get them,
there must be a way to put them together & be safe without welding or the factory wouldnt have made & sold them, unless someone has beenplaying with them trying to reinvent the wheel,...
all i can think of is
White Line Art Font Music

if the bottom Yoke has been altered already for some reason, but going through many pictures of adustable Harley yokes I havent found any with a slot anywhere...
 
1 - 20 of 66 Posts
Top