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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Looking for help/advise on my 78 Shovel. I'm running a 3" open belt drive Karata set up. The issue i'm having is that the belt isnt staying alligned properly. It keeps walking intoward the clutch hub. and rides about 1/8" off of the hub. I've tried shimming the front sproket out, adjusting tranny. If i line the belt up centered on the hub, it walk inward just from kicking it over. Any suggestions.
-Primo
 

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FTW,
you need to take a straight edge across the outer lip on the clutch hub and see where that is in relation to the engine pulley. If it touches all 4 contact points, 2 on the clutch hub and 2 on the pulley it is lined up. If it doesn't and the space is even where it doesn't, ya need to shim that amount. If the space is uneven, say like 30 thousands at the rear and 60 thousands on the front, ya need to adjust the tranny, it's cocked.

Also, at the top of this page there is an intro section, please do an intro and tell us a little about yourself and Read all of the stickys. There is a world of info on here, welcome.
 

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I would start with checking the wheel aligment with frame first. Pull a line off the neck and start there. belt tend to move. if its rubbing and cocked bad thats a different story.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I went over it with a straight edge and it appeared fine. But did it out of frustration. Gonna go over it with a cool head. Would you shim or adjust tranny first if its off?

FTW,
you need to take a straight edge across the outer lip on the clutch hub and see where that is in relation to the engine pulley. If it touches all 4 contact points, 2 on the clutch hub and 2 on the pulley it is lined up. If it doesn't and the space is even where it doesn't, ya need to shim that amount. If the space is uneven, say like 30 thousands at the rear and 60 thousands on the front, ya need to adjust the tranny, it's cocked.

Also, at the top of this page there is an intro section, please do an intro and tell us a little about yourself and Read all of the stickys. There is a world of info on here, welcome.
 

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The first thing ya need to do is to take a deep breath, I tend to break shit when I'm pissed, so after years of breakin things, I've learned to walk away and come back later with a clear head.

If it's cocked, the first thing ya need to do is to get it inline and that will tell ya where the motor pulley is (to far out or in).

Now tell me about your build. Ya just swapin the primary out or is this a new build? With the belt walkin, it sounds like a new build. If so, did ya bolt down the rear motor mounts and shim the front? A lot of guys don't know to do this and just bolt the motor down....This tends to bust a LOT of motor mounts. Also, do ya have the bearing support on the input shaft on the tranny?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Complete build, paughco frame. I did not shim the front... Yes i put a bearing support bearing on the input shaft.

The first thing ya need to do is to take a deep breath, I tend to break shit when I'm pissed, so after years of breakin things, I've learned to walk away and come back later with a clear head.

If it's cocked, the first thing ya need to do is to get it inline and that will tell ya where the motor pulley is (to far out or in).

Now tell me about your build. Ya just swapin the primary out or is this a new build? With the belt walkin, it sounds like a new build. If so, did ya bolt down the rear motor mounts and shim the front? A lot of guys don't know to do this and just bolt the motor down....This tends to bust a LOT of motor mounts. Also, do ya have the bearing support on the input shaft on the tranny?
 

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The first thing ya need to do is to take a deep breath, I tend to break shit when I'm pissed, so after years of breakin things, I've learned to walk away and come back later with a clear head.

If it's cocked, the first thing ya need to do is to get it inline and that will tell ya where the motor pulley is (to far out or in).

Now tell me about your build. Ya just swapin the primary out or is this a new build? With the belt walkin, it sounds like a new build. If so, did ya bolt down the rear motor mounts and shim the front? A lot of guys don't know to do this and just bolt the motor down....This tends to bust a LOT of motor mounts. Also, do ya have the bearing support on the input shaft on the tranny?
Can you explain why front of motor needs shimming? and how much?
 

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You need a trans adjuster as well, the one that is part of the mounting plate is the best, think of your trans shaft and motor shaft as two + + you have up and down shimming and side to side shimming, once the two shafts are inline both vectors your belt should runn true.

Who's got a like to belt alinment for this guy??


...Roach.
 

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"Can you explain why front of motor needs shimming? and how much?"

Typically, you torque the rear motor mount bolts to spec and put a feeler gauge under the "feet" of the front motor mounts. If you can get a feeler between the bottom of the motor mount(s) and top of the frame mount, fill it with a shim. For instance, a beer can typically provides a .004" shim.

If you dont shim that gap you risk cracking the motor mounts. So, shim it, if it needs it.

Check your tranny to mount fitment, too. If its wobbling on the tranny plate, it may need to be shimmed as well.

What kind of tranny adjustment do you have? Is the tranny all the way forward?

This process isnt rocket science, just take your time and do it right.
 

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Had this set up on my '76 If I remember correctly:

Karata drives will always track slightly outward when set up correctly. The front pulley cover or steel ring keeps the belt from walking completely off. I used to remove the belt by taking that cover off and kicking the motor over and it slowly tracks off..You have an alignment issue. Call him. He was VERY helpful when I was having issues. He knows his product and is the first guy you need advice from.

P.S. Im not saying the advice here is incorrect.

Quick advice ..run a known true straight edge across BOTH sides of the motor pulley and past both sides of the clutch basket if possible. You need the correct length straight edge. If you dont have one get one. The 2 pulleys must be square with each other.

If I remember correctly I wasnt able to lay the edge across both sides ( I believe the clutch basket was further outward or inward) but you can determine if theres any angles forming

This took a while to get sorted out. Its frustrating. It has to be dead nuts.

Your next issue will be belt tension...if the belt is tight and you are running the stock clutch hub/ bearings you are in for another set of issues. (use SEARCH this has been discussed to death here ..you will be scolded/bitch slapped if you start a new thread on this)

I was working with factory motor /trans/ locations...you are not.

But Id call Karata for step one....

If you are running stock clutch hub/ bearings I'd consider a narrower belt. 1 1/2" will have less "outward" pull on the stock bearing or upgrade clutch to a sealed bearing style

I ran the Karata 3" with the stock hub for a year or two and it did work but was always "just" sorta working..Installed Pro Clutch and that solved that. BDL I have now is very good as well.
 

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Get an inner primary and install it to line everything up. Remove it and fabricate a motor plate that allows you to adjust the tranny as needed. Keep everything in line as you do this.
 

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BUSTEDLIFTER is giving you good sound advice. It is a tried and true trick to line up the tranny with the motor while the inner primary connects the two. While you have that inner primary on, secure your motor and tranny mounting bolts to spec.

Then take off the inner primary if you plan on that.
Install your belt drive pulleys, NOW do the straight edge check and shim appropriately.
 

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Ok, before ya go any farther, loosen up the front motor mount bolts and with a feeler gauge (start with .001 and go up from there on both sides of mounting holes), shim as needed and torque back down.

Roach, thanks for bringin up the adjuster, took it for granted.
Buckman, thanks for bringing up the shimming the tranny, again, took it for granted.

On the shimming, be it a stock frame or after market, NEVER, EVER assume that the mounts are square, flat or where they should be, swap meets are full of busted cases because of this!

Bustedlifter is right, an inner will get ya where ya need to be if-1 ya have one and 2 if ya dont mind puttin it on and takin it back off but as Tilngit said, ya gotta strait edge it anyways so thats how I do it. Just a matter of how ya like to do it.

Once ya get that lined out, let us know and we'll try to walk ya through the rest, D.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I did do different adjustment positions, using the tranny plate, and different angles. Still didnt jive. I plan on trying again this saturday coming.

You need a trans adjuster as well, the one that is part of the mounting plate is the best, think of your trans shaft and motor shaft as two + + you have up and down shimming and side to side shimming, once the two shafts are inline both vectors your belt should runn true.

Who's got a like to belt alinment for this guy??

...Roach.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thanks, never thought to call Karata.

Had this set up on my '76 If I remember correctly:

Karata drives will always track slightly outward when set up correctly. The front pulley cover or steel ring keeps the belt from walking completely off. I used to remove the belt by taking that cover off and kicking the motor over and it slowly tracks off..You have an alignment issue. Call him. He was VERY helpful when I was having issues. He knows his product and is the first guy you need advice from.

P.S. Im not saying the advice here is incorrect.

Quick advice ..run a known true straight edge across BOTH sides of the motor pulley and past both sides of the clutch basket if possible. You need the correct length straight edge. If you dont have one get one. The 2 pulleys must be square with each other.

If I remember correctly I wasnt able to lay the edge across both sides ( I believe the clutch basket was further outward or inward) but you can determine if theres any angles forming

This took a while to get sorted out. Its frustrating. It has to be dead nuts.

Your next issue will be belt tension...if the belt is tight and you are running the stock clutch hub/ bearings you are in for another set of issues. (use SEARCH this has been discussed to death here ..you will be scolded/bitch slapped if you start a new thread on this)

I was working with factory motor /trans/ locations...you are not.

But Id call Karata for step one....

If you are running stock clutch hub/ bearings I'd consider a narrower belt. 1 1/2" will have less "outward" pull on the stock bearing or upgrade clutch to a sealed bearing style

I ran the Karata 3" with the stock hub for a year or two and it did work but was always "just" sorta working..Installed Pro Clutch and that solved that. BDL I have now is very good as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I orignially wanted to borrow a inner primary, but the problem is I had fabbed something else that is welded to the lower part of the frame. With that said, where its welded will not let me mount the inner. I think before I go any further i want to try and determine if the motor and tranny need shimmed. And exactly how to do that.

Ok, before ya go any farther, loosen up the front motor mount bolts and with a feeler gauge (start with .001 and go up from there on both sides of mounting holes), shim as needed and torque back down.

Roach, thanks for bringin up the adjuster, took it for granted.
Buckman, thanks for bringing up the shimming the tranny, again, took it for granted.

On the shimming, be it a stock frame or after market, NEVER, EVER assume that the mounts are square, flat or where they should be, swap meets are full of busted cases because of this!

Bustedlifter is right, an inner will get ya where ya need to be if-1 ya have one and 2 if ya dont mind puttin it on and takin it back off but as Tilngit said, ya gotta strait edge it anyways so thats how I do it. Just a matter of how ya like to do it.

Once ya get that lined out, let us know and we'll try to walk ya through the rest, D.
 

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One of the cool things about running an open belt is it doesn't take a lot to remove the engine and or trans. Start from square one with engine and trans alignment/shimming and maybe get rid of the thingy welded to the frame.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Ok well, I removed all bolts from motor and tranny and there was no gap, and no shim required… using a straight edge, there was all four points of contact… with that said there was one bolt (front right tranny mount) that was loose i tightened it and the belt still walks inward… I did however find that theres a bolt hole on the right side of the tranny plate (in between front and rear plate mounts) that does not line of with the hole on the transmission (off by about a half a bolt) and does not have a bolt… I'm being told my issue could be that i have the wrong plate??? straight vs staggered???

Had this set up on my '76 If I remember correctly:

Karata drives will always track slightly outward when set up correctly. The front pulley cover or steel ring keeps the belt from walking completely off. I used to remove the belt by taking that cover off and kicking the motor over and it slowly tracks off..You have an alignment issue. Call him. He was VERY helpful when I was having issues. He knows his product and is the first guy you need advice from.

P.S. Im not saying the advice here is incorrect.

Quick advice ..run a known true straight edge across BOTH sides of the motor pulley and past both sides of the clutch basket if possible. You need the correct length straight edge. If you dont have one get one. The 2 pulleys must be square with each other.

If I remember correctly I wasnt able to lay the edge across both sides ( I believe the clutch basket was further outward or inward) but you can determine if theres any angles forming

This took a while to get sorted out. Its frustrating. It has to be dead nuts.

Your next issue will be belt tension...if the belt is tight and you are running the stock clutch hub/ bearings you are in for another set of issues. (use SEARCH this has been discussed to death here ..you will be scolded/bitch slapped if you start a new thread on this)

I was working with factory motor /trans/ locations...you are not.

But Id call Karata for step one....

If you are running stock clutch hub/ bearings I'd consider a narrower belt. 1 1/2" will have less "outward" pull on the stock bearing or upgrade clutch to a sealed bearing style

I ran the Karata 3" with the stock hub for a year or two and it did work but was always "just" sorta working..Installed Pro Clutch and that solved that. BDL I have now is very good as well.
Ok, before ya go any farther, loosen up the front motor mount bolts and with a feeler gauge (start with .001 and go up from there on both sides of mounting holes), shim as needed and torque back down.

Roach, thanks for bringin up the adjuster, took it for granted.
Buckman, thanks for bringing up the shimming the tranny, again, took it for granted.

On the shimming, be it a stock frame or after market, NEVER, EVER assume that the mounts are square, flat or where they should be, swap meets are full of busted cases because of this!

Bustedlifter is right, an inner will get ya where ya need to be if-1 ya have one and 2 if ya dont mind puttin it on and takin it back off but as Tilngit said, ya gotta strait edge it anyways so thats how I do it. Just a matter of how ya like to do it.

Once ya get that lined out, let us know and we'll try to walk ya through the rest, D.
One of the cool things about running an open belt is it doesn't take a lot to remove the engine and or trans. Start from square one with engine and trans alignment/shimming and maybe get rid of the thingy welded to the frame.
 
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