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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all.
Been here before but encountered technical difficulties so any one who responded to my original post and the thread disappeared apologies.
Just inherited a pile of engine parts. A good friend bought a complete and running 1981 T140 ES and soon after had running and starting issues that he referred to a local mechanic. He had the bike for six months and cleaned the carbs twice in that time but the problem persisted so he went back again after being told the engine needed a rebuild at an estimated cost of £1000.. Hoping to get the bike back at the start of the summer he contacted the mechanic to query progress only to be told he had barely touched it . A week or so later he was contacted by said mechanic only to be told the engine was in poor shape with a bent crankshaft and an estimate of £3000 pus to rebuild if he could find a crankshaft. My own profession, though now recently retired, is workshop machinist, motor heavy and light vehicle technician and have many years of experience dealing with similar problems so I have offered to take the job on as a good will gesture. Motorcycle engines are not my forte but its all basic stuff with quite a few idiosyncrasies that II'm unfamiliar with. The finer details of reassembly I may need some experienced help. Though having said that I have discovered the main issue and have again split the engine, (the previous guy had and reassembled with new camshafts but not removed the main bearings), and after removing the drive side roller bearing found a bodged previous repair where someone had set up in a lathe and knurled the main bearing journal because the bearing had been slipping and worn the journal, and refitted the roller bearing with bearing fit locktite which had also set to one side. However it was done the crank ended up running out on the rotor end by more than .0015". The rotor had signs of rubbing on the alternator stator and vis versa. This also had the effect, with the crank running out of true , to make the timing side have a tight spot which had also worn the outer case support bearing for the intermediate gear . The engine must have been running this way for some time and I would have thought sounded like a bag of nails. I have already learned a great deal and manged to download a parts list and a manual from the internet. I have also managed to source and purchase a crankshaft. I may need some help on the finer points of reassembly so any offers of tips and tricks would be gratefully received.
Here's the first question. The clutch basket and cluthch pack is also a bit of a mystery. It has just five friction plates and the basket also has friction material so when assembling its steel plate first which contradicts everything I've read watched and also the parts list. Has anyone come across this before? The owner never mentioned any clutch issues.

Thanks for reading and look forward to any comments. Will upload images if anyone's interested including a simple home made crankshaft gear pinion puller that worked well and I thought would have to purchase.
 

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It's amazing how much abuse these engines will take and still get down the road.
Yes please to pictures, we are a very visual bunch.
It's been many moons since I was inside my clutch, but, I don't think the basket should have friction on it, unless this was a "new" idea or aftermarket basket. I'm sure someone else will have the answer.
 
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Sounds like you would be best off finding a matching pair of crankcases otherwise you will be fighting a loosing battle with alignment, as for the clutch it sounds like an aftermarket unit as the std has six of each.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thankfully crank case halves are matching Ricky and undamaged.
I have begun the process of splitting the casings and removing the crank to swap out with a replacement and also now unwrapping the many parts to try and locate and identify.
Have a feeling one or two things may be missing with a couple of things that don't belong with the engine.
Expert experienced help on here will be essential especially as this is an ES model with extra casing and more going on..
In the meantime here is an image of the damaged "bodged repair" crankshaft and the one im replacing it with.
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Note how the Loctite bearing fit has flowed to one side of the knurled area and the ridge where the bearing had been spinning as the knurl tool could only do the outer part of the journal.

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The replacement crankshaft - how it should look. Discovered there are two or more grades of bearing to choose from and I will need to replace this one as its to slack a fit on the replacement. This grade bearing is a C2 with tighter running clearances and upgraded to this spec on the later models.
 

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Sorry I got the wrong end of the stick, thought it was the case that had the bearing fit problem, so you have a good crank, so you should be OK for bearing fit, so the rest should be plain sailing, and you should be OK for parts from Hyde and other Brit part suppliers
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Sorry I got the wrong end of the stick, thought it was the case that had the bearing fit problem, so you have a good crank, so you should be OK for bearing fit, so the rest should be plain sailing, and you should be OK for parts from Hyde and other Brit part suppliers
No problem Ricky I worded it a bit odd. The actual worn bush was in the outer case where the intermediate gear pin rotates. Discovered yesterday while checking parts that at some point in its life it has the wrong tappets fitted. The 1981 T140 had the oil supply blanked off to the exhaust tappets and someone had fitted the older design with oil feed holes . T

The joys of working on an old motorbike engine that's had a life or two and had numerous mods over 50 odd years:confused:
An image of the wrong tappets and the cylinder barrel with no oil feed hole just left with the shadow of the old gasket.

Hoping this thread with images may help others who may have similar projects in waiting or on the go.
There's an awful lot to learn from scratch to get it right. Yes its a basic engine but with so many changes and modifications its a bit of a mine field if you are not aware of certain changes and why mistakes can easily be made.
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I won't mention some of the mix and match mods I have done to Triumph motors over the years, then.:whistle:
Please do Ricky always interested in what you can and cant do. Obviously I'm new to bike engines especially of this era and design and Im sure theres plenty you can get away with. Even those tappets tha are the wrong part no with oilway drillings would likely go again though a little pitted but rebuilding for someone else so Ill leave that one to him and advise they are changed. £40 each though x 4 Pretty expensive. Push rod tubes also so many variants I think I counted six types he latest design the simplest with a single o ring at each end the bottom one with a steel band to stop it popping out when loaded.
Looking for a local cylinder rebore shop now passed as good by the previous guy and he even got new rings but not in great shape at all and also already at plus 020". Pic below.
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Only had one T140 most of the Triumph engines I have had have been 650 unit and pre unit, aside from the push rod tubes a lot of the tappet blocks are swappable along with the tappets which come in I think three different profiles depending on what cams are used, and I have reprofiled/restored flowers on a stone before now, piston sets and rod have been swapped between engines as have rocker boxes, in fact I have forgotten so much over the years, I know I spent a lot of time experimenting with cams and cam timing trying to get a very a quick accelerating 650 Bonville.

So I'm afraid due to giving up bikes back in 2000 i kind of forgot a lot as I moved onto playing with mad fast Japanese turbo cars and got into the whole ECU mapping thing as well, so there is only so much the mind will retain before spillage occurso_O
But do ask if you are stuck, and I'll do my best to remember what I can.

Anyway I found a second wind with bikes when a good friend passed away and his family gave me his T160 Trident chop which i duly rebuilt and now ride limited miles in the summer months but at 69 a hard tail is becoming a bit too had core for me especially with British road conditions these days.:(

 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Fabulous bike Ricky a credit to your skills and a great story of your past experiences. I'm just a few years younger, 66 this year and sadly time takes its toll. The body complains a lot more than it used to. Had to move a few large paving slabs this week that I layed 35 years ago. Sure they were a lot lighter back then! :rolleyes:
With you on the Jap tuning not that I have done any personally but have owned a few MX5's and Honda Civics the early ones were begging to be tuned and boosted the manufacturing methods were way ahead of anyone else. The nissan Skylines were awesome cars also. The Japanese certainly know how to make stuff as well as being so bloody reliable. We got left behind a bit there and it cost us. A friend who I used to do work for has restored and part customised a 70's Celica It was a rot box as all Jap cars were of that era now Its an immaculate restored and modified car fitted with a Lexus V8 and completely renovated top to bottom. The guy who did it is a fanatic but spent so much time and his sole into the build hes afraid to use the bloody thing.
Would post a pic but not sure if its against house rules. Its bloody stunning.
Was thinking of refacing and polishing the tappets. The faces appear as tough and as hard as it gets and look to have plenty of thickness to cut back.

Are you talking radius profile on the tappet face for the race cams? I believe the guy who stripped it bought standard cams and they're brand new.
 

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Thanks! Yes know exactly what you mean brain says yes body says are you having a laugh,
Yes reprofiled cam followers to adjust valve opening/dwell along with race cams, but it thinks different model cams were also used, the early followers where stellite tipped ...bloody hard!
I don't think they mind too much about interesting pics even if they are cars, but I could be wrong anyway I'll start of with my old Supra...


 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Bloody gorgeous Ricky- I hope you used it and enjoyed it.
Here's a few pics of the Celica. You both have very high standards of workmanship and attention to detail.
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Very nice too! Especially with the 1UZ motor, have you heard them with throttle bodies?
Yes it got used alright just a mild 550BHP, wish I had never sold it as they seem to have almost trebled in value in the last ten years.
 

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Those are not like the Celicas or Supras I worked on as a Toyota wrench in the early 80's
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Those are not like the Celicas or Supras I worked on as a Toyota wrench in the early 80's
I guess they were more like this TBG. The wreck is the one above before restoration about seven or eight years ago. He only finished it in May last year...
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Long as the topic is wobbling off-center a little bit anyway: Ricky, did you derake the neck on your triple?
 

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I'm surprised, either they are asleep or this is the new touchy feely board. I expected flamethrowers and grenades by now.
 
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I'm surprised, either they are asleep or this is the new touchy feely board. I expected flamethrowers and grenades by now.
No I think it's gone a bit woke here, I got a reprimand for a bit of good-natured piss taking, but it was not seen that way, one of the reasons I don't post much.... I thought this was a biker forum.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Er... a back on subject.....
As you can see its a fairly deep mark likely caused by a seized ring in a rusty bore from standing a long time though I'll never know if that's the case. Also plenty of score marks down both bores one pretty deep. Although not a total disaster the new rings would struggle to bed in even if it were honed smooth and I dont want it using excessive amounts of oil after the rebuild.
Cylinder barrel now now with a machine shop to check and re-bore hopefully one size up from present @ plus .040" but waiting for thenm to confirm before I purchase and supply new pistons.
 
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