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Old 02-02-2015, 10:32 PM   #1
patdoody
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Default Ideas on mounting a tin primary on my 66 shovel

Ive read the other thread on here about it. The bike already had a tin primary on it when I bought it with a 2" belt drive. The p/o had 1.5" spacers between the inner and outer covers to make everything fit... I put a 1.5" belt drive on hoping to close the primary back up... But it hits the way it is now. Looks like the inner primary needs to be spaced away from the motor a bit for it to work. The inner primary also was never any where near the tab on the oil tank. Do I need to make a spacer for between the motor and primary to make this work? I haven't seen anyone else have this problem running a tin type on an early shovel.

You can see what I mean about the spacers in this photo:


Now I am comparing photos I found of pan cases to the case on my shovel and it looks like it is built out more where the front primary bolts too, I am assuming why it looks like my inner primary needs to be spaced out 1/2"


internet picture

My motor.


This is how everything looks spaced out about a half inch off the flats of the motor. Ignore that 3/16" plate in there...

Belt in relation to the inside of the inner primary, when held 1/2" off


gives me a solid 1/8" - 3/16" of space, and it looks like the outer primary cover will bolt up correctly.

Here is a photo of how the previous owner had the inner attached to the bike. Looks pretty on par for how others are doing it.

just a shot of the primary to oil tank tab when the primary is pushed all the way against motor and support bearing.


If anyone was wondering this is the most recent picture I have of it. It was a barnfind that sat for 10years I am trying to get it back on the road for the spring.
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Old 02-03-2015, 06:58 AM   #2
dan r
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Default Re: Ideas on mounting a tin primary on my 66 shovel

with that combination of parts, everything will need to be custom fabricated to fit.

you say 66 engine, is the trans also a 66?
the sprocket shaft on that engine is longer than the tin primary era engines of 64 and older.

I see the trans has an outer support bearing for a 65 and later.
the mainshaft length on that must be longer than any tin primary era without the support. does the belt pulleys line up with each other when installed?

it will be normal that the inner tin primary to need spacers at both, the oil tank and lower frame brackets.

if the tin inner primary is bolted to the oil tank, trans support and bottom frame tab, expect a lot of cracking going on...
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Old 02-03-2015, 09:54 AM   #3
patdoody
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I'd imagine it's a 66 Trans as well I don't know how to tell. It does have a FL shift drum on it. As of now I only planned on mounting the inner to the support bearing and engine case it's no where near close to the other tank, and I am going to run a different oil tank in the future anyway. The belt does line up pretty okay. Maybe an 1/8 off but might be able to play with it a bit more. I haven't really tried to hard because I have been taking it on and off a lot trying to figure this out. I'm really only asking because I have seen in other threads and photos of people using tin primaries on shovels and bolting the inner right to the engine case with what looks like no spacer of any sort. Like I said p/o ran one for years on it tightened to both bearing and case. I am just not a fan of the gap between the inner and outer to make it work.
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Old 02-03-2015, 11:43 AM   #4
ralphiejantz
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Default Re: Ideas on mounting a tin primary on my 66 shovel

Im pretty sure Paughco makes one to fit the 1966-1969 engine cases
I ran one on a customers bike a few years ago, Im almost certain it was Paughco brand,
Here is a Vtwin number VT No: 42-0623 for one (im pretty sure this is the paughco one that Vtwin sells), it accepts any oem or replica style outer cover also
simple easy installation not fab work needed.
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Old 02-03-2015, 04:35 PM   #5
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Default Re: Ideas on mounting a tin primary on my 66 shovel

Thanks for that p/n figures I already bought one for a 55-64 didnt know there was a different one. Looks identical in the pictures. I got the 55-64 one for 70.00 on the egay vtwins is 117.00 time to hunt around I guess.
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Old 02-03-2015, 04:41 PM   #6
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Default Re: Ideas on mounting a tin primary on my 66 shovel



Is this what it looks like or is this for a cone motor?
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Old 02-03-2015, 05:27 PM   #7
Cody Guthrie
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Default Re: Ideas on mounting a tin primary on my 66 shovel

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Originally Posted by patdoody View Post


Is this what it looks like or is this for a cone motor?
That's for a cone motor, as for the rear mount/oil tank bracket put a spring between the two tabs. This is how it was done from the factory to keep the primary's from cracking. Here is what the stock stuff looked like but this probably wont work for you as the bolts/springs wouldn't be long enough since you have to space that primary out so far.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/INNER-PRIMAR...76613c&vxp=mtr
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Old 02-03-2015, 07:07 PM   #8
patdoody
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Default Re: Ideas on mounting a tin primary on my 66 shovel

Thanks for that. I really wish I could find a picture of this 65-69 primary, before I spend coin and its not what I need.
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Old 02-03-2015, 08:01 PM   #9
Cody Guthrie
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Default Re: Ideas on mounting a tin primary on my 66 shovel

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Originally Posted by patdoody View Post
Thanks for that. I really wish I could find a picture of this 65-69 primary, before I spend coin and its not what I need.
Here is Paughco's online catalog, the primary you are after is 753L. They say its 3/16" deeper than a regular primary so I'm not sure if it will work for you.

Its on page 2

http://www.paughco.com/2008-catalog/...09-primary.pdf
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Old 02-03-2015, 08:44 PM   #10
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Default Re: Ideas on mounting a tin primary on my 66 shovel

Ok here is what I see. I see a very thick spacer on the sprocket shaft. This suggests to me that the trans has a 70 and up shaft in it. This would cause the clutch basket and the engine sprocket to stand farther away than if the trans main shaft was of the shorter earlier shaft.
If you were to take a pic of the shaft without the the bearing support I could tell you for certain.
My 69 has the setup you want and my engine pulley is very very close to the engine case. I even had to clearance the pulley so it wouldn't rub the seal area ( not the correct belt drive. I made it work as I have the machines to do that stuff) also my trans has the short kick only shaft.
In short don't buy another primary that's not the problem.
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Old 02-04-2015, 08:55 PM   #11
patdoody
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Default Re: Ideas on mounting a tin primary on my 66 shovel

I popped the support bearing off for you STP let me know what you think. Does everything on the engine output shaft and all look as it should?





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Old 02-04-2015, 10:23 PM   #12
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Default Re: Ideas on mounting a tin primary on my 66 shovel

That trans has the long 70 and up shaft. That is why your primary is sticking out so far. You have 2 choises space the primary out like you are doing or pull the trany and install a 65-69' main shaft. Yours is the 12 1/2" you need one that is 12"
Your sprocket shaft looks correct except the thick spacer on it. If you change main shafts you will need to use a much thinner spacer.
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Old 02-05-2015, 04:48 PM   #13
patdoody
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Default Re: Ideas on mounting a tin primary on my 66 shovel

I might have to get by with spacing it out for now, so I can get the bike running, tuned, and dialed in. The trans leaks a bit so I want to rebuild it at some point any way.. But that leads to my next question... Do they sell those main shafts new? A quick google search didn't come up with much.. Or is that something I am going to have to start hunting down..
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Old 02-05-2015, 05:02 PM   #14
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Default Re: Ideas on mounting a tin primary on my 66 shovel

Quote:
Originally Posted by patdoody View Post
Do they sell those main shafts new?
Yes:

http://www.andrewsproducts.com/image...014-page31.pdf
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Old 02-06-2015, 04:38 PM   #15
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Default Re: Ideas on mounting a tin primary on my 66 shovel

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Originally Posted by HD48FL View Post
This would be the only replacement I would ever use for the mainshaft,
do not buy the cheaper versions, buy an Andrews one they are worth the little bit of extra money.
I have been using Andrews products exclusively on all the transmissions we build and they are outstanding products.
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Old 02-10-2015, 10:07 PM   #16
patdoody
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Default Re: Ideas on mounting a tin primary on my 66 shovel

156.00 is the best I found it for. Not to bad. Ill order one for when I rebuild the trans.

Also turned that spacer that was on the front output shaft. It was 9/16" took 1/4" off of it... the belt lines up perfect. Now that spacer had a larger ID than the splined shaft OD and had a rubber washer of sorts in between the splines and the ID of the spacer. Is this a normal harley or aftermarket thing or is this something someone backyard engineered? Ill probably just turn a new spacer with an ID that fits close to the OD of the splined shaft. Just didn't know if that rubber setup acted as a vibration damper or something.

Going to machine a 5.5" diameter 1/2" spacer to go behind the inner primary cover to get the spacing I need and go from there.
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Old 02-10-2015, 10:59 PM   #17
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Default Re: Ideas on mounting a tin primary on my 66 shovel

yeah that's some backyard rigging for sure. i have the long shaft on my bike and i had to make a spacer up front to get the tins to line up and not hit anything. your on the right track.
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Old 02-12-2015, 10:01 PM   #18
patdoody
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Default Re: Ideas on mounting a tin primary on my 66 shovel

Cool atleast I am not the only one running a spacer like that.
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