Running T120 with open chain primary - The Jockey Journal Board

Go Back   The Jockey Journal Board > General Discussion > The Board

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-29-2015, 12:55 AM   #1
graniteshins44
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Murfreesboro
Posts: 396
Default Running T120 with open chain primary

Aside from keeping the roller bearings greased (still trying to solve that riddle) can anyone tell me any potential issues? I'm not changing over to a belt drive just want to run open chain. Anyone else had luck doing this? Secrets to success?
graniteshins44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 08-29-2015, 09:14 AM   #2
bobscogin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Lacombe, LA
Posts: 1,740
Default Re: Running T120 with open chain primary

What year? From around '69 up the crankcase vents into the primary. Just something to consider. What is it you're trying to achieve by running the primary open?

Bob
bobscogin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2015, 10:07 AM   #3
graniteshins44
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Murfreesboro
Posts: 396
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobscogin View Post
What year? From around '69 up the crankcase vents into the primary. Just something to consider. What is it you're trying to achieve by running the primary open?

Bob
Mine is a 68, so no worries on the 3 vent holes on my application. 2 things I'm trying to achieve...first, no more primary leak. I've tried everything...triple thick gaskets, yamabond, etc, can't get it to seal. Secondly. I think open chain primarys look pretty sweet
graniteshins44 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Old 08-29-2015, 11:22 AM   #4
bobscogin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Lacombe, LA
Posts: 1,740
Default Re: Running T120 with open chain primary

Quote:
Originally Posted by graniteshins44 View Post
Mine is a 68, so no worries on the 3 vent holes on my application. 2 things I'm trying to achieve...first, no more primary leak. I've tried everything...triple thick gaskets, yamabond, etc, can't get it to seal. Secondly. I think open chain primarys look pretty sweet
Well that's good enough for me. If I was going to run it open, I'd go belt. Your going to have to lube the chain some way, and it's going to sling lube on everything. Alternately, if you can't stop the primary leak, just leave the cover on with no oil in it. At least the chain will be protected, and so will your leg.

Bob
bobscogin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2015, 12:19 PM   #5
crush1776
Senior Member
 
crush1776's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Hollywierd, FL
Posts: 520
Default Re: Running T120 with open chain primary

Chain wax and heavy steel toed boots.
crush1776 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2015, 12:42 PM   #6
graniteshins44
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Murfreesboro
Posts: 396
Default

Well that's good enough for me. If I was going to run it open, I'd go belt. Your going to have to lube the chain some way, and it's going to sling lube on everything. Alternately, if you can't stop the primary leak, just leave the cover on with no oil in it. At least the chain will be protected, and so will your leg.

Bob[/QUOTE]

Wouldn't that cause too much heat build up with the cover on and no fluid to cool the chain?
graniteshins44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2015, 12:50 PM   #7
supercrouton
Senior Member
 
supercrouton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: North Mississippi
Posts: 2,035
Default Re: Running T120 with open chain primary

Quote:
Originally Posted by graniteshins44 View Post
Wouldn't that cause too much heat build up with the cover on and no fluid to cool the chain?
The stator is more of a heat concern than the chain. If you run closed and dry, it would be a good idea to include some ventilation for it. Be ready for accelerated wear on basket sprocket and roller bearings. A BNR belt drive is the best solution, however it is also the most expensive solution
__________________
If you were to take out someone's small intestines, and stretch it all the way out end to end, you'd go to jail.



Angry Monkey Motorcycles official website
supercrouton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2015, 04:14 PM   #8
graniteshins44
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Murfreesboro
Posts: 396
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by supercrouton View Post

The stator is more of a heat concern than the chain. If you run closed and dry, it would be a good idea to include some ventilation for it. Be ready for accelerated wear on basket sprocket and roller bearings. A BNR belt drive is the best solution, however it is also the most expensive solution
Good to know. I prob should have been more specific on how I'd like to run it "open" basically, I'd hack off the bottom of the cover using the top line, above the stator cover, as the top mark and cut off everything below it, like the one pictured. I'd also drill holes in the cover as well, for more ventilation. I'd run a dry film chain lubricant on the primary chain as well.
Any thoughts on how to best keep the rollers and basket lubed as much as possible? Type of grease, etc that might work best/last longest.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1599_1440879237063.jpg
Views:	74
Size:	79.3 KB
ID:	190394  
graniteshins44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2015, 04:17 PM   #9
Rob Axel
Senior Member
 
Rob Axel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Savanah Ga.
Posts: 1,596
Default Re: Running T120 with open chain primary

I have read somewhere (I think here) where someone replaced the roller bearings with a sealed bearing...
__________________
"The heart is happiest
When the head and the hand work together" - Jay Lenno
Rob Axel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2015, 07:36 PM   #10
Dave67
Member
 
Dave67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Lake Elsinore / So.Cal.
Posts: 43
Default Re: Running T120 with open chain primary

Did it for about 6 months and in that time I went thru 1 chain and 2 1/2 of the stock tensioners, that rubber/plastic shoe just couldn't hang. I tried all the different lubes with no difference and I had 1 adjuster fail on me out on the road. I wouldn't do it again without going to a belt..... just my 2 pennies
__________________
IG _Dirty_Dave_
Dave67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2015, 02:05 AM   #11
graniteshins44
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Murfreesboro
Posts: 396
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave67 View Post
Did it for about 6 months and in that time I went thru 1 chain and 2 1/2 of the stock tensioners, that rubber/plastic shoe just couldn't hang. I tried all the different lubes with no difference and I had 1 adjuster fail on me out on the road. I wouldn't do it again without going to a belt..... just my 2 pennies
Damn...ok good to know. A $800-$1100, Newby drive or similar ain't in the cards for me. I gotta scratch just to afford dumping ATF in my primary, that quickly leaks and ends up on my back tire...
I may be able to swing one of those $400 belt drives...but I'm still left with the issue of lubing the rollers, thrust washer/basket...
And if the $400 ones are shit, then I'm still in the same dilemma of a non-op primary but $400 poorer for the effort...oh decisions

Last edited by graniteshins44; 08-30-2015 at 02:07 AM.
graniteshins44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2015, 04:38 AM   #12
jer
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Scotland, UK
Posts: 65
Default Re: Running T120 with open chain primary

How about one of these? http://www.scottoiler.com/

(That was meant for your primary chain, re-read post and looks like your not going open now)

Last edited by jer; 08-30-2015 at 04:48 AM. Reason: Read post wrong
jer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2015, 07:00 AM   #13
Truckedup
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Finger Lakes
Posts: 900
Default Re: Running T120 with open chain primary

In my opinion the only reason to run and exposed chain primary on the street is for the "cool" factor. There are ways to make the bike like look sharp other than creating problems with the drive line.
__________________
I ride junk,some of it is fast
Truckedup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2015, 09:27 AM   #14
oilfield money
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Pampa TX.
Posts: 196
Default Re: Running T120 with open chain primary

I had the same issue with my preunit and even though I prefer ATF ,I ended up using straight 20w engine oil . It doesnt pour out like water and I havent had any clutch problems , But I always keep a bolt in behind my clutch lever to keep the plates seperated when not in use .Also try using valve grease on your primary gasket next time . It is some sticky nasty stuff but if it will stop gas vapors from leaking around a ball or gate valve seat it'll stop some oil
oilfield money is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2015, 11:54 AM   #15
Rob Axel
Senior Member
 
Rob Axel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Savanah Ga.
Posts: 1,596
Default Re: Running T120 with open chain primary

Dave....you said you went through multiple tensioners.....anyone thought about fabing a "roller" tensioner? such as the ones most of the ones some of us use on long rear drive chains? Maybe a skate wheel "machined down" to a smaller diameter and width?...
I think that with a good chain wax / o ring / lube would take care of the chain wear... Im still looking for that thread that showed the roller bearings being replaced by a sealed one....I remember the center ring of the clutch basket had to be removed and the sealed bearing fit with minimal machining.....I think it was located at "grainger"....or MC master????
__________________
"The heart is happiest
When the head and the hand work together" - Jay Lenno
Rob Axel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2015, 12:24 PM   #16
graniteshins44
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Murfreesboro
Posts: 396
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Axel View Post
Dave....you said you went through multiple tensioners.....anyone thought about fabing a "roller" tensioner? such as the ones most of the ones some of us use on long rear drive chains? Maybe a skate wheel "machined down" to a smaller diameter and width?...
I think that with a good chain wax / o ring / lube would take care of the chain wear... Im still looking for that thread that showed the roller bearings being replaced by a sealed one....I remember the center ring of the clutch basket had to be removed and the sealed bearing fit with minimal machining.....I think it was located at "grainger"....or MC master????
That's a he'll of an idea! I wonder if the casting of the aluminum on the cases will be strong enough to weld a little arm to with tensioner wheel? Thanks for looking for that sealed bearing thread! Switching that out would help and I may do the open belt...if the $400 belt drives aren't just total shit and a waste of money
graniteshins44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2015, 12:25 PM   #17
graniteshins44
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Murfreesboro
Posts: 396
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Truckedup View Post
In my opinion the only reason to run and exposed chain primary on the street is for the "cool" factor. There are ways to make the bike like look sharp other than creating problems with the drive line.
I agree..however my application has nothing to do with aesthetics and all to do with function. A badly leaking primary dumping oil on the back tire...not the safest.
graniteshins44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2015, 12:26 PM   #18
bobscogin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Lacombe, LA
Posts: 1,740
Default Re: Running T120 with open chain primary

Primary chains run at a much higher feet per minute speed than final drive chains. It would take a very big roller diameter to keep from spinning the bearing into a grenade. I didn't bother with the calculations, but I think it's why you rarely see rollers on primary drives.

Bob
bobscogin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2015, 12:36 PM   #19
Dave67
Member
 
Dave67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Lake Elsinore / So.Cal.
Posts: 43
Default Re: Running T120 with open chain primary

Truckedup: I agree, I thought I looked kinda cool but in the end my wallet and loss of reliability proved it wasn't worth it.

Graniteshins: have you made sure your surfaces are completely flat or tried a different cover. I took a piece of glass from an old end table, stuck on some adhesive backed sand paper and sanded the primary, then removed my startor/rotor etc and used the same glass/sandpaper like a giant sanding block to flatten out the mating surface of my case. Looked funny doing it and I'm sure someone has a better way but at the time I was really tight on money and it worked. A light smear of yamabond and the cover has never leaked since.
__________________
IG _Dirty_Dave_
Dave67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2015, 12:41 PM   #20
Truckedup
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Finger Lakes
Posts: 900
Default Re: Running T120 with open chain primary

Quote:
Originally Posted by graniteshins44 View Post
I agree..however my application has nothing to do with aesthetics and all to do with function. A badly leaking primary dumping oil on the back tire...not the safest.
Fix the leak.....It can a pain with small cracks and stripped cover screw holes. But if cleaned spotlessly , a good modern sealer will work pretty well.You may have to let it cure overnight. Or is the whole primary flange on the engine fucked up beyond repair?
__________________
I ride junk,some of it is fast
Truckedup is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:57 AM.