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Old 09-24-2012, 01:41 PM   #1
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Default H-D Flywheels for sidehack question: Factor?

Folks,

If a set of extremely heavy wheels is to be set up for sidehack duty,
should one favor a high balance factor, or low?

Thanks in advance,

....Cotten
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Old 09-24-2012, 03:36 PM   #2
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Default Re: H-D Flywheels for sidehack question: Factor?

Why ask if you already know the answer?
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Old 09-24-2012, 03:47 PM   #3
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Default Re: H-D Flywheels for sidehack question: Factor?

Maybe I don't.

More than half of what I read about balancing is pure bullshit.

....Cotten


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Last edited by Dragstews; 09-24-2012 at 03:57 PM.
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Old 09-24-2012, 11:23 PM   #4
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Default Re: H-D Flywheels for sidehack question: Factor?

I feel that the more weight would be a factor, you are dealing with a rotating mass that is having more weight added to the circumference of it. The more weight you add farther away from the spinning mass center (bearings) the more the balancing comes into factor. Not only in what your will feel being trasmitted thru the bike, but would cause in an uneven wear of the bearings.

I would feel that I would be causeing premature bearing wear.
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Old 09-25-2012, 08:25 AM   #5
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Default Re: H-D Flywheels for sidehack question: Factor?

Rsssbelair!

By "factor", I meant the fraction, or percentage of the total reciprocating mass that is counterbalanced by the flywheels.

That most basic balancing formula does not address total flymass.
A ten pound set of wheels and a thirty pound set of wheels can both be balanced to the same percentage.

Both the factor, and the mass, however determine the characteristics of the motor's performance.
For instance, we know intuitively that a heavier mass is going to give more resistance to accelleration.
And the factor affects accelleration in terms of the leverage of the top end over the lower.

So should a higher factor be chosen for the heavier wheels, or lower, and why?

Any references beyond anecdotes would be greatly appreciated.

....Cotten
PS: with reference to bearing wear, increased flymass alone dampens many of the eccentric forces upon the bearings, which is why motors are "balanced" in the first place. I expect a longer life for the crank itself.
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Old 09-25-2012, 01:17 PM   #6
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Default Re: H-D Flywheels for sidehack question: Factor?

Since the balance factor is a ratio, would have to lighten the hell out of the crankpin side to maintain a balance factor that will not cause awful engine vibrations. See this:



Going heavier isn't usually done except when factories design 2 stroke trials bike engines. You may not need the heavier crank at all, just a larger rear sprocket.
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Old 09-25-2012, 02:04 PM   #7
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Default Re: H-D Flywheels for sidehack question: Factor?

Ducbsa!

Broaden your perspective, please.

I don't need a high-strung race horse, I need a dutiful draft horse:
a Mack, not a Maserati.

Please understand, a stock Pan can pull a hack on the interstate all day long at 80mph, but I wish to build a motor to last the rest of my life.

That's the only clock I have to beat.

....Cotten
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:27 AM   #8
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Default Re: H-D Flywheels for sidehack question: Factor?

So,...

Any Diesel mechanics on this forum?
What's the factor like for a Mack? or a Caterpillar?

Any thoroughbred sportscar people on this forum?
What's the factor like for a Maserati, or whatever?

TIA....
Or is this just the wrong forum?

....Cotten
PS: Ducbsa!

Now that I think about it,
that pic of flywheels just shows they have a tremendous rod and piston weight problem. (Kind of like the Indian 101 wheel in my attachment.)

Reducing total flymass would require holes in the countermass as well.
Once again, I wish to dramatically increase flymass.
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Last edited by Cotten; 09-26-2012 at 10:40 AM.
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:43 AM   #9
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Default Re: H-D Flywheels for sidehack question: Factor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragstews View Post
Cotten......with all due respect..

Your making a Mountain out of a Molehill with this....

Get a set of T&O Heavy's and be Happy....
Then there wouldn't be a crazy 7 hour story behind the flywheel balancing that went into the bike.
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:46 AM   #10
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Default Re: H-D Flywheels for sidehack question: Factor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragstews View Post
Cotten......with all due respect..

Your making a Mountain out of a Molehill with this....

Get a set of T&O Heavy's and be Happy....
Dragstews!

Did you read my first post in the thread so benevolently locked?

And just maybe, just maybe, even T&O's are not heavy enough for me.
No matter what, my money was spent a quarter century ago, and I have my too-light wheels to make the best of.

This is not for a rich customer, y'know.

You balance motors, right?
Which way should the factor go with extremely light, or extremely heavy, flymass?

....Cotten
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:21 AM   #11
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Default Re: H-D Flywheels for sidehack question: Factor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragstews View Post
Tell you what I'm going to do.....

I will buy those from you for what you paid for them back in 1975...
This way you will have back what money your out for the wheels..

Then you can add a bit more money to that handful I just gave you and get the T&O's.....

......................................Is it a Deal...???.......................................
Let me tell you more about them first, Dragstews!

They are lapped-taper assembled, trued and balanced (gotta find my old spec sheet for the factor to be certain...), with blueprinted OEM rods that I polished-and-peen'd-and-polished-and-peen'd before straightening, magnafluxing, and demagnatizing.
Shafts are for my '65.

Sure I'll take a flat-rate loss at $1275 (plus postage, or I'll deliver free to Davenport next year).
They are pitiful for a hack, so if I cannot fix them, they are a waste for me!

Why does the extreme of a low-end heavy packagetruck motor offend so many on this forum? It seems to only focus upon cosmetics and lifestyling lately, and I soon see freedom of speech to come under attack.

....Cotten

================================================== =================

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cotten View Post
Let me tell you more about them first, Dragstews!

They are assembled, trued and balanced.

...Cotten

Sounds used to me.....

http://youtu.be/EbLxB4urTfc

If it was just the wheels (Unmolested)
The Deal would have been Solid..

Last edited by Dragstews; 09-26-2012 at 01:35 PM.
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:27 AM   #12
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Default Re: H-D Flywheels for sidehack question: Factor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cotten View Post
Why does the extreme of a low-end heavy packagetruck motor offend so many on this forum? It seems to only focus upon cosmetics and lifestyling lately, and I soon see freedom of speech to come under attack.

....Cotten
1. It doesn't offend anyone; your childish insistence that someone give you an answer that you like does though.

2. This is a chopper/vintage custom forum. Like it or not, it seems no one here has used DU to add mass to a flywheel for a sidecar rig. We all apologize.

3. Funny, it seems when you want to shut someone down, it's because they're
clueless, don't know what they're talking about, are interested only in aesthetics, etc. When someone wants to do the same to you, you're the victim of an attack on free speech.
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:42 AM   #13
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Default Re: H-D Flywheels for sidehack question: Factor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Benway
1. It doesn't offend anyone; your childish insistence that someone give you an answer that you like does though.

2. This is a chopper/vintage custom forum. Like it or not, it seems no one here has used DU to add mass to a flywheel for a sidecar rig. We all apologize.

3. Funny, it seems when you want to shut someone down, it's because they're
clueless, don't know what they're talking about, are interested only in aesthetics, etc. When someone wants to do the same to you, you're the victim of an attack on free speech.
They chose wisely with you . . .

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Old 09-26-2012, 11:54 AM   #14
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Default Re: H-D Flywheels for sidehack question: Factor?

Cotten-

I did find this relevant statement while doing a search about sidecar flywheels...

"I have a set of S&S stroker wheels that are just too light for sidecar duty, and I have considered screwing a ring of steel to them. (But geez, a set of T&O "Torquemonsters" would be a lot more convenient!)"
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:55 AM   #15
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Default Re: H-D Flywheels for sidehack question: Factor?

So no none of the motormeisters have a clue about my motor balancing question, and personal attacks are all I reap.

One would think that motors were important to this web community.

I would regret all of the questions that I have answered over the years, in earnest upon this forum,
if it were not for those who appreciated my effort.

But now its a fashion show.


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