Bike stalling at developing and idle sometimes? - The Jockey Journal Board

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Old 06-26-2019, 08:45 PM   #1
misfitJason
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Help me figure out my problem here because I can’t figure it out.

Bike is a custom built softail that I built. I built it with an oem 80 inch evo and up until about a month or two ago it had no problems. I recently bought a brand new s&s v111 and swapped it into the bike. Carb is a super e (same one that I ran on the 80 inch) with a 32 intermediate and 78 main. No adjustable air bleed. I have about three hundred miles on the motor as I type.

The ignition is a dyna S set appropriately for this motor.

I have confirmed I do not have an intake leak and am using all of the appropriate hardware for this carb and motor.

The motor runs excellently except it stalls every so often on decel and sometimes will stall at idle. At any type of acceleration it has no issues and runs strong. When it stalls it coughs. The idle air mixture (whether rich or lean) doesn’t make a difference on the stalling. After it stalls I can start her right back up.

None of these problems existed before he motor swap with all the same parts. I have since rebuilt the carb and changed the coil with no difference. My next thoughts are my mechanical advance (although it turns free and easily) or possibly there is crap in my tanks causing a issue with gas feed. Again I am running the same parts that I was with no problems before.

The spark plugs look good as far as the mixture goes. I even replaced the plug wires. No difference.

Any suggestions that you guys have I would appreciate. Thanks in advance.
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Old 06-27-2019, 08:15 AM   #2
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Default Re: Bike stalling at developing and idle sometimes?

Check your advance weights.
my shovel used to do that at some point in it's life... although the advance weights worked fine and were free, on close examination, the slot where the weights slide into had been chewed up .

Replaced it and sorted it out.

I'll try find a photo of what I mean, I must have it somewhere as I take photos of everything.
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Old 06-27-2019, 04:34 PM   #3
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Default Re: Bike stalling at developing and idle sometimes?

I know you know what you're doing, but your idle speed is nice and high, right? Just checking.

How about your fuel line routing? Sometimes too big a "loop" causes exactly what you're talkin' about.

And what about tank cap venting? Have you verified that with a blow test?
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Old 06-28-2019, 02:46 AM   #4
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Default Re: Bike stalling at developing and idle sometimes?

It wouldnt accelerate if it was a starvation issue, especially under load.

Put a dvom or led test light in line with the ignition’s voltage. Lets see whats happening as it slows and idles. Im assuming it acts like you shut off the key. Can you rev it out of the stall or does it continue until dead and then easily restart? My suspicion is you can on decel only and not always. Maybe if it was coming down from a higher rev can you catch it...

Fuses or Circuit breakers.... what have you?
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Old 06-29-2019, 04:42 AM   #5
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I tore into a couple of things.
















The fuel line was new when I changed the motor and this is how it’s routed. The mechanical advance looks good and moves free.

The cam seal is leaking a little. Will eventually have to change that out. All of the wires coming from the ignition module are intact and good.

That little black boot on the plunger looks like this when I took the picture. I can't remember from memory if it's supposed to be all the way up or not. That could be a possibility.

The butterfly on the carb is nice and tight and not loose.

I don't have time to check the petcock screen or tanks. There could be some crap in there. I would also like to run a compression test on the motor when I take the tanks off to check them for debris. But I'll have to unplug the acrs. Can anybody think of anything else or see anything that jumps out at you?
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Old 06-29-2019, 04:45 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAWS View Post
It wouldnt accelerate if it was a starvation issue, especially under load.

Put a dvom or led test light in line with the ignition’s voltage. Lets see whats happening as it slows and idles. Im assuming it acts like you shut off the key. Can you rev it out of the stall or does it continue until dead and then easily restart? My suspicion is you can on decel only and not always. Maybe if it was coming down from a higher rev can you catch it...

Fuses or Circuit breakers.... what have you?
If I am coming to an idle I can sometimes throttle it out of the stall. Sometimes it will just dies out at idle whether on decel or just sitting there. I can however hold the idle faster to sometimes avoid it. I am running circuit breakers.

My idle is set currently to about 1100
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Old 06-29-2019, 12:07 PM   #7
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Default Re: Bike stalling at developing and idle sometimes?

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It wouldnt accelerate if it was a starvation issue, especially under load.
Disagree with extreme prejudice. Occasional starvation manifests itself just like this.

I'm not saying it's starving, but "it wouldn't accelerate if it was starving" is definitely not a diagnostic certainty.
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Old 06-29-2019, 06:17 PM   #8
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Default Re: Bike stalling at developing and idle sometimes?

There is no way it would run excellent if fuel starvation is a factor. Try shutting off your fuel line and see how good any of your bikes run.
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Old 06-30-2019, 07:40 AM   #9
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There is no way it would run excellent if fuel starvation is a factor. Try shutting off your fuel line and see how good any of your bikes run.
We're getting far afield of this problem, but put a loop in your fuel line that's too long for the manifold vacuum to deal with. Your bike will occasionally simply turn the fuck off when the line inevitably vapor locks. You will be running out of fuel — starving — but it will run like a peach if jetted correctly. I have repaired this problem on multiple bikes. Rich or lean does not seem to matter per Jason, so I've not yet ruled out a fuel supply problem as you have.

Back to the problem at hand... with respect to an intake leak, when you tested it, I am assuming you A) do have a VOES port on the manifold and B) it was tested and verified as sealing? I've used vinyl caps on them which get "greasy" and leak when hot.
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Old 06-30-2019, 07:36 PM   #10
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I am not running a voes and have the ports (2 of them) capped off with polyurethane caps and then zip tied so they won’t come off. I checked the intake seals with a propane tank with negative results.
Everyone keeps telling me to check the bolts on the two sides of the carb that hold the throttle shaft on because they can wear.

The little rubber boot that covers the accelerator pushrod has seen better days. I can shorten up the fuel line and see if that helps. So far I know this

When I set the timing per s&s specs (advance mark leaving the left side of the window) it takes the enrichment to cold start it. I do get starter stall. But it runs well. But it stalls on decel and sometimes at idle randomly

If I advance the timing at the plate a degree or two, it will not require the enrichment to cold start it and the starter stall is less. It runs good here too but the revs hand up when moving, letting off the throttle, and coming to idle. It did not stall though.

Both times idle air screw was adjusted for the timing settings and idle is about a thousand to 1100. I now have 350 miles on the motor. I don’t see any evidence of oil burning on the plugs. On a side note I do notice a little oil mist collecting at the bottom of the teardrop air cleaner.
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Old 06-30-2019, 07:39 PM   #11
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Default Re: Bike stalling at developing and idle sometimes?

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I checked the intake seals with a propane tank with negative results.
Definitely check the throttle shaft, but pressure testing is the only way to be sure... 13-15 psi is more than enough.

I'm not certain this is the issue, but it would be nice to rule that out.
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Old 06-30-2019, 08:09 PM   #12
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Here are some more photos of some other things












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Old 07-01-2019, 05:03 AM   #13
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Default Re: Bike stalling at developing and idle sometimes?

I would replace the VOES caps with thick rubber ones, just to rule out a transient air leak.
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Old 07-01-2019, 12:36 PM   #14
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Default Re: Bike stalling at developing and idle sometimes?

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Originally Posted by misfitJason View Post
s&s v111 and swapped it into the bike. Carb is a super e (same one that I ran on the 80 inch) with a 32 intermediate and 78 main.

Any suggestions that you guys have I would appreciate. Thanks in advance.
A 111" at sea level with a Super E and .032 intermediate jet? I'd be willing to bet a bigger intermediate jet will cure that. Definitely a .033, and even a .036 if the 33 doesn't make a difference.

I've got an 88" shovel that had same symptom. I chased absolutely EVERYTHING else b/c the plugs looked good, and the bike didn't exhibit other symptoms of being too lean, etc. I ran out of other things to do, so I finally went from a .031 to a .032, and that the symptom finally went away. And even then I went up to a .033, and the motor was even happier when coming down off idle.
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Old 07-01-2019, 05:29 PM   #15
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Default Re: Bike stalling at developing and idle sometimes?

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I would replace the VOES caps with thick rubber ones, just to rule out a transient air leak.


I ordered up some new ones.
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Old 07-01-2019, 05:32 PM   #16
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Default Re: Bike stalling at developing and idle sometimes?

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A 111" at sea level with a Super E and .032 intermediate jet? I'd be willing to bet a bigger intermediate jet will cure that. Definitely a .033, and even a .036 if the 33 doesn't make a difference.

I've got an 88" shovel that had same symptom. I chased absolutely EVERYTHING else b/c the plugs looked good, and the bike didn't exhibit other symptoms of being too lean, etc. I ran out of other things to do, so I finally went from a .031 to a .032, and that the symptom finally went away. And even then I went up to a .033, and the motor was even happier when coming down off idle.


I have a 33 at home I think. I will give it a shot. I am leaving for a nice vacation coming up and will dick with it more when I get back.


My gameplan for now is.... I am going to order a new rubber seal for the accelerator pump rod and when I have it disassembled I am going to check on that throttle shaft for starters. Shorten up the fuel line, run a compression check, and check the fuel tank for debris. CHeck the petcock screen.
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Old 07-02-2019, 07:31 AM   #17
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Default Re: Bike stalling at developing and idle sometimes?

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I have a 33 at home I think. I will give it a shot. I am leaving for a nice vacation coming up and will dick with it more when I get back.


My gameplan for now is.... I am going to order a new rubber seal for the accelerator pump rod and when I have it disassembled I am going to check on that throttle shaft for starters. Shorten up the fuel line, run a compression check, and check the fuel tank for debris. Check the petcock screen.
That accelerator pump boot just keeps grime out. Trust me- easiest (and cheapest) thing to try is swapping the intermediate jets. And if i were you, i'd go ahead and order a .036 too. I'm not a betting man, but my money is on the fact that upping the intermediate will make the problem go away.
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Old 07-02-2019, 07:41 PM   #18
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With the advanced timing (by about two degrees) it has not stalled on me at all. However, it is breaking up just off of idle or at low rpms. Like it’s missing. The acceleration is not as strong as the recommended timing. But it is waaaaaaay easier to start!

So with a bit more timing she doesn’t stall but is not as smooth off of idle. Any new suggestions with this new found info. Still think larger intermediate jet? I just realized that I never told you guys what exhaust I was running. It’s a kerker supermeg 2-1. And the idle air adjuster screw is at 1 1/2 turns out.
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Old 07-10-2019, 07:06 PM   #19
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Default Re: Bike stalling at developing and idle sometimes?

Take the intermediate up one or two. If you plan on keeping the bike for a long time just get yourself a jet kit. If you’re anything like me you’ll change the exhaust many times over the duration and will possibly need to go up or down in jet sizes each time.
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Old 07-11-2019, 02:00 PM   #20
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I also ordered up a replacement s&s rubber fuel line. I am going to in a specified order replace some parts in this order so I can see if one of these fixes it:

Scope the cylinders and run a compression check once one of the tanks halves are off. Then go from there.

Check petcock screen and debris in tanks

Replace the bellows seal and fuel line

Replace intermediate jet with a little bit richer.

Change out gas tank cap with vent

Change out mechanical advance

Replace ignition as necessary
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