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Old 05-29-2016, 04:34 PM   #1
sugarlou
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Default Shovel start issue

Bike is warm or hot.

I kick start and it sputters. If it doesn't start on that kick but sputters I'm looking at taking my helmet off and breaking a sweat to get it to light again.

This weekend it did the sputter thing and I removed the air cleaner. The accelorator pump is throwing NO fuel. ( S&S Super E )

Is that "normal"?

If the bike is hot does it somehow prevent the pump from working to avoid flooding? Is it vapor locked? . I don't get it. Throws fuel fine while running or cold starting.

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Old 05-29-2016, 04:47 PM   #2
magnum45pete
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Default Re: Shovel start issue

it should pump all the time you open the throttle.hot or cold....
, you may have a bad pump plunger, ....or an air lock in ya fuel line,.....or a blockage in fuel flow,...even a blocked vent in the gas cap.
check each one by one ....if you have an inline fuel filter, it could be either blocked or restricting flow.....
I personaly dont like S&S carbs, piss poor carb from the stone age in my book, but many seem to like them and get them running well enough for most uses.... if ya can, I'd say fit a Mikuni or a Harley CV carb, so much easier to start with than an S&S...$00.02 ........
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Old 05-29-2016, 04:55 PM   #3
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Default Re: Shovel start issue

As Pete said dude it could be a blockage or it could be the plunger isn't being actuated, check for the adjustment. My pan starts hot and cold first or second kick with a shorty E. I don't like the E I'll be honest, it's too big for a standard 74CI. As a starting point I wind my accel pump screw out 3 turns. My pan seems to like it there with no flat spots.

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Old 05-29-2016, 05:01 PM   #4
sugarlou
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Default Re: Shovel start issue

Wait though. It throws fuel cold and when running...It has to be locking somehow. Im not running a fuel filter. The cap appears to be venting . I tried with the cap off.
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Old 05-29-2016, 05:06 PM   #5
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Default Re: Shovel start issue

It could be the adjustment, mine did that. Check it over. Yeah a fuel filter is probably a good idea man! fuel is full of nasty these days.
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Old 05-29-2016, 05:08 PM   #6
sugarlou
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Default Re: Shovel start issue

Wind it in till it seats then 3 turns out?

I just searched the Mikuni ...$800 beans ? ouch
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Old 05-29-2016, 05:24 PM   #7
magnum45pete
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Default Re: Shovel start issue

An HSR 42 Mikuni should be around $300-$350 ..... look on ebay, plenty there, or around $240 for a Mikuni VM .....
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Old 05-29-2016, 05:33 PM   #8
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Default Re: Shovel start issue

http://www.jpcycles.com/product/402-890

?
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Old 05-29-2016, 05:53 PM   #9
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Default Re: Shovel start issue

ya dont need most of that kit,
just the carb and the rubber manifold adaptor,
fit whatever air cleaner ya want...
the adaptor is $28 and the carb usualy comes with the filter adaptor that lets you fit CV type filters
so about $360 ish total,...
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Old 05-29-2016, 06:01 PM   #10
sugarlou
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Default Re: Shovel start issue

I have the S&S manifold though
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Old 05-29-2016, 07:31 PM   #11
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Default Re: Shovel start issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarlou View Post
Wind it in till it seats then 3 turns out?

I just searched the Mikuni ...$800 beans ? ouch
Yeah about 3 turns out dude, runs sweet for me. I mean the tester is to do about 50 MPH let off the throttle in 4th and snap it full open, if the bike doesn't cough or die and picks up, it's set pretty good. I want a Link 74B on mine. Once I've bought my springer forks I'll be on the hunt for one.
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Old 05-29-2016, 10:41 PM   #12
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Default Re: Shovel start issue

Used CV carbs in good shape are very reasonable and so are rebuild kits. I forget the member here who said he was thankful for aftermarket carbs because it got him lots of good cheap stockers, but he's no fool.
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Old 05-30-2016, 04:16 AM   #13
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Default Re: Shovel start issue

I just cleaned my carb after not touching it for years
bike was getting hard to start and a little cough here and there.
Nothing was blocked inside but all brass bits(jets etc were green and furry)
i cleaned all with scotchbrite on tooth picks replaced in line filter and rubber boot on acc. pump arm(CV)
now runs perfectly (I'm amazed)
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Old 05-30-2016, 04:37 AM   #14
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Default Re: Shovel start issue

The crap and ethanol in petrol now. I looked in my tank the other day and all I could see was bits floating in it from the eth. Awful stuff now there's no lead in it. As Rich said above it's handy to clean it and 100% use a filter.
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Old 05-30-2016, 08:43 AM   #15
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Default Re: Shovel start issue

Is your fuel line near the engine? When the bike is sitting and there's no airflow it could be heating up and causing a bit of vapor lock.
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Old 05-30-2016, 10:19 AM   #16
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Default Re: Shovel start issue

Is the fuel line running between the jugs? If so it has to be pretty much dead nuts centered to keep it from overheating. Running it through a piece of bigger hose or the corrugated tubing that comes with the E carb (used to come with the Es anyhow) will prevent the locking up. Do you have the heat spacer between the carb and manifold? Apparently it's not the case here but I've been told often that external filters are a point for vapor lock. They seem to attract heat.

My shovel is not a kick start bike but it likes a CV so much mo better than the two Es I ran on it.
.02


edit: You can get a hard press-on adapter for a CV to bolt to a stock or S&S manifold. I have only seen them on eBay. I have used them on 40 and 44mm CVs. Slick as shit, no rubbers to leak.

Last edited by 76shuvlinoff; 05-30-2016 at 10:35 AM.
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Old 05-30-2016, 01:11 PM   #17
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Default Re: Shovel start issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by 76shuvlinoff View Post
Is the fuel line running between the jugs? If so it has to be pretty much dead nuts centered to keep it from overheating. Running it through a piece of bigger hose or the corrugated tubing that comes with the E carb (used to come with the Es anyhow) will prevent the locking up. Do you have the heat spacer between the carb and manifold? Apparently it's not the case here but I've been told often that external filters are a point for vapor lock. They seem to attract heat.

My shovel is not a kick start bike but it likes a CV so much mo better than the two Es I ran on it.
.02


edit: You can get a hard press-on adapter for a CV to bolt to a stock or S&S manifold. I have only seen them on eBay. I have used them on 40 and 44mm CVs. Slick as shit, no rubbers to leak.
That's good to know.

Maybe it's time to get rid of the Super E and put a CV on my pan. All the cv's I see are for late sportster models? Would these also work on my Pan?
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Old 05-30-2016, 04:32 PM   #18
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Default Re: Shovel start issue

yes
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Old 05-30-2016, 05:51 PM   #19
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Default Re: Shovel start issue

I usually fold a sheet of beer can around the fuel hose where it goes between da jugs. Works fine.

BTW only use "fuel injection hose" because the garbage sold as generic "fuel line" is not ethanol resistant. It gradually crumbles and cracks. I won't use it on my lawn mower.

Cut lengths of injection hose are cheaper via Ebay than local auto stores.

I've run external plastic 90-degree filters for decades in hot weather. No vapor lock or other problems. The amount of crap they stopped is scary.

I started using Hengst H103WK filters off Ebay since they are slimmer than the old Toyota filter style I used to run. They were originally for Mercedes but work nicely on Harleys and they are like 8 bucks a pair shipped. Brass screen instead of pleats so you can look at ALL the trash.

Not thread crapping because it may help the original poster: Any suggestions for CV jetting for an 80" Shovel with a mild cam (grind unknown, late wife built the motor) and (probably Cycle Shack) turnout pipes? It didn't have any issues with an E but I like to experiment.
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Old 05-30-2016, 06:29 PM   #20
magnum45pete
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Default Re: Shovel start issue

I Picked this up last year, gonna go on my Shovelhead when i change the tank (wont fit with Fat Bobs !!)......... Brand new in the Box from about 1975........










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