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Old 04-15-2013, 09:09 PM   #1
astek
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Default Bonneville & LSR Update

" I build my engines and balance my crankshafts. I redesign, rebuild and flow the cylinder heads in my own workshop and tune all my engines by myself.

Basically no one knows my balance factors, cams, cam timing, ignition timing, fuel types (in the fuel class) tolerances, clearances, specs, flow rates, hp... "

I started the new race bike build. I am running 650cc Modified Vintage Gas (m-vg), the frame is a original 1952 Triumph Thunderbird with no modifications. I already rebuild the engine, most likely 45-50hp with 11-1 compression. I'm aiming for +130mph, in 2012 I went up to 123mph with lots of issues.

Here is the new aluminum oil and fuel tank i fabricated for this season, I still need to weld the bungs/tabs.
We named it the "Manta RAYs Tank"









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Old 04-15-2013, 11:28 PM   #2
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Ohhh Yeah!! Looking good Alp. Forgive my Triumph ignorance but is a Tbird a 500 or 650? Either way you've set yourself a serious target. Hope to see you there. The best of luck. Kepp the updates coming.
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El Mirage record 500 APS/PG 129.817 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PG 122.240 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PF 120.157 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PG 119.667 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PF 117.186 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBG 111.494 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBF 112.717 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PF 128.703 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PG 121.553 mph
El Mirage record 650 SC/PG 130.224 mph
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Old 04-16-2013, 12:02 AM   #3
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoofhearted View Post
Ohhh Yeah!! Looking good Alp. Forgive my Triumph ignorance but is a Tbird a 500 or 650? Either way you've set yourself a serious target. Hope to see you there. The best of luck. Kepp the updates coming.
Thanks Bill, it is a 650 (i just added the info). The SCTA Bonneville record is 128mph and El Mirage is 132mph. Both 650cc records belong to a larger cc flathead Indian.
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Old 04-16-2013, 01:17 AM   #4
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Eric Vaughn's Indian. He got it to fly and then retired it almost as quick. Maybe you should go after the fuel record. 4 mph less to have to find : - ). That's going to be a tough row to hoe. To go off on a tangent (but relative). I saw this video on landracing. Its an oldie but goodie. Well worth a look. I know streamlining is extremely limited in modified but whatever you can do to reduce drag will help you get there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftq8jTQ8ANE

I found it an eye opener. And am trying to apply a few things to the sidecar. I'm chasing 134 at El Mirage. But only 121 at Bonneville.
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El Mirage record 500 APS/PG 129.817 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PG 122.240 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PF 120.157 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PG 119.667 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PF 117.186 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBG 111.494 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBF 112.717 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PF 128.703 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PG 121.553 mph
El Mirage record 650 SC/PG 130.224 mph
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Old 04-16-2013, 01:48 AM   #5
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Yes, Eric Vaughn's Indian, the record is from 1998.. tough numbers to achieve on a naked 650 but i love the challenge, Your numbers are very impressive for a single 500cc too..
By the way that video is great.
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Old 04-16-2013, 07:37 AM   #6
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Hi, Nice looker...

If you run the std frame, why the modified class?

Patrick
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:02 AM   #7
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Looking good
Did you remember the minimum 5 liter/1,32 gallons fuel capacity? (7.F)
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:29 AM   #8
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

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Originally Posted by thefrenchowl View Post
Hi, Nice looker...

If you run the std frame, why the modified class?

Patrick
Patrick. In the production class the frame, tank, seat etc. must be std. Once Alp starts to make his own bits and pieces for it it goes into modified. The frame can be std but with all the other changes move it into modified.

One of the rules I'm sure you are familiar with the same engine/frame manufacturer rule. Because of that rule my absolutely standard featherbed frame Norton with a Weslake single in it is classified as A (special construction).

Ivan, Your tank going to be OK?
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El Mirage record 500 APS/PG 129.817 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PG 122.240 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PF 120.157 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PG 119.667 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PF 117.186 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBG 111.494 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBF 112.717 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PF 128.703 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PG 121.553 mph
El Mirage record 650 SC/PG 130.224 mph
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Old 04-16-2013, 12:43 PM   #9
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Ivan, Your tank going to be OK?[/QUOTE]
Oh yes, close to 7 liters. Not nearly as good looking as Astek's though
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:38 PM   #10
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Looking good already!

Where'd you source that back wheel with the small disk and sprocket?
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Old 04-17-2013, 01:56 AM   #11
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Thanks guys,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasmussen View Post
Looking good
Did you remember the minimum 5 liter/1,32 gallons fuel capacity? (7.F)
Good question, it wasn't simple to achieve the required capacity but each side is close to 3/4 gallons.
Are you bringing your bike this summer to Bonneville?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MANGOLD View Post
Looking good already!

Where'd you source that back wheel with the small disk and sprocket?
Rim is a 19" alloy from a British parts supplier, I modified a 40 hole front hub, and used a blank sprocket, spokes are Buchanan and the rotor/brake set-up is out of a dirt bike.
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Old 04-17-2013, 10:47 AM   #12
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Quote:
Originally Posted by astek View Post
Good question, it wasn't simple to achieve the required capacity but each side is close to 3/4 gallons.
Are you bringing your bike this summer to Bonneville?
Glad to hear that! Would suck to have to replace it because of forgetting about the capacity rule
No, not this year. Last years trip took a large chunk out of my savings, but sure hope to be there in 2014
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Old 04-22-2013, 05:47 PM   #13
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Mock-up phase,

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Old 04-22-2013, 06:35 PM   #14
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Alp, I notice that in your first post you said you are going to run Modified. If so your foot rest position is illegal and you might want to check your seat height.
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El Mirage record 500 APS/PG 129.817 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PG 122.240 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PF 120.157 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PG 119.667 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PF 117.186 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBG 111.494 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBF 112.717 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PF 128.703 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PG 121.553 mph
El Mirage record 650 SC/PG 130.224 mph
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Old 04-22-2013, 06:51 PM   #15
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

I'll be running a Triumph 650cc modified gas pushrod....Seat can be lower than the top of the tire if it came that way when new . And the foot pegs need to be 6 inches in front of the rear axle. Fender or seat needs to cover the rear tire to the axle vertical line.
Very fine looking machine...
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:15 PM   #16
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoofhearted View Post
Alp, I notice that in your first post you said you are going to run Modified. If so your foot rest position is illegal and you might want to check your seat height.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Truckedup View Post
I'll be running a Triumph 650cc modified gas pushrod....Seat can be lower than the top of the tire if it came that way when new . And the foot pegs need to be 6 inches in front of the rear axle. Fender or seat needs to cover the rear tire to the axle vertical line.
Very fine looking machine...
That's all correct, and i already made the M-VG class seat and rear sets last year. This image is from 2012. I'll be using the same set-up.


This bike will also run at El Mirage and there is no M class there, all modified is considered as class A, so i wanted to experiment with some different set ups, but all will be interchangeable so i can run A-VG at Bonneville as well if I want to.
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Old 04-22-2013, 08:12 PM   #17
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Glad to hear that. Its a pain to get to Bonneville and find out something is wrong. Hope to see you at El Mirage (and Bonneville).
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El Mirage record 500 APS/PG 129.817 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PG 122.240 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PF 120.157 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PG 119.667 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PF 117.186 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBG 111.494 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBF 112.717 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PF 128.703 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PG 121.553 mph
El Mirage record 650 SC/PG 130.224 mph
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Old 04-22-2013, 11:16 PM   #18
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

good god i need to build a salt bike
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Old 04-23-2013, 12:36 AM   #19
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

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Originally Posted by Hoofhearted View Post
Glad to hear that. Its a pain to get to Bonneville and find out something is wrong. Hope to see you at El Mirage (and Bonneville).
Yes, we will be at El Mirage next month, not much time left until May 18th, need to finish this bike as soon as possible.

Hey Truckedup, are you after the SCTA or AMA M-PG record?
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Old 04-23-2013, 01:22 AM   #20
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

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good god i need to build a salt bike
And there's a reason why you're not?


Alp. I saw Truckedup's build on another forum and I believe he is using '70 cases. You think you're not ready? I haven't even got the sidecar attached and am still waiting for approval of the sidecar wheel. And 101 other things to do.
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El Mirage record 500 APS/PG 129.817 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PG 122.240 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PF 120.157 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PG 119.667 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PF 117.186 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBG 111.494 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBF 112.717 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PF 128.703 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PG 121.553 mph
El Mirage record 650 SC/PG 130.224 mph
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:40 PM   #21
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

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And there's a reason why you're not?
i do have the current SCTA rulebook and i 96 suzuki gs500 sittin in the garage i've been thinking of building an M-P500 or M-G500 bike out of...as soon as my shovel is rideable
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:31 AM   #22
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

A shovel is an acceptable excuse. M/G 500 records are pretty stiff but if you have a look at the M/BG and MPS/BG records are very attainable. Hope to see it out some time in the near future.
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El Mirage record 500 APS/PG 129.817 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PG 122.240 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PF 120.157 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PG 119.667 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PF 117.186 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBG 111.494 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBF 112.717 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PF 128.703 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PG 121.553 mph
El Mirage record 650 SC/PG 130.224 mph
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Old 04-24-2013, 05:52 PM   #23
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

my plan is to go M/P or G the first year, get my feel for it...long term i want to build a MPS/BG or BF 500...read a lot but not sure if the gs500 would be a wise choice powerplant wise for that endeavor...and if im bike shopping to build MPS/BG i might go a different size ro something but yea the MPS/BG record looks very do-able...i've talked about it in the past with my pops (aerospace engineer) and he said he'd be game to help me with the streamlining part
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Old 05-08-2013, 02:40 AM   #24
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Gas tank details:





And less than two weeks left until El Mirage..
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Old 05-08-2013, 11:51 AM   #25
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Nice job Alp.
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El Mirage record 500 APS/PG 129.817 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PG 122.240 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PF 120.157 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PG 119.667 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PF 117.186 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBG 111.494 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBF 112.717 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PF 128.703 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PG 121.553 mph
El Mirage record 650 SC/PG 130.224 mph
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:25 AM   #26
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

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Nice job Alp.
thanks Bill,

Not quite done yet, still have to finalize the shape of the rear set brackets and some other little items.

this is the A-VG set up for next week El Mirage.
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:49 AM   #27
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Oh how I love you speed demons....you guys build the most functional stuff out of thin air. Outrageous craftsmanship.

Unlike me who is a hack and a caveman.

Good luck next week and too bad bonnie don't have a black line anymore...keep it between the cones!
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Old 05-09-2013, 10:32 AM   #28
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Jaws. Alp is an outrageous craftsman. I have an angle grinder.
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El Mirage record 500 APS/PG 129.817 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PG 122.240 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PF 120.157 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PG 119.667 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PF 117.186 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBG 111.494 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBF 112.717 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PF 128.703 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PG 121.553 mph
El Mirage record 650 SC/PG 130.224 mph
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Old 05-09-2013, 05:25 PM   #29
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Hey Truckedup, are you after the SCTA or AMA M-PG record?
MPG 650 class. The Bonneville record is 124 mph.I think the record holder runs an eight valve head Triumph ? Anyways,124 is pretty lofty for beginners like my rider and me in that thin air . The Bub meet record is a little less.
We plan to run ECTA at Ohio Mile the beginning of June,then there's the LSR in Maine. Both are paved.
I built the engine more for durability than ultimate power.
How about you? What going on inside that Pre Unit? I know race guys don't want to reveal any secrets
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Old 05-17-2013, 03:25 AM   #30
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MPG 650 class. The Bonneville record is 124 mph.I think the record holder runs an eight valve head Triumph ? Anyways,124 is pretty lofty for beginners like my rider and me in that thin air . The Bub meet record is a little less.
We plan to run ECTA at Ohio Mile the beginning of June,then there's the LSR in Maine. Both are paved.
I built the engine more for durability than ultimate power.
How about you? What going on inside that Pre Unit? I know race guys don't want to reveal any secrets
Good luck at Bonneville, maybe i'll see you.
I just finished the bike, we will be at the lake bed later today to go through inspection. So far i do not think i have any secrets, just some experimental mods. Not quite sure yet if they will turn into secrets, will let you know

Detail of the finished rear set/bracket:

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Old 05-17-2013, 03:37 AM   #31
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Looks great Alp, I wish you all the best, I sure would like to do a run there myself!

Cheers Dan.
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Old 05-21-2013, 01:47 PM   #32
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Looks great Alp, I wish you all the best, I sure would like to do a run there myself!

Cheers Dan.
Thanks Dan!! btw I like your websites homepage image very much,, seems familiar...
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Old 05-21-2013, 02:09 PM   #33
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

We had a great weekend, The freshly build pre unit iron head motor achieved a official speed of 124mph.
There are a few things i need to change but overall it's fine and it seems like the engine still has some more juice in it. We will see by the next race in june.

And my new alloy clutch set-up worked extremely well, (Thanks Druff from Franz & Grubb Engine). If you're building any high perf triumph stuff give this guy a call fagengine.com

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Old 05-21-2013, 04:36 PM   #34
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Congrats Alp!!! A great number for the first time out. And nothing broke. A bonus!! Sorry I didn't make it but I am still waiting for the OK on the sidecar wheel. No point in hauling and be told you can't run. June isn't that far away.
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El Mirage record 500 APS/PG 129.817 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PG 122.240 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PF 120.157 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PG 119.667 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PF 117.186 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBG 111.494 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBF 112.717 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PF 128.703 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PG 121.553 mph
El Mirage record 650 SC/PG 130.224 mph
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Old 07-15-2013, 01:21 PM   #35
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

I was at El Mirage yesterday (had patrol duty). Congrats again Alp!!! 126+. Three solid runs.
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El Mirage record 500 APS/PG 129.817 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PG 122.240 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PF 120.157 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PG 119.667 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PF 117.186 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBG 111.494 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBF 112.717 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PF 128.703 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PG 121.553 mph
El Mirage record 650 SC/PG 130.224 mph
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Old 07-15-2013, 07:24 PM   #36
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

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I was at El Mirage yesterday (had patrol duty). Congrats again Alp!!! 126+. Three solid runs.
Thank you Bill, I was trying to get a fourth run when you saw us.

I am more than happy about the the 126.78mph @ 5462ft da this bike achieved, but there are some issues i need to take care of. When this bike came out on to the market in 1950 it had less than 30hp on the rear wheel, and now with the 63 year old original frame I do not feel very comfortable. But this is why the modified vintage class records are so tough. Especially when you're competing against 1000cc indian and harleys in the 650cc class!
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Old 07-15-2013, 07:55 PM   #37
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Eric Vaughn's 1000 cc Indian was a particularly fast one. but look at it this way. Your second or third time out (can't remember) and you are only 7 mph short of the record. IIRC he set that record with a pretty good tailwind. Oct or Nov. meets sometimes have really good tailwinds that can be worth 10-12 mph.

I was doing patrol about a third of the way up the course. Your engine sounded strong the whole way. A little help from Mother Nature and a strong engine can work wonders.
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El Mirage record 500 APS/PG 129.817 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PG 122.240 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PF 120.157 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PG 119.667 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PF 117.186 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBG 111.494 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBF 112.717 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PF 128.703 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PG 121.553 mph
El Mirage record 650 SC/PG 130.224 mph
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Old 07-16-2013, 05:33 AM   #38
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Man I like that, very nice work.
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Old 07-16-2013, 11:18 AM   #39
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

If you run the std frame, why the modified class?

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Old 07-16-2013, 12:16 PM   #40
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

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Originally Posted by gnjxgjgtrhu View Post
If you run the std frame, why the modified class?

Alp has done a series of mods to the rest of the bike that puts him in modified. But at El Mirage there is no modified class so he has to run in A which is special construction. A bit of a handicap but that's the way it is. Alp is a very skilled buildere and I have no doubt he will eventually find the extra bit of speed needed. It only took ten years to get my first record there LOL! My Norton runs a bone stock featherbed frame and is in special construction.
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El Mirage record 500 APS/PG 129.817 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PG 122.240 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PF 120.157 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PG 119.667 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PF 117.186 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBG 111.494 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBF 112.717 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PF 128.703 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PG 121.553 mph
El Mirage record 650 SC/PG 130.224 mph
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Old 07-16-2013, 03:26 PM   #41
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Bonneville ain't gonna happen for us this year.Next year should be a go with the Triumph or the soon to be built 1000 Moto Guzzi
We always think Bonneville but what about El Mirage? It's a plane trip for us no matter what,with the bike and tools being driven out....We run in modified production so will have to deal with it.
Are there "naked" bikes running Altered?
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Old 07-16-2013, 04:26 PM   #42
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Yes. There are "open" (unstreamlined) and Partial Streamlined classes.
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El Mirage record 500 APS/PG 129.817 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PG 122.240 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PF 120.157 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PG 119.667 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PF 117.186 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBG 111.494 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBF 112.717 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PF 128.703 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PG 121.553 mph
El Mirage record 650 SC/PG 130.224 mph
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Old 07-16-2013, 08:51 PM   #43
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

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Originally Posted by Truckedup View Post
Bonneville ain't gonna happen for us this year.Next year should be a go with the Triumph or the soon to be built 1000 Moto Guzzi
We always think Bonneville but what about El Mirage? It's a plane trip for us no matter what,with the bike and tools being driven out....We run in modified production so will have to deal with it.
Are there "naked" bikes running Altered?
The El Mirage season starts and ends with a two day event. The May and November meets are pretty big. Inspection is on Friday, racing is on Saturday and Sunday.. There are many racers from different states. I think your Triumph would run A-PG 650cc at EM.
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Old 07-16-2013, 09:03 PM   #44
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Quote:
Originally Posted by Truckedup View Post
Bonneville ain't gonna happen for us this year.Next year should be a go with the Triumph or the soon to be built 1000 Moto Guzzi
We always think Bonneville but what about El Mirage? It's a plane trip for us no matter what,with the bike and tools being driven out....We run in modified production so will have to deal with it.
Are there "naked" bikes running Altered?
Check out ECTA for info in Ohio. Might be a good place to try out your build, Truck.
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Old 07-17-2013, 05:08 AM   #45
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Check out ECTA for info in Ohio. Might be a good place to try out your build, Truck.
Frosty,my Triumph is the current ECTA 650 MPG record holder. We'll be back there in September.For those never at the Ohio or Loring Maine you should go. These are serious LSR events equal to any.

ASTEK, and Hoof,thanks for the El Mirage info.
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Old 07-17-2013, 06:56 PM   #46
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Truck, didn't know about your record. Congrats. I'll be there Sept. 28-29th as a spectator for the first time. 6 hr drive compared to a 24 hr drive to Bonneville. When it gets closer to the event I might contact you for newbe info, if that's OK.
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Old 07-18-2013, 05:04 AM   #47
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Frosty,sure,no problem.
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Old 07-31-2013, 05:46 PM   #48
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Leaving for Bonneville in a week. Can't wait. Anyone got a salt report yet?

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Old 07-31-2013, 06:14 PM   #49
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Leaving for Bonneville in a week. Can't wait. Anyone got a salt report yet?
Here you go ,,, Seems all OK..

We are leaving next week friday 2-3:00 am so we can make it the same day for the tech insp.
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Old 08-01-2013, 06:47 PM   #50
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Thanks ALp. See you out there.
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Old 08-03-2013, 12:47 PM   #51
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

We're off to BUB this year, bike gets shipped Thursday, we will follow on the 20th.

We started the bike today for the first time, and Monday we are on the track for a shakedown run. It is 650cc running on Methanol. See you there those that are going.

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Old 08-03-2013, 02:08 PM   #52
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Great Peter, Glad to see that you'll make it this year. I always loved the bikes you build especially this LSR bike and the red rigid p/u Drag bike!!

I guess you are running A-PF? See you on the salt flats,, Have a safe trip and good luck..


Quote:
Originally Posted by peterdallan View Post
We're off to BUB this year, bike gets shipped Thursday, we will follow on the 20th.

We started the bike today for the first time, and Monday we are on the track for a shakedown run. It is 650cc running on Methanol. See you there those that are going.

Peter
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London, England

http://youtu.be/7h69H5Esggo
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Old 08-03-2013, 05:34 PM   #53
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Hi ALp,

Thanks for the compliments, actually we follow your builds too and like them very much.

We are running A-PF and might run APS-PF too depending on how we get on. We have the mounts to fit a Hagon nose cone, except we have modified the small porthole to a full screen as the porthole maybe fine for 10 second 1/4 mile, but not for trying to stay straight for 5 miles. Either way the nose cone isn't going to make a difference I'm sure, just a bit of fun.

Are you going to BUB? If so please look for the 20' flagpole and Union Jack and come and say hi.

Peter
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Old 08-04-2013, 11:50 AM   #54
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

The Epsom salt LSR bike ,
Thanks for the compliments from you guys on the two bikes i built at my shop for Peter,
And a Big thanks to Peter for commisioning the build of LSR bike (The Epsom salt) ,& The T100 drag bike.
And giving me a free hand in the design & construction,
it's a big weight of my shoulders now the bike is running ,as a lot of Time & thought went into this Bike & Motor
we are testing tommorow at keevil air strip with The Avon Tyre Co ,
and i would like to thank all people that have been involved in this project,

My sponsors at the shop for Peter Allans project,

The Avon tyre Co Ltd,

The Amal Carburetter Co,

Phil Morris Racing (Morris Motor Oils)

Channel Comercials PLC,

Edwin Clothing,

Karmer Set Building,


And all the guys that played vital parts in this Venture

Peter Allan (Bike Owner)

Del Russell,

Giorgio Castronovo

Steve Hallam

Ian Dentith (Drag Racer & Sprinter)

Julian Gomez

Gary Margerum,

Laurie Kirkby,

Karl Krick.
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Old 08-05-2013, 12:49 PM   #55
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Did some shakedown runs today at Keevil Airfield, all went well, not too much to do when we get back to be honest.

We did 12 runs, 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th saw 7000 rpm, 5th saw 6000 rpm before I started to shut down.

That's a tad over 120mph, with 7000rpm in 5th we would get 140mph with current gearing. Our target of 7500 would give us a theoretical 150mph.

All at Sea Level of course, the Salt is going to test us to the limit, and we cannot wait.

All in all a good day, engine felt really crisp, when it came on cam it absolutely flew.

Sorry cant post pics just yet, sponsor Avon has first use of them.

Peter
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Old 08-19-2013, 05:05 PM   #56
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Fly out from the UK tomorrow

Looking forward to catching up with any BUB participants on here.

See you Friday

Peter
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Old 08-20-2013, 02:21 AM   #57
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

leaving on friday, of course if i can put my cases back together after messing up a crankshaft journal, a con-rod bearing and a seized camshaft bushing... see you guys!!
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Old 08-20-2013, 04:09 AM   #58
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Looking forward to it ALp, we'd really like to see the bike, congrats on a great speed at Speed Week!

Peter
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Old 08-20-2013, 12:46 PM   #59
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Hi,

Just back today from Speed Week... Did a 121.775mph with great difficulty at revs that would normally equate 135mph...

The salt is wet and very slippery, beware, plenty of constant wheel spin.

They had to move course 1 by 30 feet, did not improve things...

So still no record for me but it was near... The whole week was unbelievable...

Patrick
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Old 08-20-2013, 01:39 PM   #60
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Glad to see you're home safely. The best of luck Alp and Peter. That's a small price to pay for a 131+ run Alp. You had to be the fastest single engine Triumph there.
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El Mirage record 500 APS/PG 129.817 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PG 122.240 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PF 120.157 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PG 119.667 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PF 117.186 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBG 111.494 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBF 112.717 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PF 128.703 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PG 121.553 mph
El Mirage record 650 SC/PG 130.224 mph
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Old 08-20-2013, 07:42 PM   #61
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Hi Patrick

Sorry to hear that, but still a great speed considering the spin.

BUB runs on a different area of salt to Speed Week, I'm hoping another week if sun will dry things out a bit more.

Landed in Vegas a couple of hours ago, cargo van hired and safely ensconced in the Hard Rock Hotel. I'll drop by the shippers tomorrow to check on best time to pick up the bike, don't really want it sitting in the back of the van in the hotel car park for longer than I need to.

Peter

Quote:
Originally Posted by thefrenchowl View Post
Hi,

Just back today from Speed Week... Did a 121.775mph with great difficulty at revs that would normally equate 135mph...

The salt is wet and very slippery, beware, plenty of constant wheel spin.

They had to move course 1 by 30 feet, did not improve things...

So still no record for me but it was near... The whole week was unbelievable...

Patrick
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Old 09-09-2013, 12:55 AM   #62
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Default National Record Broken

After damaging the bottom end at Speedweek, I managed to rebuild the engine within 4 days. The biggest problem was the seized cam bush that had spun inside the case. First I cleaned out the cases and made the correct oversize o.d. cam bush. Usually I do install my own cam bushes and align them with my reamer/pilot set, but this was a different situation with damaged cases and already installed drive side bushes. Luckily Dan at “Franz & Grubb Engine” had some special self centering tools/reamers to align my custom bush into the case. Without him I wouldn’t have been able to finish my engine and get back to Bonneville on time.

I really did not have time to seat the rings or do any test runs; I didn’t even tune the carbs after the rebuild. I went straight to the starting line and when my turn came, I fired up the engine and went 118mph and qualified for a record run. My return run was 122mph and I broke the record that first day. After my first run the bike kept going faster everyday and reached a top speed of 131+ mph all of which took place at around 6500ft-7200ft density altitude.

The previous M-VG (modified vintage gas) national record belonged to a beautiful 1955 BSA at 116.977mph. My final qualifying run was against an 11mph headwind resulting in 123.877mph within the measured mile. Unfortunately my Record (return) run was against a headwind as well of 4mph, the little pre/unit managed to achieve 130.308mph within the measured mile and at the end the new AMA National record averaged to 127.092mph.

The “Manta Ray” is officially the fastest vintage triumph on gas with a stock rigid frame/iron head but it is not the fastest vintage bike yet because the SCTA World record belongs to a very nice Indian with a 127.835mph from August 1998.

We will be back at Bonneville in October for the “World Finals” and continue to chase the World Record!



Tune-up and ignition timing before final record run


Officials verifying bore/stroke


Vidio link to the 130.308mph run
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10202065943476398

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Old 09-09-2013, 01:05 AM   #63
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Terrific running Triumph!! Good to see you at the El Camino college show. Congrats again!!
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El Mirage record 500 APS/PG 129.817 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PG 122.240 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PF 120.157 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PG 119.667 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PF 117.186 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBG 111.494 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBF 112.717 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PF 128.703 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PG 121.553 mph
El Mirage record 650 SC/PG 130.224 mph
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Old 09-09-2013, 03:08 AM   #64
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

That is a fantastic result,well done.
Cheers R
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Old 09-09-2013, 09:13 AM   #65
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Default Re: National Record Broken

Well done Alp,
It was a great thing to be there and see you run and get that Record ,I got to grips with the missings revs from our bike, what a learning curve that was,
so back to do battle with the elements next year with the bike we built for pete and another we are putting together.

Take care
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Old 09-09-2013, 11:58 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astek View Post
After damaging the bottom end at Speedweek, I managed to rebuild the engine within 4 days. The biggest problem was the seized cam bush that had spun inside the case. First I cleaned out the cases and made the correct oversize o.d. cam bush. Usually I do install my own cam bushes and align them with my reamer/pilot set, but this was a different situation with damaged cases and already installed drive side bushes. Luckily Dan at “Franz & Grubb Engine” had some special self centering tools/reamers to align my custom bush into the case. Without him I wouldn’t have been able to finish my engine and get back to Bonneville on time.

I really did not have time to seat the rings or do any test runs; I didn’t even tune the carbs after the rebuild. I went straight to the starting line and when my turn came, I fired up the engine and went 118mph and qualified for a record run. My return run was 122mph and I broke the record that first day. After my first run the bike kept going faster everyday and reached a top speed of 131+ mph all of which took place at around 6500ft-7200ft density altitude.

The previous M-VG (modified vintage gas) national record belonged to a beautiful 1955 BSA at 116.977mph. My final qualifying run was against an 11mph headwind resulting in 123.877mph within the measured mile. Unfortunately my Record (return) run was against a headwind as well of 4mph, the little pre/unit managed to achieve 130.308mph within the measured mile and at the end the new AMA National record averaged to 127.092mph.

The “Manta Ray” is officially the fastest vintage triumph on gas with a stock rigid frame/iron head but it is not the fastest vintage bike yet because the SCTA World record belongs to a very nice Indian with a 127.835mph from August 1998.

We will be back at Bonneville in October for the “World Finals” and continue to chase the World Record!



Tune-up and ignition timing before final record run


Officials verifying bore/stroke


Vidio link to the 130.308mph run
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10202065943476398

Congrats Alp! May the tailwinds be blowing your way, next go around! All you guys have hero status in my book! Keep after it!!
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Old 09-09-2013, 12:28 PM   #67
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

congrats on a successful Speedweek outing,
your detail engineering pays off.
Good job.
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Old 09-10-2013, 12:45 AM   #68
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Thank you guys, you know how much time goes into prepping and racing these old bikes, appreciate your support!

Hey Baron, Congrats on your first year efforts and you guys got a record as well, we'll see you next year!

Here is a pictures from last weekends elco show.
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Old 09-10-2013, 06:53 PM   #69
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Very impressive Triumph!!!
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Old 10-21-2013, 01:26 AM   #70
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Quote:
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Very impressive Triumph!!!
Thanks, I am going to start a new LSR bike, but for another class this time. I will post pics on my site, here and fb.
.
.

Triumph Corp. invited the MAnta Ray to the Barber Vintage Festival and to their Dealer conference held at the Motorsports Museum in Birmingham, Alabama.



Triumph Castrol Rocket and the Gyronaut X-1 next to my little pre unit racer.


Tyler's "Lowbrow Customs" Double Vision was there as well.


From the inside of the Barber Motorsports Museum.
Left side Castrol Rocket, Right side Gyronaut x-1, The Manta Ray can be seen in the middle.
All those 40 DiSalvo Daytona Replicas were sold in less than an hour!
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Old 10-21-2013, 09:38 PM   #71
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Default Re: National Record Broken

Quote:
Originally Posted by astek View Post
After damaging the bottom end at Speedweek, I managed to rebuild the engine within 4 days. The biggest problem was the seized cam bush that had spun inside the case. First I cleaned out the cases and made the correct oversize o.d. cam bush. Usually I do install my own cam bushes and align them with my reamer/pilot set, but this was a different situation with damaged cases and already installed drive side bushes. Luckily Dan at “Franz & Grubb Engine” had some special self centering tools/reamers to align my custom bush into the case. Without him I wouldn’t have been able to finish my engine and get back to Bonneville on time.

I really did not have time to seat the rings or do any test runs; I didn’t even tune the carbs after the rebuild. I went straight to the starting line and when my turn came, I fired up the engine and went 118mph and qualified for a record run. My return run was 122mph and I broke the record that first day. After my first run the bike kept going faster everyday and reached a top speed of 131+ mph all of which took place at around 6500ft-7200ft density altitude.

The previous M-VG (modified vintage gas) national record belonged to a beautiful 1955 BSA at 116.977mph. My final qualifying run was against an 11mph headwind resulting in 123.877mph within the measured mile. Unfortunately my Record (return) run was against a headwind as well of 4mph, the little pre/unit managed to achieve 130.308mph within the measured mile and at the end the new AMA National record averaged to 127.092mph.

The “Manta Ray” is officially the fastest vintage triumph on gas with a stock rigid frame/iron head but it is not the fastest vintage bike yet because the SCTA World record belongs to a very nice Indian with a 127.835mph from August 1998.

We will be back at Bonneville in October for the “World Finals” and continue to chase the World Record!



Tune-up and ignition timing before final record run


Officials verifying bore/stroke


Vidio link to the 130.308mph run
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10202065943476398

Good lord that thing sounds sweet at speed. Nice job
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Old 11-13-2013, 01:53 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by cajun View Post
Good lord that thing sounds sweet at speed. Nice job
thanks cajun,


We were at the last race of the season, the conditions were not good this time at the El Mirage lake bed, only one run in two days, but the little pre/unit went even faster. Top speed was achieved within a half mile, surface was horrible, lots of wheel spin but still went 132mph.






We are the fastest 650cc Vintage class Triumph but now I am building a Push-rod class special construction bike for next year and I already started the 3d's for the A-PF/G class. It is a tough class, we will be running against a 4V Honda record.
This time we are getting support, I will make an announcement on my fb page. Big surprise coming soon

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Old 11-13-2013, 06:35 PM   #73
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Astek,you've been tearing up the joint with that bike.....

Meanwhile we bumped up our record in ECTA 650 modified production to 120 into a head wind.This has got the attention of a few other guys so our easy ride is gonna be over....
I'm disassembling the engine for inspection. The stock Bonneville head is out for porting work. I fabricated anew exhaust and gonna try flat slide carbs. The pistons show signs of slight valve contact, nothing got bent or dented.....My rider was missing gears, he admitted to crossing the finish line in third at a clocked 116 mph...8300 rpm with the gearing it has. He said the tach went higher on a few missed gears. I told him to stop the drag strip shit and I repositioned the gear lever, no more missed gears. I would fire him,but he pays for the bike build
We are serious about next year,see what happens...


And again ,congrats for making that old engine fly!!!! Maybe we'll met up someday.
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Old 11-13-2013, 08:43 PM   #74
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Thanks Truckedup,

Congrats on raising the East coast records, your bike is one of my favorite LSRacers, I was very impressed when i saw your dyno video!! Maybe someday we come over and race on asphalt together, but we would like to see your racing machines on the salt!

Seems like you've already sorted out many things, and without all those little issues it is obvious that you guys will be performing better. I wouldn't change the Concentric carbs. As you see I am using the same ones and I think they can make me go even faster! The new Amals are just great carburetors for street and race use. There are other things I would change on the bike but I can’t really tell you everything here
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Old 11-14-2013, 06:10 AM   #75
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Thanks, the ECTA has many very fast records but for some reason the 650 modified production record was only 116 MPH when we started racing.And we race on concrete
The Loring Maine LSR concrete track has bikes at 300 mph,that's hauling ass in a mile and a half standing start.
So you like Concentric carbs? I do also but so many other racers are telling me to get Mikuni flat slides. I hate to change because the Amal's are easy for me to tune...
The speed of your machine is quite impressive and I bet you stand a good chance of beating the four valve Hondas..
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Old 11-14-2013, 11:10 PM   #76
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Thanks, the ECTA has many very fast records but for some reason the 650 modified production record was only 116 MPH when we started racing.And we race on concrete
The Loring Maine LSR concrete track has bikes at 300 mph,that's hauling ass in a mile and a half standing start.
So you like Concentric carbs? I do also but so many other racers are telling me to get Mikuni flat slides. I hate to change because the Amal's are easy for me to tune...
The speed of your machine is quite impressive and I bet you stand a good chance of beating the four valve Hondas..
Concrete!! even better,

Yes, Concentrics are great, and you see why I like them. One triumph went 200mph with concentric II’s (round slide and no smoothbore). I do not think we need flatslides at wot, my idea is that a smooth bore or a larger bore is advantageous enough. Another option would be the concentric II smoothbore which is a great race carb.

I am going to run nitro in my new bike so I am thinking of getting a pair of GP’s but I will keep the concentrics on my MVG bike.

After fixing the issues I would run the bike with concentrics and see what happens, I am sure you will make it perform better.
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Old 11-15-2013, 12:07 AM   #77
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

I don't believe you need flatslides. I'm running a 45mm round slide Mikuni on my 540cc Weslake and have had good luck with it. 130.244 at El Mirage and 134 at Bonneville means I won't be changing anytime soon.

Congrats Alp for making the top 25 at El Mirage.
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El Mirage record 500 APS/PG 129.817 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PG 122.240 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PF 120.157 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PG 119.667 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PF 117.186 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBG 111.494 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBF 112.717 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PF 128.703 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PG 121.553 mph
El Mirage record 650 SC/PG 130.224 mph
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Old 11-15-2013, 07:41 AM   #78
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I don't believe you need flatslides. I'm running a 45mm round slide Mikuni on my 540cc Weslake and have had good luck with it. 130.244 at El Mirage and 134 at Bonneville means I won't be changing anytime soon.

Congrats Alp for making the top 25 at El Mirage.
On other Brit bike sites guys have been telling me That Mikuni TM 34 mm flat slides are what I should use.Some of these guys are successful road racers.
One mile LSR on pavement is a lot different that that soft surfaces.They don't allow wheel spinning starts but you launch fairly hard and get right on throttle,no traction issues.The flat slide guys claim better throttle response through the gears as the rpm rises and falls between the gears.
But,I don't think our engine is up to full potential for the 32 mm Concentrics on it now....
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Old 11-16-2013, 01:47 AM   #79
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

For me LSR is flat out and all that really matters is the main jet. True, on the salt you can wind it up and feed the clutch home and spin the tire. On asphalt you have to slip the clutch. Road racers need a carb that will work on part throttle etc. for running through and getting out of corners. I'm a believer in a big hole to let the air and fuel in.
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El Mirage record 500 APS/PG 129.817 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PG 122.240 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PF 120.157 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PG 119.667 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PF 117.186 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBG 111.494 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBF 112.717 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PF 128.703 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PG 121.553 mph
El Mirage record 650 SC/PG 130.224 mph
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Old 12-19-2013, 09:01 PM   #80
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Lots of progress on the new race bike, I received my Carbs and the primary drive from Newby Racing, Bob made a special race clutch with more plates and with different ratio pulleys.

I also started the new frame, here i'm cutting the 6061 plates. i don't have a mill but i used my drill press to smooth out the corners.



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Old 12-19-2013, 10:44 PM   #81
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

^^^I like that!
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Old 12-19-2013, 11:30 PM   #82
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^^^I like that!
thanks little d,
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Old 12-20-2013, 01:29 PM   #83
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Looks good Alp. Love your mill!!! I have a milling machine that looks exactly like a Harbor Freight angle grinder. You're going after Jim's records. I had a look and was surprised. Usually I think of Jim as building hideously fast rocketships. If what you're doing to vintage engines is applied to a later engine it makes Jim's records seem a bit fragile. I'm looking forward to seeing the progress of your build. Keep posting and good luck!
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El Mirage record 500 APS/PG 129.817 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PG 122.240 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PF 120.157 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PG 119.667 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PF 117.186 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBG 111.494 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBF 112.717 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PF 128.703 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PG 121.553 mph
El Mirage record 650 SC/PG 130.224 mph
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Old 12-21-2013, 02:21 AM   #84
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Looks good Alp. Love your mill!!! I have a milling machine that looks exactly like a Harbor Freight angle grinder. You're going after Jim's records. I had a look and was surprised. Usually I think of Jim as building hideously fast rocketships. If what you're doing to vintage engines is applied to a later engine it makes Jim's records seem a bit fragile. I'm looking forward to seeing the progress of your build. Keep posting and good luck!
Hey Bill I have a couple of those HF mills too, they do the job, right?

Actually the new engine is going to be a pre/unit as well, the only difference will be the later 9 bold alloy head which has not the same combustion chamber. Maybe a slight compression ratio increase which is not going to matter in the fuel class.

I believe that the challenge of trying to get the tough records makes it more fun and the Honda four valve is the fastest pushrod bike right now. So why not? Lets see what happens.
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Old 12-21-2013, 05:47 AM   #85
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I believe that the challenge of trying to get the tough records makes it more fun and the Honda four valve is the fastest pushrod bike right now. So why not? Lets see what happens.
Tough records...The Bonneville 650 MP push rod gas record of 123 mph looks pretty tough.....
We got interested in the 1000 cc MP push rod gas record held by a Moto Guzzi. Even bought a Guzzi... But beating the 157 MPH naked bike record was gonna be fucking expensive with the multi thousand dollar cost of making the trip from the East....My rider/money man also races on road courses...The road racing trumped for now....I ride the Guzzi on the street.....
I just finished the reworked 650 Triumph engine and it's in the chassis. Hopefully more power and different gearing will give more speed to raise our record.
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Old 12-22-2013, 01:36 AM   #86
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Tough records...The Bonneville 650 MP push rod gas record of 123 mph looks pretty tough.....
We got interested in the 1000 cc MP push rod gas record held by a Moto Guzzi. Even bought a Guzzi... But beating the 157 MPH naked bike record was gonna be fucking expensive with the multi thousand dollar cost of making the trip from the East....My rider/money man also races on road courses...The road racing trumped for now....I ride the Guzzi on the street.....
I just finished the reworked 650 Triumph engine and it's in the chassis. Hopefully more power and different gearing will give more speed to raise our record.
I don't know anything about the Guzzi's performance but i'm quite sure that your Triumph has the bhp to get the M-PG 123.9 mph record and even more!
Do you have a current picture of your race bike? Are you keeping the Concentrics?
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Old 12-22-2013, 10:57 AM   #87
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The bike looks like this with the two into one exhaust I fabricated.

I believe if this bike will run 123-125 mph in the standing one mile,and still be pulling at the end ,we have a chance at the Bonneville record. Keeping the Concentrics for now

I'm watching what you're doing also...

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Old 12-24-2013, 03:56 PM   #88
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Merry Christmas and Happy New year, Wish all of you a fun and successful 2014!!
.
.

And here is the BIG NEWS!!! After having a great 2013 race season we got sponsorship's from some of the best in the industry.

We would like to welcome our new Sponsor to our team,
The Legendary “AMAL Carburetter Company”
Amal supplied us with their Iconic GP Race Carbs, Matchbox Floats and the dual cable Racing Twist Grip for our new A-PF class.



We are very thankful to the folks at Burlen Fuel Systems England for choosing us to sponsor in North America.

We could run TT's or GP's on our M class gas bike but we will continue to run the great Amal Concentrics to surpass our top speed of 132mph on gas.


Dual GP Racing Carbs set up to run on Nitro-Methane!! Stunning work of art, these carburetors are truly amazing..
.



Two Matchbox external floats will feed the GP's.

The original Amal Alloy Body Dual Twist Grip.



More to come...
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Old 12-25-2013, 05:34 AM   #89
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

They look beautiful.

D.
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Old 01-02-2014, 03:19 AM   #90
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They look beautiful.

D.
Thank you Dan,

Now test fitting the engine/gearbox plates and lining up the primary drive.

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Old 01-02-2014, 11:26 AM   #91
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

damm I like that belt setup..someday I"m gonna drop the $ on one
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Old 01-02-2014, 10:49 PM   #92
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damm I like that belt setup..someday I"m gonna drop the $ on one
My other (M-VG) bike still runs on a chain drive, will see how the new one will turn out.
.
Today i received this from the SCTA. It's actually the run where I seized the cam bush.
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Old 01-02-2014, 11:15 PM   #93
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Once again Alp a big congratulations on a great run. Next year you'll back it up. And hopefully the new bike will do the deed as well.
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El Mirage record 500 APS/PG 129.817 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PG 122.240 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PF 120.157 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PG 119.667 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PF 117.186 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBG 111.494 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBF 112.717 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PF 128.703 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PG 121.553 mph
El Mirage record 650 SC/PG 130.224 mph
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Old 01-04-2014, 12:30 AM   #94
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Thanks Bill, The new bike will be full of fun challenges.
.
Figuring out the intake runners and positioning of the GP Carbs in order to start fabricating the frame.
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Old 02-03-2014, 03:57 PM   #95
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Mock-up with the new GP's

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Old 02-04-2014, 01:32 AM   #96
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

its looking extremely well Alp. Itching to see it on the salt.
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El Mirage record 500 APS/PG 129.817 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PG 122.240 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PF 120.157 mph
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Bonneville record 500 SC/PF 117.186 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBG 111.494 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBF 112.717 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PF 128.703 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PG 121.553 mph
El Mirage record 650 SC/PG 130.224 mph
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Old 02-04-2014, 02:03 AM   #97
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Lovely work (as we have come to expect) on those engine/trans plates.
Cheers R
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Old 02-04-2014, 02:05 AM   #98
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

wow!
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Old 03-07-2014, 03:00 PM   #99
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

I almost finished the LSR frame, here is the First Mock-up!
There is still work to do (gussets/tabs/brackets) but you get the idea!



Big Thanks to my sponsors AMAL Carburetors and Morris Magneto.
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Old 03-07-2014, 03:14 PM   #100
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nice, Alp's the man!

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Old 03-07-2014, 03:28 PM   #101
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Dude! That frame is amazing
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Old 03-07-2014, 06:59 PM   #102
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

A record setter sitting still! El Mirage in May Alp?
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El Mirage record 500 SC/PF 120.157 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PG 119.667 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PF 117.186 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBG 111.494 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBF 112.717 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PF 128.703 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PG 121.553 mph
El Mirage record 650 SC/PG 130.224 mph
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Old 03-08-2014, 12:23 PM   #103
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A record setter sitting still! El Mirage in May Alp?
I will install the 650 M-VG engine in to this new frame to test it in May at El Mirage. But the ultimate goal is to finish the 650 Pushrod Fuel engine for Bonneville Speedweek!
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Old 03-08-2014, 04:18 PM   #104
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Astek, you do nice work that's for sure and I don't believe there's a faster running Triumph 650 than yours on any LSR track. We're the fastest east of the Rockies ......... It's interesting to see the difference between vintage MP and my Triumph 650 in non vintage MP. You can get you seat height lower than the top of the rear tire...
El Mirage doesn't have MP class, just altered class????
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Old 03-08-2014, 05:28 PM   #105
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

T U, No Modified class at El Mirage. Just A.
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El Mirage record 500 APS/PG 129.817 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PG 122.240 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PF 120.157 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PG 119.667 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PF 117.186 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBG 111.494 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBF 112.717 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PF 128.703 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PG 121.553 mph
El Mirage record 650 SC/PG 130.224 mph
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Old 03-08-2014, 09:40 PM   #106
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Astek, you do nice work that's for sure and I don't believe there's a faster running Triumph 650 than yours on any LSR track. We're the fastest east of the Rockies ......... It's interesting to see the difference between vintage MP and my Triumph 650 in non vintage MP. You can get you seat height lower than the top of the rear tire...
El Mirage doesn't have MP class, just altered class????
Thanks Truckedup, Yes El Mirage does not have M class so i can run my new "A" frame (special construction) without changing classes.
But SCTA/AMA M-VG and M-PG is the same, your seat height can not be lower than the rear tire.

Here is my M-VG 131 top speed at Bonneville with the stock frame and the seat above tire.
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Old 03-09-2014, 06:38 AM   #107
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

What is the function of the drilled plate behind your left foot?

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Old 03-09-2014, 06:45 AM   #108
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Do you use the long megaphones because of results from track or dyno testing? It appears that some LSR racers use long individual pipes, some use shorter and some a two into one. Otherwords, no golden rule for pipes.
I fabricated a two into one with 27 inch primaries and a 16 inch collector. This is similar to used on the best running AHRMA Triumphs...See how it goes on the dyno..but...
We been having ignition issues and missed dyno tuning....I bought a new $450 Pazon Smart Fire and the fucker was bad out of the box. I've used other Pazon ignitions with no problems. Emailed Pazon and that day they closed for a month....Vacation of some sort. They don't open until March 16 So I'm just hanging here waiting.... Oh well.
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Old 03-09-2014, 03:58 PM   #109
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What is the function of the drilled plate behind your left foot?
I made the alloy plate so i can change the location of the foot controls according to class.
M class requires that the foot rests must be ahead of the rear axle at least by 6”

Truckedup,
Magneto my friend "MORRIS MAGNETO". You put it on and you do not worry about it anymore. Simple, efficient very strong and made by a great guy here in the USA.
I am not done with all the options in terms of exhaust design. So far this works fine but there could be better alternatives. I have no idea what my engine would do on the dyno with its current set-up. I'm looking forward to seeing how your 2 to 1 will perform.
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Old 03-10-2014, 01:03 AM   #110
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Damn, Alp you just constantly improve from awesome to amazing to unreal! That is some beautiful Fabrication. Looks like a record setter to me. The carbs look great. Lots of love and time put into them. Best of luck to you.
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Old 03-10-2014, 01:24 AM   #111
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

The long slim megaphones generally work better at higher RPM's. Depends on the cam, but our Honda gained almost 1000 RPM's at Bonneville with this CR 110 style megaphone over a short Bates megaphone.


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Old 03-10-2014, 04:40 AM   #112
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Damn, Alp you just constantly improve from awesome to amazing to unreal! That is some beautiful Fabrication. Looks like a record setter to me. The carbs look great. Lots of love and time put into them. Best of luck to you.
Yeah lots of time, that's for sure! Thanks for the kind words.

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The long slim megaphones generally work better at higher RPM's. Depends on the cam, but our Honda gained almost 1000 RPM's at Bonneville with this CR 110 style megaphone over a short Bates megaphone.


Wow, another 1000RPM just with a different megaphone! My engine would blow up with another 1000rpm. But I think you are right about the longer megaphone working better at high rpm.
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Old 03-10-2014, 05:58 AM   #113
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Long exhaust is not a given for top end performance. Tim Joyce's bike was a consistent winner in the AHRMA 750 class. It's a heavily modified Triumph engine making around 80 hp at 8000 rpm. Yes it's a road racer but top end power is still important.




Or this machine, it's the current 1000 cc pushrod record holder at 157 MPH. This Moto Guzzi is like many Harley's with a shorter exhaust...Different crank phasing, but not all that different. Modified Guzzi's turn over 8000 rpm.




A Triumph with a 360 degree crank is more like two single engines that the 450-270 degree Moto Guzzi....But I'm going to try out the shorter two into one just to see what happens..
Exhaust is just one three major tuning variables, the other two being intake length and camshaft.
But it's hard to argue with Astek's exhaust considering 130 MPG speed run...
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Old 03-11-2014, 03:24 AM   #114
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Long exhaust is not a given for top end performance. Tim Joyce's bike was a consistent winner in the AHRMA 750 class. It's a heavily modified Triumph engine making around 80 hp at 8000 rpm. Yes it's a road racer but top end power is still important.

Or this machine, it's the current 1000 cc pushrod record holder at 157 MPH. This Moto Guzzi is like many Harley's with a shorter exhaust...Different crank phasing, but not all that different. Modified Guzzi's turn over 8000 rpm.

A Triumph with a 360 degree crank is more like two single engines that the 450-270 degree Moto Guzzi....But I'm going to try out the shorter two into one just to see what happens..
Exhaust is just one three major tuning variables, the other two being intake length and camshaft.
But it's hard to argue with Astek's exhaust considering 130 MPG speed run...
Very nice race bikes! Thanks for posting the pictures.
The 750cc with 80hp at 8000rpm is impressive, seems like the 2->1 works well. You probably will end up with 55-60hp or more on your 650cc with that type of exhaust, and that will do the job! Let us know.
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Old 03-11-2014, 06:00 AM   #115
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Very nice race bikes! Thanks for posting the pictures.
The 750cc with 80hp at 8000rpm is impressive, seems like the 2->1 works well. You probably will end up with 55-60hp or more on your 650cc with that type of exhaust, and that will do the job! Let us know.
Last year when first built our bike made 51 rear wheel HP at 7000 rpm on a Mustang dyno. Mustang dynos are supposed to be more realistic than the Dynojet...The dyno operator was having trouble with the machine so I think the HP may be less than he claimed.
You have dyno numbers?
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Old 03-11-2014, 05:10 PM   #116
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Iv'e just returned from the DLRA Speedweek event (Australia), I didn't get the "toy" bike sorted, but had a GREAT time crewing for a mate, Filthy, on his 'ol Shovel (Phil has only one leg)

This leg freaked the scrutineers out
Spent most of the week chasing Nos gremlins, ended up wiring the one shot system to the hi/low lite switch as the 3 stage system refused to work.
He was having a good run, just crossed the 1st timer on the 3 mile marker, when a coil wire broke, he still managed 135 mph, on ONE cylinder !
His best run was looking like upping his 152 mph record, pulling 6,500 rpm in top, Nos had been "stabbed" several times, just to be told the timers went down,,no time recorded.
http://youtu.be/dkSsW2gtdj0



Oh yeah, shredded a 3" belt too on an earlier run.
Tiny

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Old 03-11-2014, 07:52 PM   #117
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Last year when first built our bike made 51 rear wheel HP at 7000 rpm on a Mustang dyno. Mustang dynos are supposed to be more realistic than the Dynojet...The dyno operator was having trouble with the machine so I think the HP may be less than he claimed.
You have dyno numbers?
I haven't dynoed this engine, but they say it is probably close to 60hp to go above 130mph.


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Iv'e just returned from the DLRA Speedweek event (Australia), I didn't get the "toy" bike sorted, but had a GREAT time crewing for a mate, Filthy, on his 'ol Shovel (Phil has only one leg)

This leg freaked the scrutineers out
Spent most of the week chasing Nos gremlins, ended up wiring the one shot system to the hi/low lite switch as the 3 stage system refused to work.
He was having a good run, just crossed the 1st timer on the 3 mile marker, when a coil wire broke, he still managed 135 mph, on ONE cylinder !
His best run was looking like upping his 152 mph record, pulling 6,500 rpm in top, Nos had been "stabbed" several times, just to be told the timers went down,,no time recorded.
http://youtu.be/dkSsW2gtdj0

Oh yeah, shredded a 3" belt too on an earlier run.
Tiny
Lake Gairdner looks beautiful in the video. Congrats to your mate too.. Any 650 vintage/pushrod bikes?
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Old 03-11-2014, 08:21 PM   #118
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"Any 650 vintage/pushrod bikes? "
Yes, prelim results here
http://www.dlra.org.au/2014.htm
This clip is of the drive to the pits, the salt was different than Iv'e ever seen it, no hexagonal pressure ridges, just the occasional "moon rock", apparently . draw up by the the moon's gravitational pull ?
There was a 2" coating of salt with a sandy texture, under this were salt crystals that were transparent, and looked like coarse rock salt, the Harley dug down to this and got traction,
http://youtu.be/9xgN5JAXGMo
Tiny

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Old 03-12-2014, 02:12 AM   #119
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Wow, another 1000RPM just with a different megaphone! My engine would blow up with another 1000rpm. But I think you are right about the longer megaphone working better at high rpm.[/QUOTE]

The little 100cc Honda with it's overhead cam, lightened rockers, and stout valve springs doesn't complain near 10,000 rpms. Setting two records it ran a total of 30 miles full throttle.
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Old 03-12-2014, 03:47 AM   #120
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The little 100cc Honda with it's overhead cam, lightened rockers, and stout valve springs doesn't complain near 10,000 rpms. Setting two records it ran a total of 30 miles full throttle.
I know your bike, it's not just a race bike, it is a work of art.
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Old 03-12-2014, 04:01 AM   #121
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Dean, you might appreciate this little LSR bike, once a Honda CT110, managed 111 mph this year @ Speedweek Oz
http://youtu.be/YNZDbvffFEQ (2013, lost the side of the piston)

http://youtu.be/5Lxo8_etNac (2014 GPS "test track prep)

http://youtu.be/f9F6ozxO3rY (2014 GPS "test track @ 15 lb boost)

Top speed was with 30 lb boost (turbo AND supercharged) on fuel

Tiny
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Old 03-13-2014, 03:00 AM   #122
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

That is certainly impressive. The most impressive part is the crankshaft stayed in it with 30lbs. boost!!
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Old 03-13-2014, 10:30 AM   #123
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

I love this thread. and great to see what's going on down under. But I have to ask, what is that motorized get up on the guys Peg leg all about! Looks like he could spin circles with it!
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Old 03-13-2014, 03:35 PM   #124
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I love this thread. and great to see what's going on down under. But I have to ask, what is that motorized get up on the guys Peg leg all about! Looks like he could spin circles with it!
It was a joke (@ the scrutineers expense)
Tiny
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Old 03-13-2014, 03:59 PM   #125
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It was a joke (@ the scrutineers expense)
Tiny

That's too bad. I would have been a hoot to see him make a pass on it.
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Bonneville record 500 SC/PBG 111.494 mph
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Old 03-14-2014, 12:41 AM   #126
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

I'm with Hoof. Was hoping it was for real! I'm easily fooled though.
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Old 03-14-2014, 01:05 PM   #127
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

For an "A" class bike it looks pretty small.
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Old 03-14-2014, 06:05 PM   #128
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Alp, I think you just redefined the term "low rider"!
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Bonneville record 500 SC/PBG 111.494 mph
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Bonneville record 650 SC/PG 121.553 mph
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Old 03-14-2014, 06:13 PM   #129
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Rules require both hands on the bars
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Old 03-14-2014, 09:42 PM   #130
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

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Rules require both hands on the bars
Very true (unfortunately).
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Bonneville record 500 SC/PBG 111.494 mph
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Bonneville record 650 SC/PF 128.703 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PG 121.553 mph
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Old 03-15-2014, 06:44 AM   #131
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Question...sidecar rigs are very low ....Is being low important to wind resistance as much as rider position to minimize his body profile on a open frame bike? Is there less "air" closer to the ground? I know with cars low is important to lessen turbulent air flow drag under the chassis
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Old 03-15-2014, 01:27 PM   #132
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

TU. What I know about aerodynamics could be written on the head of a pin. But obviously the less you present to the wind the faster you will go. You, Alp, me all run small capacity engines. Despite our best efforts they can only make so much power. And we create a certain amount of drag. At some point in a run drag will become greater than the power can overcome and that's your max speed. As the engine can't make any more power reducing drag will allow more speed. So anything you can take out of the wind will allow you to go faster.

I built my sidecar as low as I could to keep air out of the underside. Also it was an idea rattling around my head for a long time. I run in the 650 class but the engine is only a 540cc single so I try to reduce drag as much as I can.
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Bonneville record 650 SC/PG 121.553 mph
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Old 05-19-2014, 03:28 AM   #133
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

After the National Modified vintage class record we now hold the SCTA record for the world fastest vintage 650cc Special Construction class "A-VG".
The new bike/frame that I have built within the last few months ran 139.226mph on gas at the El Mirage dry lake.
This is the class record that belonged to a great Indian LSR for a long time!



Thanks to Travis for this great image!
and thanks to Franz & Grubb Engine for pit support.
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Old 05-19-2014, 03:54 AM   #134
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Fantastic result. Much respect.
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Old 05-19-2014, 05:44 AM   #135
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Good job!
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Old 05-19-2014, 05:30 PM   #136
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Thank you guys!!!

Hey Truckedup, how is your lsr coming along?.. Soon I will start building our new M-PG Engine.
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Old 05-19-2014, 11:01 PM   #137
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Thank you guys!!!

Hey Truckedup, how is your lsr coming along?.. Soon I will start building our new M-PG Engine.

Any videos of that 139 MPH run I would like to hear that thing at speed. The last one you put up was music.
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Old 05-19-2014, 11:41 PM   #138
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For an "A" class bike it looks pretty small.
I think this is my favorite pix in this whole thread, although I love the thread.

For us guys over here in Hawaii, making it to "Da Salt" is sorta a hopeless dream, we don't know anybody over there, where do we stay, alla that, but I can't tell ya how many times I've dreamed of being at "Da Salt" during Speed Week....
Aloha from Maui,
Willy
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Old 05-20-2014, 07:45 AM   #139
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Thank you guys!!!

Hey Truckedup, how is your lsr coming along?.. Soon I will start building our new M-PG Engine.
Well,bike goes on the dyno today at 11 am. On the dyno two weeks ago the engine made 53 rear wheel HP at 7150 rpm. I made exhaust changes for today's pulls to look for a bit more power. Last year it was 49 rear wheel HP but on a different dyno.That was good for 120 mph into a mild headwind in the mile standing start.
Are you familiar with this bike? Supposedly went 159 MPH around 1960 with an iron head 650...

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Old 05-20-2014, 01:34 PM   #140
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Well,bike goes on the dyno today at 11 am. On the dyno two weeks ago the engine made 53 rear wheel HP at 7150 rpm. I made exhaust changes for today's pulls to look for a bit more power. Last year it was 49 rear wheel HP but on a different dyno.That was good for 120 mph into a mild headwind in the mile standing start.
Are you familiar with this bike? Supposedly went 159 MPH around 1960 with an iron head 650...

Yes, that's my friend Gary Richards Fuel bike. He is in Sam Wheeler's teem. We are in the same SCTA club "Milers".

His record in the early 60's was with a alloy head in the fuel class running on high % nitro.

Gary Richards and his dad Rich Richards are the Masters of Nitro-Methane. They are our heroes here in SoCal.


And good luck on the dyno today, let us know!
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Old 05-20-2014, 02:21 PM   #141
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Made a fuck load of dyno pulls today with and without velocity stacks,air cleaners,exhaust and jetting. Best power was 55.5 hp at the rear wheels on a Super Flow dyno. Maximum torque was 46 ft pounds with 42 ft lbs from 4800-6800 rpm. The air density was 1700 ft during the test.
This engine build does not like long intakes or velocity stacks or long exhausts. Best power was #220 main jets in the 34 MM Mikuni flat slides.
This chart shows some of the runs. The aborted runs happened from a failed battery...Had a spare battery this time. The engine will pull to 7800 rpm but power falls off after 7300.
We set the ECTA class record with about 49 HP at the wheel. So we will see if 6 more HP and higher gearing means more speed.
Alp,it's always a pleasure to see your success!!!

Me on the dyno

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-y94Yje2lzc




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Old 05-20-2014, 03:37 PM   #142
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That thing screams!! Impressive, big improvement in hp.
Are you using the stock oil pump?
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Old 05-20-2014, 04:12 PM   #143
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That thing screams!! Impressive, big improvement in hp.
Are you using the stock oil pump?
Yes stock oil pump about 80 psi with Redline 20/50. The engine oil never really get warmed up ..
We have to do a shoot out when your MPG650 bike is ready...The only track sort of halfway in between is the Texas mile.
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Old 05-20-2014, 04:46 PM   #144
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Any videos of that 139 MPH run I would like to hear that thing at speed. The last one you put up was music.
I have found a video, I shared it on my fb page here https://www.facebook.com/pages/Alp-R...5093045?ref=hl

Hey Tony that would be fun, maybe I bring mine to the ECTA event, running on smooth surface would be a dream come true for us.
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Old 05-20-2014, 05:22 PM   #145
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running on smooth surface would be a dream come true for us.
Coming home with a clean bike is an even better dream.
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Bonneville record 500 SC/PBG 111.494 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBF 112.717 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PF 128.703 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PG 121.553 mph
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Old 05-20-2014, 05:46 PM   #146
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And you can start and ride the bike in pits and up to the starting line...With no riding gear on ...ECTA is very laid back, guys run on their word ,no protesting . And there are brutal fast bikes and cars there...
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Old 06-11-2014, 04:30 PM   #147
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Here is my new LSR frame. Purposefully designed and fabricated for high speed. While the stock frame makes you feel like you're going 140mph at 110 on this frame it feels like 110 at 140mph. Best part is that it does not shake/vibrate at all, it accommodates a wide range of balance factors.

Don't attempt to recreate design it is a very tricky geometry, bad things may happen!



You can see the new race bike at the L.A. Roadster Show this weekend. It is being held at the Pomona Fairplex in Pomona, California on Saturday, June 14th & Sunday, June 15th.
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Old 06-11-2014, 08:25 PM   #148
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

That frame looks like a beautiful, tall blond all stretched out, all the curves in the right place...
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Old 06-12-2014, 05:04 PM   #149
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Wow that frame looks wild,great bit of fab work.
Cheers R
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Old 06-12-2014, 06:51 PM   #150
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Thanks a lot,

Putting the bike back together for the show this weekend.
I made the exhaust set-up out of 18ga pipes, all free hand bends in one piece, welded on a megaphone.
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Old 06-12-2014, 08:14 PM   #151
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

that frame looks like its doing 140mph sitting still on the table
really nice
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Old 06-12-2014, 08:52 PM   #152
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Gorgeous frame for certain.
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Old 06-13-2014, 06:47 AM   #153
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Alp, I like the look of the long megaphones on your machine so I fabricated a set for my bike...I'll see if they add any power....

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Old 06-13-2014, 08:03 AM   #154
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

You guys that are land speed racing really inspire me to build something. I'm impressed with all of the ingenuity and the remarkable craftsmanship. I swear I'm going to build something before I'm 50. At 45 now so the clock is ticking and I have to find another plumbing gig. Work is slow. Anyway, thanks for sharing all the pics and ideas you throw out there.
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Old 06-13-2014, 11:38 AM   #155
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

You don't need to build something from scratch. Start with a bike, stock or otherwise and go from there. I have only basic handtools. "angle grinder engineering". That's the beauty of LSR. You don't need a huge bank account (but it won't do any harm if you ave one).
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El Mirage record 500 APS/PG 129.817 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PG 122.240 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PF 120.157 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PG 119.667 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PF 117.186 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBG 111.494 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBF 112.717 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PF 128.703 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PG 121.553 mph
El Mirage record 650 SC/PG 130.224 mph
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Old 06-14-2014, 06:14 AM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoofhearted View Post
You don't need to build something from scratch. Start with a bike, stock or otherwise and go from there. I have only basic handtools. "angle grinder engineering". That's the beauty of LSR. You don't need a huge bank account (but it won't do any harm if you ave one).
Yes,I do all the work on the modified production Triumph shown above.We have no sponsors. It was made with hand held tools , MIG welder,modified stock parts and parts made from steel scrap. Of course money has to be spend on tires and the engine.The engine was not cheap when the build includes aftermarket performance parts and dyno time.And the track fees and travel expenses.....But all added up the money wouldn't buy a decent used Harley big twin.
And it's fun...
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Old 06-14-2014, 06:37 AM   #157
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

You guys I really dig. Trucked up Congrats mate, that back yard boogie is awesome.Keep on Truckin Muddatrucka!!
From Browny and Mr Pete.
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Old 06-14-2014, 06:17 PM   #158
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You guys I really dig. Trucked up Congrats mate, that back yard boogie is awesome.Keep on Truckin Muddatrucka!!
From Browny and Mr Pete.
Pete gave me a lot of tuning info on Brit Bike when I was building it.
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Old 06-22-2014, 12:25 PM   #159
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

OH ME OH MY!!!!!

This is some good stuff!! Can you give any more details on the FRame? Like stretch, rake and trail? I am considering taking my lil frame to the chopping block and goosenecking and raking it. Just a stock lil 400 xs. Would like to race in the a/g class in the ecta.

Then maybe come out west and play at el mirage next year...

thanks
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Old 06-23-2014, 02:18 PM   #160
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Can you give any more details on the FRame? Like stretch, rake and trail?
thanks
matt morgan

-ECTA Modified 1000cc OHC World Record Holder- OHIO MILE 129MPH
Hey Matt, the rake is 39.5° , trail is 5-6" with these forks.. I designed/fabed the frame from scratch with a bolt on hardtail, there is no stretch figure but it has adjustable height & length axle plates.
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Old 06-25-2014, 12:20 AM   #161
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Update: Last weekend at El Mirage the little 650cc gas pre-unit on my new frame design went 140.439mph!!!


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Old 06-25-2014, 01:58 AM   #162
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

is that not a record for normally asperated , pump fuel ? 650cc Triumph?

whatever, that's impressive is it down to gearing or motor just having ++ whumpf!
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Old 06-25-2014, 07:03 AM   #163
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Ok..140 mph....When you gonna tell me what's inside your engine? All that speed isn't just from a low riding position...I promise not to reveal any secrets
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Old 06-25-2014, 11:28 AM   #164
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Truckedup. I don't know what's inside Alp's engine but I do know that a good tuck position means less drag and less drag means more speed with the same HP. Here's an old but very relevant video for those of us with small capacity engines.


Congrats Alp. Bonneville better be on alert!!
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El Mirage record 500 APS/PG 129.817 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PG 122.240 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PF 120.157 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PG 119.667 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PF 117.186 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBG 111.494 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBF 112.717 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PF 128.703 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PG 121.553 mph
El Mirage record 650 SC/PG 130.224 mph

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Old 06-25-2014, 04:04 PM   #165
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is that not a record for normally asperated , pump fuel ? 650cc Triumph?
Yes this is the record holder bike for normally aspirated 650cc on gasoline "A-VG" It is also faster than the same class A-VG 750cc and 1000cc records.

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Ok..140 mph....When you gonna tell me what's inside your engine? All that speed isn't just from a low riding position...I promise not to reveal any secrets
There is no unknown in the engine, the difference (or if you want to call it a secret) is the way we get the air in and out. I do my own head work and I think this is the main factor.
I also believe that you have to make sure your engine is well balanced and the balance factor is according to your frame and your cam power-band. At 7000+ RPM this engine is very smooth. A smooth well balanced engine is key.
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Old 06-25-2014, 04:28 PM   #166
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

.......I've done about 15 dyno pulls and felt the bike was smooth for a Triumph 650 OIF at 7000 plus RPM. Testing it on the road my vision was blurred by vibration through the rock hard seat and bare steel foot pegs.
My rider says vibration isn't as bad as his street Triumph 650 at 6000 rpm.
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Old 08-05-2014, 05:32 PM   #167
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Just finished the P (Pushrod) class 650cc engine for Bonneville.

I'm going to put this one into my stock Triumph frame and run it in the M-PG class, just to break it in. Eventually it will go into the new A class frame.

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Old 08-05-2014, 05:56 PM   #168
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Looks extremely well Alp. If looks were records you'd have the trophy already. Good luck with it. My effort is not as pretty but if it works I'll live with the looks.

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El Mirage record 500 APS/PG 129.817 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PG 122.240 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PF 120.157 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PG 119.667 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PF 117.186 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBG 111.494 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBF 112.717 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PF 128.703 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PG 121.553 mph
El Mirage record 650 SC/PG 130.224 mph
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Old 08-05-2014, 06:09 PM   #169
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

That's a tidy lil boost device ya have there Hoof..go smash some records next week mate .
Tiny
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Old 08-05-2014, 06:56 PM   #170
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Alp,you running the 650 in MP at Bonneville? We ran 125.00 at the Ohio mile a month ago with a MP 650 Triumph. It's the fastest or close to the fastest time for a MP 650 Triumph in a "stock" frame in any LSR venue..
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Old 08-05-2014, 07:14 PM   #171
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Hoofhearted, I saw that on fb,, great set-up! wish you luck at Bonneville.

Yes Truckedup, same class as yours,, so I guess I will have to go 125+
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Old 08-06-2014, 05:28 AM   #172
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

[QUOTE=astek;1478650

Yes Truckedup, same class as yours,, so I guess I will have to go 125+[/QUOTE]

Yes,make sure it's a swing arm frame not one of those "lower" seating position rigid frames actually MP rules say the seat and handle bars must be above the rear tire unless originally it was lower...
You and Hoof,go fast!!
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Old 08-06-2014, 05:54 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by astek View Post
Just finished the P (Pushrod) class 650cc engine for Bonneville.

I'm going to put this one into my stock Triumph frame and run it in the M-PG class, just to break it in. Eventually it will go into the new A class frame.

My compliments on your engine
i see you have a morris/hunt mag there do the rules not permit electronic ign
or this is your preference for high speed runs?(i am not familiar with rules)
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Old 08-06-2014, 03:54 PM   #174
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Yes,make sure it's a swing arm frame not one of those "lower" seating position rigid frames actually MP rules say the seat and handle bars must be above the rear tire unless originally it was lower...
You and Hoof,go fast!!
Who has a low sitting position?

The stock frame size/geometry is irrelevant, In the M class you have to sit above the tire level and this is what dictates the final height. Your frame is not higher than mine. I'm just tucking in low (: The swing arm frame has better traction and is more stable at high speed, especially on the dry lakes.

This image was taken when I got the M frame record for the vintage class. I will be using the same set up for the Pushrod class.
My hands are above the tire level and thumbs 10" apart,, This bike passed scrutinizing at AMA and SCTA for the M Frame rules!


Quote:
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My compliments on your engine
i see you have a morris/hunt mag there do the rules not permit electronic ign
or this is your preference for high speed runs?(i am not familiar with rules)
EI is totally legal in P class, I just like magnetos.
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Old 08-06-2014, 06:41 PM   #175
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

The bike in the photo looks more like A class,are the foot pegs 6 inches in front of the rear axle?

I believe you are a smaller guy than my rider who is a muscular 6 foot 190 pounds. He just can't get low enough because of his size and the bike itself. I'm 6 foot 165 pound old fuck.. but too chicken shit to ram that thing down a concrete runway at 125. But I have done near 100 on public roads with no helmet...
The other factor is building power into the engine...I'm just a hobbyist... built a number of stock engines but this is my first and only modified Triumph engine. I built with reliability in mind and it's really not too far from stock.

Anyways, tear it up and blow by 125!!!
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Old 08-06-2014, 09:43 PM   #176
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The bike in the photo looks more like A class,are the foot pegs 6 inches in front of the rear axle?

I believe you are a smaller guy than my rider who is a muscular 6 foot 190 pounds. He just can't get low enough because of his size and the bike itself. I'm 6 foot 165 pound old fuck.. but too chicken shit to ram that thing down a concrete runway at 125. But I have done near 100 on public roads with no helmet...
The other factor is building power into the engine...I'm just a hobbyist... built a number of stock engines but this is my first and only modified Triumph engine. I built with reliability in mind and it's really not too far from stock.

Anyways, tear it up and blow by 125!!!

Hey Tony I like your bike and respect your efforts but please make sure you look at my pictures carefully. All the items you have pointed out are totally wrong. The pegs are 7-1/2" in front of the rear axle! Unfortunately I am bigger than your rider as well.
I think it is hard for you to believe it is a M bike because it is faster than the A bikes.

This is why you should come to Bonneville
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Old 08-07-2014, 05:31 AM   #177
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Hmmm...Must be the angle of the photo above,but it looked those lines you drew show the bar ends below the top of the rear tire.... I run a T140 frame that is stock except for narrowed seat tubes.The bike is lowered only two inches from stock ride height.The fuel tank is from a 250 Triumph.The bike is street ridden on occasion..Your machime is more refined for LSR that's for sure. I'm kinda new to this lSR and haven't seen all that much,but your speed records are quite impressive....You should travel east to run the one mile in rough concrete..I believe you would really jack up the record and get rid of the several BSA's chasing the record.

We're taking about Bonneville or El Mirage next year...Money and time to make a 5000 mile round trip is a slight problem...
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Old 08-17-2014, 12:17 AM   #178
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

As most of you know SpeedWeek was rained out. Kind of a pisser but no one controls the weather. The good news is World Finals is on and extended to a week (weather permitting) We got to the salt on Friday afternoon but the sidecar never came off the trailer. The plan is to make it back to World Finals.

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El Mirage record 500 APS/PG 129.817 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PG 122.240 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PF 120.157 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PG 119.667 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PF 117.186 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBG 111.494 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBF 112.717 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PF 128.703 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PG 121.553 mph
El Mirage record 650 SC/PG 130.224 mph

Last edited by Hoofhearted; 08-17-2014 at 12:50 AM.
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Old 08-17-2014, 02:09 AM   #179
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Really like the new body work Bill.
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Old 08-17-2014, 02:34 AM   #180
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Bill, body work looks wicked! I will be at the world finals too, but I'm going to the AMA Bonneville Speed Trials next week with the A-PG set-up. I will run the M-PG and A-VG at the world finals.
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Old 08-17-2014, 11:50 AM   #181
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Thanks Dean and Alp. I'll just be heading for World Finals. Finances will be stretched enough doing this without throwing another meet in.
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El Mirage record 500 APS/PG 129.817 mph
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El Mirage record 500 SC/PF 120.157 mph
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Bonneville record 500 SC/PF 117.186 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBG 111.494 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBF 112.717 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PF 128.703 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PG 121.553 mph
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Old 08-17-2014, 03:30 PM   #182
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Good Luck at the world finals Hoof. By the way.... Where the hell did you get that cool engine anyway?.
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Old 08-17-2014, 04:15 PM   #183
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Thanks DS. I have an ancient long rod Weslake in the Norton and I used to buy my parts from Dave Brant (west coast Weslake dealer and guru). I mentioned to him I was looking for a spare engine. Some time later he called and said he had found "a really good engine". He said he had a look inside and everything was in good shape. Dave is not the sort of guy who'll tell you anything but the truth. I paid a premium price for it but it was money well spent. It has a bunch of records and has been dead reliable despite my hamfisted efforts to destroy it.
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El Mirage record 500 APS/PG 129.817 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PG 122.240 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PF 120.157 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PG 119.667 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PF 117.186 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBG 111.494 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBF 112.717 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PF 128.703 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PG 121.553 mph
El Mirage record 650 SC/PG 130.224 mph
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Old 08-17-2014, 11:14 PM   #184
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Alp,

Nice write up on the bike. Good luck at the AMA meet and I'll see you at World Finals.....
sorry, Speedweek at World Finals.


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Old 08-29-2014, 08:03 PM   #185
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Alp,

Nice write up on the bike. Good luck at the AMA meet and I'll see you at World Finals.....
sorry, Speedweek at World Finals.


Matt Shuss
Thank you Matt, will see you soon! I just got back from the Bonneville Motorcycle Speed Trials last night.
The fresh engine went one qualifying and one record return run, each above 133mph becoming the worlds fastest 650cc pushrod gas bike "A-PG" with an average of 133.464MPH.
Engine measured at impound, record certified by AMA, another one in the book..
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Old 08-29-2014, 08:41 PM   #186
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Well done !
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Old 08-29-2014, 08:47 PM   #187
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Good running on wet salt. Congrats!!
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El Mirage record 500 SC/PG 122.240 mph
El Mirage record 500 SC/PF 120.157 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PG 119.667 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PF 117.186 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBG 111.494 mph
Bonneville record 500 SC/PBF 112.717 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PF 128.703 mph
Bonneville record 650 SC/PG 121.553 mph
El Mirage record 650 SC/PG 130.224 mph
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Old 08-29-2014, 09:28 PM   #188
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Congrats, Alp. You guys (a lot of the LSR guys on here) are making this shit look way too easy. I know it's anything but easy, but you guys are just killin' it.
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Old 08-29-2014, 10:21 PM   #189
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Congrats on the speed. See you at El Mirage.
Are you going to make SpeedWeek @ World Finals?



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Old 08-29-2014, 10:35 PM   #190
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Congrats, Alp. You guys (a lot of the LSR guys on here) are making this shit look way too easy. I know it's anything but easy, but you guys are just killin' it.
Thank you guys, and yes it was especially tough this time. Actually the course was shut down. Rex Svoboda, the race director, asked me personally if I felt comfortable enough to do my record return run. I said yes and I was aware of the situation. I was the last one to run that day.

My bike was geared for 148mph and I was doing 8500rpm. The wheel spin was crazy. The salt felt like wet sand at some areas.

here is a video while checking the engine in the pre-stage area. scroll down
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Alp-R...16765895093045
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Old 08-29-2014, 10:38 PM   #191
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Congrats on the speed. See you at El Mirage.
Are you going to make SpeedWeek @ World Finals?



Matt
Yes, The water on the salt was drying as we left and I think if it doesn't rain too much anymore it will be great in October.
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Old 08-30-2014, 12:29 AM   #192
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I'm going to the salt on Thurs for USFRA and I'll let you know how it is.
Hoping for dry weather.



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Old 08-30-2014, 02:01 AM   #193
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

A Bentley MK VI tow car is pretty sweet. Somebody likes to travel in style....
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Old 08-30-2014, 03:43 AM   #194
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Congrats! That is truly amazing
Hope to see you at WF
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Old 08-30-2014, 06:17 AM   #195
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Alp,good tuning and good riding...And keeping a classic Triumph engine in the record book !
You running 8500 rpm on a stock crank?
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Old 08-30-2014, 11:16 AM   #196
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Alp,good tuning and good riding...And keeping a classic Triumph engine in the record book !
You running 8500 rpm on a stock crank?
Yes a nos one, I modified and balanced it myself. Thanks Tony,
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Old 09-07-2014, 10:56 PM   #197
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

What is done valve train-wise to turn one that tight??
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Old 09-08-2014, 09:45 PM   #198
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What is done valve train-wise to turn one that tight??
Valves are unit type larger ones, nothing fancy such as titanum. I have steel pushrods and I do not like cam gears with holes.
As I mentioned earlier it is the head that makes this engine rev high. I have designed/modified many heads until I figured out what I have now. Here is a video of my Vintage class set-up.
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Old 09-08-2014, 10:58 PM   #199
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no need to increase seat pressure to keep them from floating?
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Old 09-08-2014, 11:33 PM   #200
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no need to increase seat pressure to keep them from floating?
I had valve float on that run, but I don't like springs that are too stiff either.
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Old 09-08-2014, 11:57 PM   #201
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Camshaft profile with regards to spring harmonics is also crucial when turning something that fast. I've done a few 10,000+ RPM small blocks and GM LS builds. You can have all the solid roller and shaft mounted this and that you want but if the cam is whacking the things open and then jumping out from under the lifter, then you're still floating, dropping, breaking etc...

Awesome stuff, thanks for sharing!
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Old 09-26-2014, 12:01 AM   #202
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Default Re: Bonneville & LSR Update

Weekend before last we broke another record at El Mirage.
A-PG 650 131.332mph


This is our 4th 650cc record. Next month we will go after the fuel class record which is 145.979mph.

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