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1966 Bsa 650 on a budget

26K views 214 replies 20 participants last post by  MikeJustice55 
#1 ·
I picked up a 1966 bsa roller with complete engine for $450 at a swap meet about 8 years ago, lost interest and gave it to my dad then decided to build something again so i got it back from him. Heres the plan.... do as much work as possible solo and reuse as many parts as possible to keep this thing CHEAP. I work at a machine shop so i will be making what I can and have good painting skills so we will see how this goes.
 
#4 ·
Love the Brit bikes! I've rebuilt/ restored dozens of BSA machines. they are my bread and butter! Doing the work yourself is the best way to keep costs down. You might be able to get away with just doing a compression test, priming the oil pump and draining the crankcase (it's probably wet sumped since it's been sitting so long), then cleaning the carb(s) and fitting a new battery. I've seen some people get lucky with these old machines, but the trouble is they don't know what sort of state the engine internals are in and never really build any sort of trust in the machine. Since you don't know what you're starting with, my advice is to do a rebuild of the engine...clean the sludge trap, check the journals to see if you need a regrind. Check out the timing side bushing; if it is worn replace it along with the drive side bearing. Replace the con rod bearing shells...check the bore to see if it is reusable, if it is the old pistons will probably still cut the mustard, if not, then its a rebore with new pistons and rings. Check the ignition system...I prefer the stock Lucas points and coil myself, but make sure the timing advance isn't worn...this should be easy for a fellow machinist to repair if necessary. Check the valve guides for wear and replace them if necessary. You may get away with using the old carbs, but I doubt it will work like it should...replacing them is your best bet. Check your transmission bearings...if they turn smoothly, they are probably good for continued use. BSA made a good, reliable machine, trying to 'improve' on them usually does not have the desired results...avoid "bells and whistles".....Oh yeah, IM IN, so keep us posted please!...and pictures, we need pictures! :D
 
#5 ·
Alright so i forgot to take pics before disassemble but i have had a bad experience with a "freshen it up and run it job". The sludge trap killed a triumph motor for me so we are going full disassembly to clean the sludge trap first. Using a press to keep some downward pressure on the sludge plug with a punch i ground down to a flat for the plug. Adjustable wrench on the punch with a 24" cheater bar broke it loose with a litte heat. (Not the hardest one ive dealt with but pretty bad)
 

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#7 · (Edited)
Heres a pic of my fav build ive done previously. Everything from engine disassembly, assembly, paint, welding and fab was all done by me. This was a 1972 I picked up for $600 as a roller project. Finished up i had a total of $2700 in it. And traded it to a dealership in Fort Lauderdale for a Buell 1125R that was street legal with after market parts and tuning for track days. It scared the shit out of me so i sold it.
 

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#9 ·
Heres a pic of my fav build ive done previously. Everything from engine disassembly, assembly, paint, welding and fab was all done by me. This was a 1972 I picked up for $600 as a roller project. Finished up i had a total of $2700 in it. And traded it to a dealership in Fort Lauderdale for a Buell 1125R that was street legal with after market parts and tuning for track days. It scared the shit out of me so i sold it. (Thats my wife btw so keep it classy gents)
Sounds like you know what you're doing...should be an interesting thread. Pretty lady by the way, you're a lucky man!
 
#8 · (Edited)
I'm with Goldy.

Engine rebuild is a must or all your efforts may turn out to be in vain.

You can do most of it yourself guided by reference materials online and help in forums such as this.

I'd advise getting a shop/professional to do these parts for you:

- Build your crank assembly. Making sure rod journals are good, bearing fits correct, and rods are in good shape

- Install the crank assembly in cases. Making sure crank end float and timing bushing fit is correct


As for improvements you should consider:

- Cast iron oil pump, or at least a DD (lateA) stamped oil pump.

- Electronic ignition. Points are nothing to be afraid of, but the setup of British points with the various eccentric point cams and somewhat janky points assemblies could lead to a timing problem that could destroy your work

- Oil filter. This is a religious issue that people will fight to the death. If you go with one, use a low-resistance filter with a pass-through valve on the RETURN side of the oil circuit

Have fun.

Jason

p.s. - just re-read the original post and see that you're a machinist. Guess you can set up your own axial play and bearing fits ;-0
'
 
#12 ·
I'm with Goldy.

Engine rebuild is a must or all your efforts may turn out to be in vain.

You can do most of it yourself guided by reference materials online and help in forums such as this.

I'd advise getting a shop/professional to do these parts for you:

- Build your crank assembly. Making sure rod journals are good, bearing fits correct, and rods are in good shape

- Install the crank assembly in cases. Making sure crank end float and timing bushing fit is correct

As for improvements you should consider:

- Cast iron oil pump, or at least a DD (lateA) stamped oil pump.

- Electronic ignition. Points are nothing to be afraid of, but the setup of British points with the various eccentric point cams and somewhat janky points assemblies could lead to a timing problem that could destroy your work

- Oil filter. This is a religious issue that people will fight to the death. If you go with one, use a low-resistance filter with a pass-through valve on the RETURN side of the oil circuit

Have fun.

Jason

p.s. - just re-read the original post and see that you're a machinist. Guess you can set up your own axial play and bearing fits ;-0
'
Thanks Jason I wouldnt say im really a machinist though. I work at a machine shop but mostly do heavy equipment hydraulic repair. I have a few old dudes that do the real machinst work. I make pins and bushings, custom fittings, and do some aluminum and stainless tig welding. As well as painting anything we fabbed up with the worst industrial paint you can imagine. Im more of a house of kolors guy and i get stuck spraying rustoleum rust X most of the time. I have a lot of experience with automotive short block assembly so im familiar with proper torque sequences, plastiguage and using feeler guages to check endplay. I will look into the oil filter you suggest. And check out the oil pump situation.
 
#10 ·
Yeah, im pretty confident but havent really messed with bsas. I will have questions when it comes to timing the motor and reinstalling the trans, i did it on my trump but that was 6 or 7 years ago. Just trying to see if theres any unusual hiccups ill run into without being a bsa guy.
 
#14 ·
I think you'll find the BSA a better design as far as being oil tight goes...only 4 places to leak on the top end compared 16, or so on other Brit bikes of the period...The crankshaft is a little tricker to set up properly than the Triumph, but the transmission basicaly just 'plugs in' much like the T100 Triumph unit twins. Nice find on the Triumph by the way and I concurr, it's too nice to hack up...when there are so many scrap heaps that need resurection, it makes me sad to see someone cut up a perfectly good machine.
 
#11 ·
I admire your procedure for unplugging the sludge vault. And I don't see many OIF customs I like, and I sure like that one; very tasteful & competent-looking. Purty woman, too. Thanks for showing us pictures. More now please!
 
#13 ·
I just had my dad pick me up another one in Alabama, he brought it home today after work. It looks close to original 1972 so i dont know if i can cut this one up or not. It may just get an engine rebuild and a freshen up. Id feel bad destroying a numbers matching bike.
 

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#15 ·
Started polishing the crank today, its cleaning up very nicely. I did a few rounds of 800 grit with wd40 to clean the staining off. There doesnt seem to be any pitting so ill hit it again with 1500 then polish with rubbing compound after that and then get the micrometers out and start measuring to make sure it is not out of round and within the correct tolerances before i get some new bearings and plastiguage it. Looks like the motor had water in it at some point to cause rust and staining. Checked out the main bearings and i will have to replace bearing, bushing and race. On a side note all of my coworkers at my shop think i bought a bunch of knock off wrenches that have the sizes labeled wrong. I get a kick out of that.
 

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#17 ·
If you're wanting inspiration, I rebuilt my '66 Lightning (more than once).

Pics and details here: http://jasonmcelroy.com/bsaredo.htm
Was a clogged sludge trap the reason for loss of oil pressure? Thats a very nice bike btw, i wish i had an original tank for mine. It seems to have almost everythine else though. Also i hope i dont run into too many issues with the timing bushings and shimming and installing the crank properly.
 
#22 ·
Yeah every engine ive ever rebuilt, motorcycle, automotive, or marine suggests you replace rod and head bolts for reassembly. (I dont unless im building something radical or ot looks to be damaged) I think the machine work may have been the culprit or the rod bolt was defective. I doubt the rod bolts have significant stretch with the torque they require. I did notice that all of the hardware for this motor seems to be low quality steel and threads damage very easily. I ordered a couple 5/16 26 tpi taps at work so ill be threading some hex shaft and making new nuts for most of my hardware including my rod end nuts. I'll also be making some nuts with that thread in 7/16 hex so that one impossible nut in the center of the motor to split the cases will be easy to deal with next time.
 
#23 ·
Cool.

I suppose that if that central nut is nearly inaccessible, it's also nearly unphotographable. I don't know BSA twins (or much else, really). If it's no great inconvenience, would you somehow show the soon-to-be-7/16" nut you're talking about?
 
#29 ·
This is the nut im talking about. A 1/4 w socket fits the nut but wont clear the casting of the engine for the socket to fit. So i ended up machining a 13mm socket down to basically paper thin and tapping it on with a hammer to remove the nut. Now I drilled and tapped standard 7/16" hex bar to make a 5/16×26 nut that a 7/16" socket will fit easily with no clearance issues
 

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#24 ·
So I have been cleaning, a lot. Got the crank journals polished up and it appears that every oil port is completely clogged (compressed air isnt even getting through the ports) so ill be getting small pipe cleaners to clean those a little better. I measured everything today and i will be using the old cam bushings and timing bushing because they have very little wear and measured within the correct tolerence. The crank and cam are also in good shape after a hand polish.
 

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#25 ·
The speedo on this bike said it had 6785 miles on it. You never really know if thats true or not but most of what ive found to be damaged in the engine is due to rust and sitting oil that turned to hard crud. But i did find that one rocker nut was different than oem and eventually found the oem nut jammed between the lifter and cam. This caused the valve to kiss a piston and bend a pushrod and wipe out a cam lobe. Thats why the bike got parked and hasnt been registered since 1977. (The cam im using for the engine now came out of a spare case that came with the bike. It had an extra crank, cam, set of rods and a few little parts left bolted to it)
 

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#28 ·
Got the crank polished up and installed to check the crank float, it had one .005 thick shim already so it looks like one more .005 shim and i will be right at the acceptable .003 float. I wish i would have ordered a shim pack with the seals that just came yesterday.
 

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#30 ·
Looks like you're doing it right! Nice work.

Are you using the steel cup/washer that guards the shim(s) from rubbing on the case? I think the .005" shim wouldn't last long otherwise. Are these the same pieces you took out when you disassembled?

That nut is a pain. I also skimmed down a socket to get that one off. Also just like you, I've made new nuts with less "meat" in them to use a normal socket in obstructed positions like that one.

Looks like you're having fun.

Looking forward to seeing the end result.

Jason
 
#31 ·
Thanks Jason, yeah it had the cup with a .005 when i disassembled it. Ive gotta order the shim kit from classic British spares friday. The only .010 or .005 material i had at work has already been cut into circular shims but they're too big. I still have to repair the crank sludge trap plug threads and plastiguage the rods to make sure all is well before assembling the lower end for good.

What are you guys using to seal the case halves??

I was thinking gray rtv silicone because i love that stuff and if i have to split the case again later i know they will separate.
 
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