I need a carb that doesn't make me question my sanity - The Jockey Journal Board

Go Back   The Jockey Journal Board > General Discussion > The Board

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11-05-2017, 11:45 AM   #1
GEN IV
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Southeast Tx
Posts: 168
Default I need a carb that doesn't make me question my sanity

Genny Shovel, 74", minor minor head work, stock cam etc... points, kick-only kinda deal. Very basic stuff.

I've got a non-externally adjustable Bendix on it now and the bike has always been hard to start when cold. I've tried every combo of throttle position, choke, # of pumps and it makes little to no difference. It's literally a 15-25 kick affair once the bike gets stone cold. Once it's warmed up, 1-2 kicks and away you go. I've verified the timing, valve adjustment, you name it. I've visually verified the accelerator pump is doing its job. No dice. So there's that issue....

I also have an issue once running. If you get much more a crack of the throttle, it'll drop the rear cylinder. If you roll slightly out of it or go a hair past it, you're good. But it pretty much does away with the possibility of a liesurely ride haha. I'm honestly thinking at this point that I have got a worn spot in that part of the travel (throttle shaft vs carb body) making a lean spot right there. This carb does have a lot of years/miles on it. It's got fresh rubber bands on the intake also.

Do you fellas think I have any sort of recourse other than a carb swap? I'm considering going back with the same thing just externally adjustable so it's tunable on the fly. I've also toyed with the idea of a new S&S B. A pair of Amal 930's have crossed my mind as well since I have a brand new duo sitting in boxes waiting on my Bonnie.... I've always wanted to play with dual carbs on this old thing...

Drop some knowledge on me.
__________________
67' Bonnie
67' Shuv

Last edited by GEN IV; 11-05-2017 at 11:51 AM.
GEN IV is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-05-2017, 11:58 AM   #2
GEN IV
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Southeast Tx
Posts: 168
Default Re: I need a carb that doesn't make me question my sanity

public offender #1
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0073.jpg
Views:	97
Size:	995.3 KB
ID:	244249  
__________________
67' Bonnie
67' Shuv
GEN IV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2017, 12:12 PM   #3
Larry T
Senior Member
 
Larry T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: North Central Texas
Posts: 2,888
Default Re: I need a carb that doesn't make me question my sanity

S&S has always been my rock solid, no problems carb. Not real sexy, but it gets the job done. There is a reason they are on every other bike you see.

CVs are about the same and cheaper.
__________________
I foresee yet another closely defined historic term being corrupted, aborted and ruined.-Dragon

My old Panhead build: https://www.jockeyjournal.com/forum/s...ead.php?t=9455

Occasionally updated Knucklehead project: https://www.jockeyjournal.com/forum/a...p?albumid=3625
Larry T is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Old 11-05-2017, 01:24 PM   #4
magnum45pete
Senior Member
 
magnum45pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Brighton England
Posts: 1,649
Default Re: I need a carb that doesn't make me question my sanity

if you want an easy to start, good performance, easy to set carb you can fit & forget & don't care about being either ''Cool'' with your ''Bros'' or ''period correct'' go for a CV,... great carbs.
Hands down better than an S&S any day,....
if you want one with more power and about as easy to set up go for a Mikuni,.....
For pure power go for a Lectron .
Other good carbs are the SU,...very dependable & the no frills,cheap Mikuni VM range.
for me, & it is a personal thing, I would never buy or fit an S&S,... hard to set up, over priced archaic carb from Noah's Arc....
magnum45pete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2017, 01:42 PM   #5
bobscogin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Lacombe, LA
Posts: 1,740
Default Re: I need a carb that doesn't make me question my sanity

I've had very few motorcycles that weren't improved by switching to a Mikuni VM.

Bob
bobscogin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2017, 01:50 PM   #6
GEN IV
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Southeast Tx
Posts: 168
Default Re: I need a carb that doesn't make me question my sanity

I could give a shit about "cool", "bros", or "correct" I want this thing to go when I want it to and not give me quite the number of issues it does now.
__________________
67' Bonnie
67' Shuv
GEN IV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2017, 02:08 PM   #7
govmule84
Forum Dipshit
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 4,013
Default Re: I need a carb that doesn't make me question my sanity

I'm with Larry. A Super E doesn't hit the knee, runs fine on most Shovels with a 295 and a 72 jet, and fucking works. I can tune one in my sleep at this point. They work, which is kind of a nice feature.
__________________
"Polished chrome and shiny paint were our gods and we prayed at their altar. Patina does not mean neglect but the wear and tear from use and care." - VonWegener
govmule84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2017, 02:44 PM   #8
JAWS
Senior Member
 
JAWS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: la la land
Posts: 8,512
Default Re: I need a carb that doesn't make me question my sanity

You said # of pumps but make referrence that the accel pump dont work...

Fix that first.
__________________
60% of the time, it works every time...
JAWS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2017, 02:46 PM   #9
JAWS
Senior Member
 
JAWS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: la la land
Posts: 8,512
Default Re: I need a carb that doesn't make me question my sanity

You also said just off idle it will drop a hole...until it picks up enough fuel.

Accel pump symptom. Fix it.
__________________
60% of the time, it works every time...
JAWS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2017, 06:19 PM   #10
shovithead
Senior Member
 
shovithead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Cocoa Florida USA
Posts: 2,485
Default Re: I need a carb that doesn't make me question my sanity

This is a area of argument, like which spark plugs are the best. So, as each of us have had our successes, and failures, remember, on another motorcycle, the one that failed you, may not for him. so, this is mostly our opinions. There are some I don't like, and some I do. But the one you need, is the one that will work on YOUR bike. since you are not worried about bros cool or correct, then the field is wide open.

Main problem is, you probably don't have several carbs laying around to just swap. And buying one each, is not very cost effective, unless you want to open a carb shop.

S&S, sells a bolt on kit, expensive, but they will only require two minor adjustments. You will NOT find a new B, unless you want to buy mine, which is new as it was when I bought it in 1981. Plus, they are long as a elephant snout, and unless you like your carb sticking out a foot, to rest your knee against, you would be more interested in the Super E. the G is a little tall for your bike, unless you are planning on a stroker and cam.

CV's, can be bought on Ebay for around 150, if you search. Here, you are buying a used carb, and the deal is, buyer beware. It is perfect, usually means that it only has a few problems that are not easily fixed. Not all, but buyer beware on used carbs. If they will take it on return, you are usually safe. On the CV, you will need the special intake and a way to mount it, or a special one piece adapter that you epoxy on the carb. Shovels were not set up for them, but they run great on them. Plus, a air cleaner for the CV is only the one that fits the CV. No others will mount, without alterations.

The Keihin butterfly(the CV is a Keihin too, but a slide carb), carb is pretty reliable too, although most don't like them. I do, but I like the old carbs. Pretty easy to find on Ebay, or other swap meets, kits are cheap, and they bolt up to the same intake you have, plus most air cleaners will fit, including the one on your Bendix.

Bendix too, are great carbs. I have three bikes with them, and they all kick, and start on the first 3 or 4 kicks, cold or hot. Most problems with Bendix, is that they make a "Cheap" rebuild kit. You know, the one that never fits on the carb,,,, that one. And, they make a OEM one, that cost a arm and a leg(not really, but twice as much), but the parts fit. the Acc pump on the cheap kits, is truly worse than shit. The BENDIX factory kits, the Acc pump slides in the bore, like butter.

And then, there are the more one offs, like Lectron, Andrews, and the great, but less preforming Linkert and DC's.

Not to mention the Tillison. Forget this one, unless you are a real carb man. Plus the kits are a little expensive. They run like a scalded dog when set up correctly. But do ing that, sometimes is elusive. Ask me how I know, after over 20 years of Sportsters of the era, when we did not have S&S to use as a crutch.

Anyway, there is no easy answer to your problem. I would start with a new, OEM BENDIX kit, and float adjustment. the adjustable mainjets are not expensive. but not a cure all either. You can get the jet sets for about 15 bucks each, and if you know how to read your plugs, you can dial the jets in pretty easy.

Sorry I am so long winded, but a good explanation, with no real answer is hard.
__________________
Keep the old Iron on the road....

42 UL long term project
44 Wife and best friend(Keeper for sure)
51 FLH short term project
60 Doc Dytch XLCH Drag only
61 XLCH parts bike
65 XLCH parts bike
66 FLH
68 XLCH parts bike
69 XLH wifies bike
69 XLH daily rider
70 XLH
72 XLH
72 C30 Chevy truck
73 FLH chopper(Shirley the Shovelhead) Daily rider
shovithead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2017, 06:22 PM   #11
shovithead
Senior Member
 
shovithead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Cocoa Florida USA
Posts: 2,485
Default Re: I need a carb that doesn't make me question my sanity

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAWS View Post
You said # of pumps but make referrence that the accel pump dont work...

Fix that first.
Sorry man, but reread his first post. He says it works, and he saw it visually. So, even though the pump is a major problem with most Bendix carbs, his seems to be working.

But, we still make a good team, when the going gets tough. To bad you or I can's swim better. You would be one I would like to spend a few weeks with, hanging in the shop. I love to learn, even at my age.

My swimming sucks.....
__________________
Keep the old Iron on the road....

42 UL long term project
44 Wife and best friend(Keeper for sure)
51 FLH short term project
60 Doc Dytch XLCH Drag only
61 XLCH parts bike
65 XLCH parts bike
66 FLH
68 XLCH parts bike
69 XLH wifies bike
69 XLH daily rider
70 XLH
72 XLH
72 C30 Chevy truck
73 FLH chopper(Shirley the Shovelhead) Daily rider
shovithead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2017, 07:04 PM   #12
farmall
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: South Cacklackie
Posts: 379
Default Re: I need a carb that doesn't make me question my sanity

Quote:
CV's, can be bought on Ebay for around 150, if you search. Here, you are buying a used carb, and the deal is, buyer beware. It is perfect, usually means that it only has a few problems that are not easily fixed. Not all, but buyer beware on used carbs. If they will take it on return, you are usually safe. On the CV, you will need the special intake and a way to mount it, or a special one piece adapter that you epoxy on the carb. Shovels were not set up for them, but they run great on them. Plus, a air cleaner for the CV is only the one that fits the CV. No others will mount, without alterations.

The Keihin butterfly(the CV is a Keihin too, but a slide carb), carb is pretty reliable too, although most don't like them. I do, but I like the old carbs. Pretty easy to find on Ebay, or other swap meets, kits are cheap, and they bolt up to the same intake you have, plus most air cleaners will fit, including the one on your Bendix.
Quoted for truth. Don't overthink carbs on a Harley. They aren't vintage road racers, they are two-wheeled farm equipment and that's a GOOD thing.

Any carb can be persuaded to work, but I'm seeing more and more of my old fart peers running CVs on Pans and Shovels. They've been through plenty of other carbs and know their shit. If I didn't have an accumulation of Super Bs and Es from before the CVs were produced I'd likely run one and might anyway.

We used to throw away worn Bendixes in the 1980s and replace them with butterfly Keihin takeoffs from Evo big twins. Good carbs but get the accelerator pump cover with the check ball. V-Twin makes a copy of the Andrews cover which was a copy of an earlier stock Keihin cover. About 20 bucks.
farmall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2017, 07:48 PM   #13
GEN IV
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Southeast Tx
Posts: 168
Default Re: I need a carb that doesn't make me question my sanity

A CV has been on the list of consideration for some time. I didn't realize the B stuck out so far and I don't have a ton of room under the 5gal tanks. My right peg placement sorta limits how far I can have a carb out in the wind... I have learned the lesson of knees against carbs with a few pairs of jeans missing the inside right knee hahahaha a filtered velocity stack made quick work of some of my favorite Levi's years ago...

I don't want to over think this thing. The bike belonged to my dad since I was a teenager and has since been entrusted to me in my 30's. I'm familiar with every nut and bolt and turned every wrench on it for the last several years. He wants to see it back beating up pavement like it used to and frankly I do too. I basically aim to set this bike up where it's a little more "enjoyable" and not such a kick in the jewelry every time you want to go for a stroll. The Old man put him together an Evo chop and still rides, and I plan on making lots of miles next to him in the coming years.
__________________
67' Bonnie
67' Shuv
GEN IV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2017, 05:09 AM   #14
Lester
Senior Member
 
Lester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Norway
Posts: 1,597
Default Re: I need a carb that doesn't make me question my sanity

I'm happy with my swap from S&S to SU.

Lester
__________________
'62 DuoGlide Mine for 25yrs
'62 Triumph T-Bird in boxes
'83 BMW R100 commuter
'52 Triumph Speed Twin Bastard
70's'80's couple of Jap chops too
Lester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2017, 06:43 AM   #15
KELD
Senior Member
 
KELD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 1,390
Default Re: I need a carb that doesn't make me question my sanity

S&S with big ass Accelerator pump.
KELD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2017, 08:59 AM   #16
geezer
Senior Member
 
geezer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Knobbly Mountain
Posts: 732
Default Re: I need a carb that doesn't make me question my sanity

The Kehin CV is the logical evolution of the SU automotive carb. Much simpler and easy to tune it just works. Parts availability is as good as it get and it compensates for altitude and weather changes. Truly set it and forget it. A great choice for the characteristics you stated.
__________________
Patina doesn't come in a can........
geezer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2017, 09:47 AM   #17
zedboy
Senior Member
 
zedboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ireland
Posts: 300
Default Re: I need a carb that doesn't make me question my sanity

CV on my kick only, points fired evo. Tuned it to suit with a thunderjet kit ten years ago & haven't had to touch it since. 1 or 2 kick bike, unless of course, there's any kind of audience, in which case all bets are off.
zedboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2017, 12:07 PM   #18
richbob
Senior Member
 
richbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Atlantic coast.
Posts: 2,450
Default Re: I need a carb that doesn't make me question my sanity

My cv stuttered other day
Pulled slide like grey smeg on it shot of wd40 and a wipe
Maintainince done for another year.
When I first put on from linkert it was like a whole different bike.


Sent from Motorcycle.com Free App
__________________
Rush Rush to the Yayo. Blondie

"Ultimately were all dead men"(Oliver Reed.Gladiator)
richbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2017, 01:13 PM   #19
Blackbetty
Senior Member
 
Blackbetty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Dallas
Posts: 195
Default Re: I need a carb that doesn't make me question my sanity

My carb experience with 74" mag fired kick only shovel:

Dual mikuni VM34s - I didn't like this setup to keep it more than a thousand or so miles. Constant tinkering, like an adjustment at every light. Dual carbs look righteous as hell but is an overcomplication for an easy going daily. Dual throttle cables would probably fix a lot of this, the 2-1 are finnicky.

CV - a very safe choice and work well. I use one on my evo sporty and it kicks ass. But man they're boring on old harleys IMO. I can't say anything bad about these carbs, they just work well on harleys even if they're white bread. Definitely the most consistent of the bunch.

Super E with a thunderjet - tuned per zippers method. I used a 2" manifold block, yost power tube, all the bells and whistles. This carb pulled the hardest and started easily cold or hot but had what I felt was a very unlinear fuel delivery - very snatchy and matched with forged pistons I felt like I could feel every combustion stroke. To this day I don't think I ever saw that Tjet kick in. It's also the carb on everybody's bike.

Lectron powerjet 38mm - My current carb. I ran this carb initially with a bad tune and was unimpressed but have since given it another try and have unlocked it's potential. It's a one kick carb, gets good mileage, and is moron proof simple. The powerjet is more dynamic than a thunderjet - it hits when you crack the throttle past the halfway point, which is why people commonly refer to these carbs as good for WOT only. If you're used to the 1/4 turn of an S&S, this carb will take getting used to because the throttle spring tension is light and it's a roll on. The carb has an extremely linear fuel delivery and part throttle coughs or sputs are nonexistent, a very good cruiser. When tuned correctly you'll never notice you don't have an accelerator pump. Use a factory HD intake with this carb. Things I don't like - to idle cleanly you have to keep it at least 1500 rpm, even with a heavy throttle spring the throttle is light, expensive for a slide carb w/o an accelerator pump, IE, HSR42.


Last edited by Blackbetty; 11-06-2017 at 01:19 PM.
Blackbetty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2017, 03:43 PM   #20
shovithead
Senior Member
 
shovithead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Cocoa Florida USA
Posts: 2,485
Default Re: I need a carb that doesn't make me question my sanity

If you are trying to keep it like the "Old man" did, then you need to just buy a good Bendix rebuild kit. Before you do, check the throttle shaft, by pressurizing it with soapy water, and see if it boils bubbles out of the bushing area. Now, even that does not mean that it is shot. Just that the shaft(in 90 percent of the cases), which is a coated brass, will be eggshaped from running at the same speed, for hours on end. In that case(if you feel movement in your hand, something is worn out), you would need to pull the shaft, to see if it has worn to a egg shape, or even reduced in size, in the bushing area. If the body is bad, then you need another carb, unless you want to spend the cash to have it bushed and honed for a new shaft. But, the Bendix is your cheapest route, if a rebuild kit will fix it. the last OEM Bendix kit I purchased, was about 40 bucks. So don't even waste your money on the 20 dollar kit. The adjustable main is just another 50 or 60 bucks, unless you can find one on Ebay or a swap meet in a used carb. Believe me, half the carbs I buy from the meets that are Bendix, have adjustable mains.

Another area of interest, is the float level. The book calls for a 3/16ths drill bit, laid on the carb base(upside down) farthest away from the pivot pin/needle valve side. Bend tab, until the drill will move without moving the float. Look at installation directions and read about the installation of the needle valve, and the holder, sometimes has to be tweaked a little, to make it slip back in the inlet housing. Do it wrong, and the needle will cock, and not let the fuel shut off when the bowl is full. Not to mention, the pivot pin float spring, which confuses most, and they leave it out. It will run without it, but it is more prone to leak when the bike is off and the fuel left in the on position.
__________________
Keep the old Iron on the road....

42 UL long term project
44 Wife and best friend(Keeper for sure)
51 FLH short term project
60 Doc Dytch XLCH Drag only
61 XLCH parts bike
65 XLCH parts bike
66 FLH
68 XLCH parts bike
69 XLH wifies bike
69 XLH daily rider
70 XLH
72 XLH
72 C30 Chevy truck
73 FLH chopper(Shirley the Shovelhead) Daily rider
shovithead is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:40 PM.