Triumph TLS Front Hub/Brake: rivited body and trapped debris - The Jockey Journal Board

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Old 04-05-2016, 11:39 AM   #1
ericthebeard
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Default Triumph TLS Front Hub/Brake: rivited body and trapped debris

Hello once again...

As many know, I am rebuilding an old panhead with a Triumph TLS front hub off a '68 Bonnie. That's the "one year only" TLS front they used with the cable stop at 7 o'clock vs the 12 o'clock ones later.

The construction appears to be a thick cast outter drum section (which carries the load of the braking force through the spokes and to the ground, which is why its the beefier bit I imagine) with two hemispherical sections riveted to it to make the center of the hub body (carrying the bearings, etc). The issue is that between those two dishes, there seems to be a lot of crap stuck in there. As I move the wheel around it sounds like sand sliding around or just like a rain stick.

Everyone loves pictures:

Left hand side of the hub, you can see the rivets from the center section attaching to the thicker outter body.

IMG_3432 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

Right hand side (As I unlock the bearing retainer with a little heat). Here's also the braking surface.

IMG_3214 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

I imagine that its not a great thing to have that junk in there and would possibly like to get it out for nothing else but my own OCD sanity. But...

Options:
1) leave it there and don't mess with it.
2) get it out.

Now, sub options of option 2:
2.1) Drill speed holes in one side of the plates and shake it empty... while weakening the structure and adding in style I'm not necessarily after.
2.2) Grind off the rivies and really clean it out. This is the most theoretical part. I am only assuming this is how its constructed.

Ive seen people do similar things to option 2.2 with juice drums, replacing the riveted sprocket rings with a zillion little properly-sized machine screws or bolts with LOTS of locktite. This appears even easier because there's really no torque needing to be transferred through the plates, other than drag off the axle bearings the the linear loads of the ground pushing back through the tire to the frame... (I think anyway)

I should mention once again that I assuming certain parts of what the inners of this wheel will look like if it were to come apart. More definitive info on that would be great.

Thoughts?
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Old 04-05-2016, 12:41 PM   #2
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Default Re: Triumph TLS Front Hub/Brake: rivited body and trapped debris

I like option one to just leave it alone. You can tell yourself that that is the best option because the loose particles would help balance the drum just like balancing fluid in tires does.
To improve the looks turning down the diameter of the backing plate does wonders.
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Old 04-06-2016, 12:36 PM   #3
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Default Re: Triumph TLS Front Hub/Brake: rivited body and trapped debris

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I like option one to just leave it alone. You can tell yourself that that is the best option because the loose particles would help balance the drum just like balancing fluid in tires does.
To improve the looks turning down the diameter of the backing plate does wonders.
Easy enough

And I am still putting together my "make it realllllly pretty" list of to-do's for the front. There are still some crusty elements in general, especially that left side if I don't run any sort of pie plate covering the raw hub... maybe paint? But I'd still like to keep the right side backing plate that lovely raw cast aluminum look...
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Old 04-06-2016, 02:26 PM   #4
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Default Re: Triumph TLS Front Hub/Brake: rivited body and trapped debris

The '66 and '67 models have more attractive pie plates than the '68 which is a styling disaster. And you are the master of your kingdom when it comes surface finishing
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Old 04-06-2016, 02:42 PM   #5
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Default Re: Triumph TLS Front Hub/Brake: rivited body and trapped debris

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The '66 and '67 models have more attractive pie plates than the '68 which is a styling disaster. And you are the master of your kingdom when it comes surface finishing
Do you know offhand whether the other year 8" hub pie plates are direct bolt-on's to the '68 hub?

The 68 has three lil set screws at the hub perimeter.
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Old 04-06-2016, 03:30 PM   #6
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Default Re: Triumph TLS Front Hub/Brake: rivited body and trapped debris

I do not know about the pre 66 hubs that have the spokes come through the drum but the '66 and newer drums with the flange on the backing plate side all share the same size on the left although the earlier ones are crimped on. I never had a hub with set screws but then I never owned a stock '68 or newer..
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Old 04-06-2016, 03:41 PM   #7
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Default Re: Triumph TLS Front Hub/Brake: rivited body and trapped debris

Interesting.

FYI you can see the set screws in the pic above at about 3, 7, and 10 o'clock.
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Old 04-06-2016, 04:35 PM   #8
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Default Re: Triumph TLS Front Hub/Brake: rivited body and trapped debris

Yeah I never have seen these screws. Maybe they aren't original?
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Old 04-07-2016, 12:28 AM   #9
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Default Re: Triumph TLS Front Hub/Brake: rivited body and trapped debris

i dont think their original, either. I`v rebuilt a couple/3 of those and have never seen them before, but i`v also never had a hub that had anything except dried grease in there either! Once the bearings were out and that void rinsed clean w/acetone i would think that a suction hose equipped blowgun would suck anything not supposed to be in there out!
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Old 04-07-2016, 01:12 PM   #10
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Default Re: Triumph TLS Front Hub/Brake: rivited body and trapped debris

+1 on the non-original screws. I've got a wheel apart now from a '69 that was just crimped. (OK, it's from a BSA, but it's the same wheel for those years.)
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Old 04-07-2016, 01:30 PM   #11
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Default Re: Triumph TLS Front Hub/Brake: rivited body and trapped debris

agreed, '68 wheel i have does not have the (3) screws.
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Old 04-07-2016, 02:52 PM   #12
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Default Re: Triumph TLS Front Hub/Brake: rivited body and trapped debris

Fair 'nuff. Thanks for the input guys!

I think the existing hub side has a date with the wire wheel and some paint...

If I wanted to disassemble the wheel to get access to all surfaces for a cleanup and paint job, is the reassembly something reasonable to do in a basic shop without any real experience? Especially the tensioning/trueing process.
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Old 04-07-2016, 03:33 PM   #13
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Default Re: Triumph TLS Front Hub/Brake: rivited body and trapped debris

Around here having a wheel assembled and trued is around $40. I am sure it will be close to that in Seattle. So that is your monetary gamble. If you disassemble the wheel it will be a lot easier to clean and polish the spokes and nipples.
Plus it does not hurt to know how to lace and true a wire wheel.
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Old 04-08-2016, 02:36 AM   #14
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Default Re: Triumph TLS Front Hub/Brake: rivited body and trapped debris

Don't be intimidated by wheel building. Theres some good info on the web.
Get the correct spoke set, take some pics and measurements before disassemble
And a quality spoke key.
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Old 04-08-2016, 04:49 AM   #15
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Default Re: Triumph TLS Front Hub/Brake: rivited body and trapped debris

This has some good pointers:

http://agwalker.com/wheelbuilding.html
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Old 04-08-2016, 06:47 AM   #16
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Default Re: Triumph TLS Front Hub/Brake: rivited body and trapped debris

That's a double walled affair with a space in between full of rust debris...Drill two half inch holes 180 degrees apart and blow out the debris...
You can see in this photo during my recent T120 build how I left off the cover and drilled the front hub for a "racey" look..The inside wall prevents seeing the brake shoes...

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Old 04-08-2016, 01:04 PM   #17
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Default Re: Triumph TLS Front Hub/Brake: rivited body and trapped debris

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Originally Posted by Truckedup View Post
That's a double walled affair with a space in between full of rust debris...Drill two half inch holes 180 degrees apart and blow out the debris...
You can see in this photo during my recent T120 build how I left off the cover and drilled the front hub for a "racey" look..The inside wall prevents seeing the brake shoes...
Awesome, seems you know exactly the setup I am trying to describe. So the outer wall thickness is enough that drilling it out won't affect its strength much?
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Old 04-08-2016, 01:05 PM   #18
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Default Re: Triumph TLS Front Hub/Brake: rivited body and trapped debris

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Originally Posted by richbob View Post
Don't be intimidated by wheel building. Theres some good info on the web.
Get the correct spoke set, take some pics and measurements before disassemble
And a quality spoke key.
Thanks for the tips. Are you saying that I should rebuild with new spoke sets or is reusing the ones with the existing built wheel an okay practice?
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Old 04-08-2016, 02:07 PM   #19
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Default Re: Triumph TLS Front Hub/Brake: rivited body and trapped debris

depends how Brassic you are
I would buy stainless new butted.(but thats me)
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Old 04-08-2016, 03:45 PM   #20
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Default Re: Triumph TLS Front Hub/Brake: rivited body and trapped debris

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Awesome, seems you know exactly the setup I am trying to describe. So the outer wall thickness is enough that drilling it out won't affect its strength much?
Drilling two small holes or even a group of large ones won't affect the strength...
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