Right Case bearing race 64 panhead - The Jockey Journal Board

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Old 02-19-2020, 02:12 PM   #1
evenumber_8
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Hello everyone, I have a 1964 panhead right side case bearing race question. How can I tell if it’s bad or going bad? I know that if it has pitting that it’s recommended to be replaced. Mine does not have any pitting, but has some black dots (very very small) it’s perfectly smooth and when I try installing the crank it has the correct play. Can I get away with just replacing the bearing, or should I hone it and put oversized rollers? I’m trying to avoid pressing the bearing out because it might crack the case. Any help is appreciated!

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Old 02-19-2020, 02:13 PM   #2
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Here are some pics
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Old 02-19-2020, 02:15 PM   #3
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More pics
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Old 02-19-2020, 04:52 PM   #4
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Default Re: Right Case bearing race 64 panhead

This is were some one steps in and tells you to purchase a OEM harley service manual for your bike.
Point is the race can and usually is lapped to fit over size rollers. The manual shows how this is done and the special tools need to do it right.
You can get by with a Sunnen type precision hone.
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Old 02-25-2020, 10:32 AM   #5
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I already got a couple of manuals, but that’s not my question. I know how to fit oversized bearings, I’m asking if the race is bad based on the pictures.
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Old 02-25-2020, 02:05 PM   #6
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Default Re: Right Case bearing race 64 panhead

Good you know how. So why haven't you lapped to a oversize and see if it cleans up? That is how it's done. Manuals, couple of, NO. You need a factory Harley Davidson manual. This is all covered in those manuals. As far as the pictures i have no comment. I will say, if you have it this far and you can see marks from the roller ends then oversize it.
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Old 02-25-2020, 02:21 PM   #7
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Default Re: Right Case bearing race 64 panhead

first thing is a dial bore gage -

1 see if its round

if you have the pinion shaft that was in the engine and the rollers you can measure it all up to see if it was in spec

its all straight forward shop machine work
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Old 02-26-2020, 01:51 AM   #8
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Yeah I got a Harley, clymer and Rick Schunk’s book. I can’t find it anywhere there if this bearing is bad. NO, you don’t have to lap or hone or scrape every bearing race, only if they’re severely deteriorated or out of round. Mine is still rounded, just has the black spots. Someone knowledgeable about this subject dm’ed me the answer I’m looking for. Thanks.
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Old 02-26-2020, 04:51 AM   #9
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Default Re: Right Case bearing race 64 panhead

You wanna share what the answer was and who provided it?

I'm no bottom-end expert (insert ass joke here), but that would concern me a bit. I, too, would be hesitant to lap more than I needed, but I think those look fucky.

Inquiring minds...
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Old 02-26-2020, 08:26 AM   #10
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I’ll share the answer, he said that as long as the bearing race is completely smooth it should be ok. I’ll keep his name out of it because the reason I think he dm’ed me is because he doesn’t want to deal with other people’s differing expert opinions. He’s mentioned something about the scratch marks and it looks like it was sanded by sand paper, I thought they’re leftover hone marks. But could be possible that the shop I got it from did it. When you say “fucky”, what exactly do you mean? Can you provide some specifics? Like I said before, it’s perfectly smooth and he said use crocus cloth to polish. I think I’m comfortable with that solution since no one can actually say with sufficient argument that this bearing race is bad. Thanks all for your time.
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Old 02-26-2020, 09:21 AM   #11
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Default Re: Right Case bearing race 64 panhead

my $00.02 worth is if there is ANY doubt, replace it or hone it, that way you KNOW all is good...……...
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Old 02-26-2020, 02:59 PM   #12
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Default Re: Right Case bearing race 64 panhead

Another vote for line lapping/honing THEN evaluating.

Jason

Last edited by JasonMcElroy; 02-26-2020 at 11:17 PM. Reason: add "lapping"
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Old 02-26-2020, 04:04 PM   #13
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Default Re: Right Case bearing race 64 panhead

As was mentioned you can measure or hone a small amount to assure a round race. You haven't mentioned if you are fitting new bearings or reinstalling the old parts. By the way the races in Harley are lapped or honed with 220 grit stones or compound, the coarsest crocus cloth is around 600 grit. The black spots are from rust. There will be no pictures in the Harley manual showing every bad condition. But in the text it explains what is acceptable. Any condition other than what is acceptable is reason enough to refurbish. To get answers you need to provide all the information, or this thread turns into a trip down the rabbit hole.
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Old 02-27-2020, 06:09 PM   #14
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Default Re: Right Case bearing race 64 panhead

while your expertise is only you to know - don't take that sort of job on with out someone who routinely sizes races

reason - the over size is in tenths like .0002 and the largest normally is .001 using the incorrect stuff you will be at .002 in less then 3 minuets - and that is having the very expensive tooling to do it with

you un named pal is not incorrect when saying if its smooth all the way around fit it to spec and go -

these sort of jobs sure you would like to say you did but somethings you need experience beyond a home garage or even a newish shop

its not expensive it have done don't cause yourself major headaches over this see one of the right shops to do this for you
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Old 02-27-2020, 09:01 PM   #15
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Default Re: Right Case bearing race 64 panhead

Quote:
Originally Posted by evenumber_8 View Post
Iíll share the answer, he said that as long as the bearing race is completely smooth it should be ok. Iíll keep his name out of it because the reason I think he dmíed me is because he doesnít want to deal with other peopleís differing expert opinions. Heís mentioned something about the scratch marks and it looks like it was sanded by sand paper, I thought theyíre leftover hone marks. But could be possible that the shop I got it from did it. When you say ďfuckyĒ, what exactly do you mean? Can you provide some specifics? Like I said before, itís perfectly smooth and he said use crocus cloth to polish. I think Iím comfortable with that solution since no one can actually say with sufficient argument that this bearing race is bad. Thanks all for your time.
OK. That would have been my thought too. By "fucky," I guess I meant exactly what you did... it doesn't look right. Maybe not definitively bad right off the bat.

Is it OK? Maybe. I don't have enough expertise on this part of an H-D to speak, so I thought I'd try to learn something, as you did. I just didn't want you to clam up on the answer when there are others who are learning vicariously. (ie me.)

Thank you, and your anonymous teacher, and the rest of you old guys for chiming in.
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Old 02-28-2020, 09:01 AM   #16
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Default Re: Right Case bearing race 64 panhead

Hey we're not old guys. We're vintage.
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Old 02-28-2020, 11:13 AM   #17
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Default Re: Right Case bearing race 64 panhead

If there is a tiny ridge between where the rollers ride on part of the race but not the other, it is out of round. Easy to test with a scribe or razor. Just feel for ridges on the race with a any sharp tool(fingernail too dull here). No dial bore gauge needed. If it is perfectly smooth and no ridges anywhere, just use new rollers the same size and go. Small pits will just hold oil. The flat long roller rolls right over those tiny pits. Why was this engine even taken apart? Was the bottom end still quiet? Crack the case? Heat the case half to 250F and the race practically falls out under it's own weight. You used the phrase "gave me the answer I was looking for", which raises my eyebrows a bit...
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Old 02-28-2020, 07:02 PM   #18
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Default Re: Right Case bearing race 64 panhead

Quote:
Originally Posted by joe49 View Post
Hey we're not old guys. We're vintage.
Antique guys, in all senses of the words.
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Old 03-11-2020, 05:17 PM   #19
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Default Re: Right Case bearing race 64 panhead

another vote for line lap then start the measurement/evaluation process.

To me it looks as that race has had a once over lightly with some sort of sand paper or emery cloth... I see fresh scratches where the rollers roll.

get a new or otherwise perfect sprocket bearing set, assemble the case halves, lightly lap a few rounds just to get a marking and look carefully at any wear pattern while lapping. then lap just enough to get a full lapped surface all along the race. clean the race and then clean it again. measure for out of round and taper. I take close to a dozen measurements while checking a lapped race like yours.

measure the pinion shaft you plan to use to check roundness, taper and diameter on the roller surface also.

if both are round and without taper, what is the difference in measurements?
difference minus 0.001" (give or take 0.0002") then divide by two will give you the roller diameter needed.
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