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Old 11-04-2010, 08:03 PM   #1
drumrooster
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Default Bsa motor id??

Need to know what year this motor is

bsa a65ha 5432 -y

i"m thinkin 1970 650?? Whats the y for??

.
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Old 11-04-2010, 09:02 PM   #2
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Default Re: Bsa motor id??,,got a frame/??

67 Hornet. The "Y" or "dash Y" is the subject of a never ending debate, and if you ever figure it out..............well then you forget after a couple years.
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Old 11-04-2010, 09:28 PM   #3
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Default Re: Bsa motor id??

Yup, '67 Hornet. There were no Hornets in 1970. I'll leave the debate alone.
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Old 11-05-2010, 07:38 AM   #4
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Default Re: Bsa motor id??

650 right..
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Old 11-05-2010, 08:11 AM   #5
M.O.Ther
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Default Re: Bsa motor id??

yes, 650cc, or as some prefer to call it, 40 cubic inches.
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Old 11-05-2010, 10:14 AM   #6
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Default Re: Bsa motor id??

Got my curiosity up so I searched my 68 Spitfire A65SA1**54

It comes up as a 67, but it's titled as a 68. I often wondered about the monoblocs and even saw a pic of the day it was first bought sporting the monoblocs.
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Old 11-05-2010, 11:42 AM   #7
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Default Re: Bsa motor id??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky59 View Post
Got my curiosity up so I searched my 68 Spitfire A65SA1**54

It comes up as a 67, but it's titled as a 68. I often wondered about the monoblocs and even saw a pic of the day it was first bought sporting the monoblocs.
The vin's and titles had some mismatch mainly due to the title being issued from the import or sale of the bike at the sales dept not the actual production date. Dragon may have better info than me for this.
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Old 11-05-2010, 12:08 PM   #8
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Default Re: Bsa motor id??

Quote:
Originally Posted by CB550 Matt View Post
The vin's and titles had some mismatch mainly due to the title being issued from the import or sale of the bike at the sales dept not the actual production date. Dragon may have better info than me for this.
Makes sense Matt

I never thought it could be a 67 before today because it also came with the DLS front brake. Maybe it was one of the last 67s built. Not that it matters because I never plan on restoring it.
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Old 11-05-2010, 10:24 PM   #9
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Default Re: Bsa motor id??

I will second the debate over the Y suffix. The fact is , your engine could have been built and/ or sold any time between 1967 and 1970. The original intent was to for 1967 models to have an A designation after the model, 1968 was B and 1969 was C. In 1970 they converted over to the U.S. dot approved numbering system with the TWO letters after the model code designating the month and year of manufacture. But.....for some unexplained reason, bikes with the 1967 numbers continued to show up until 1970, peppered in with the bikes with the correct years numbers. I was helping out at a BSA shop in the 1960`s, and as I remember, these bikes were always considered to be 'leftovers' from a slow 1967 sales year, and were sold at a substantial discount by the dealers. The unexplained part, is that many of these 'leftover' models came thru with all of the updates for the current model year, including the raised numbers on the engine case and the larger and repositioned base flange studs. I still have not quite figured this out. In 1970 I bought a brand new blue 1970 Lightning, with the large stud case, the clutch actuator in the outer timing cover, twin horns, tail light extension, condensors mounted under seat, TLS front brake...all 1970 features.but it had A65LA 1967 numbers, and I bought it for $1025.00 brand new when the properly numbered 1970 Lightnings were selling for $1495.00. If your engine has the 1969 or 1970 updates, it was probably built in a later year than 1967. It is also correct that Hornets were not sold in the 1970 model year, and a late 68 or 69 would have been the only ones available with a tls front brake.Hope this helps, regards,Bob
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Old 11-05-2010, 11:04 PM   #10
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Default Re: Bsa motor id??

Hornets: Spitfire Hornets in '64 and '65, Hornets in '66 and '67. After that they were replaced in the line by the Firebird Scramblers. As for the DLS brake, if it's a '68 style (cable enters low from the rear) it's possible it's a really late production model. If the brake is a '69-'70 style (cable runs parallel to the forks) then someone swapped it out.

As for the Spitfire, the '66 had the Amal GP carb. Great for racing but no one could get it to idle well. The '67 Spitfire was the introduction of the concentric. Triumph and the other BSA models followed later in the year or in some cases with the '68 models. Doesn't mean a pair of monoblocks couldn't have snuck onto a Spitfire at the factory or at the dealer before the bike was delivered. Do you remember if they were the "handed" monoblocks, (one 389 and one 689, with the float chambers on opposite sides?) Those were standard on the '66 and '67 Lightnings and Hornets.

Also it was common in some places to title a bike in the year is was first sold, rather than the model year. I have an very early '57 Triumph that's always been titled as a '56. And sometimes bikes didn't sell right away, so a '67 could still be on the showroom floor come Spring '68.
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Old 11-06-2010, 09:12 AM   #11
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Default Re: Bsa motor id??

Quote:
Originally Posted by M.O.Ther View Post
Hornets: Spitfire Hornets in '64 and '65, Hornets in '66 and '67. After that they were replaced in the line by the Firebird Scramblers. As for the DLS brake, if it's a '68 style (cable enters low from the rear) it's possible it's a really late production model. If the brake is a '69-'70 style (cable runs parallel to the forks) then someone swapped it out.

As for the Spitfire, the '66 had the Amal GP carb. Great for racing but no one could get it to idle well. The '67 Spitfire was the introduction of the concentric. Triumph and the other BSA models followed later in the year or in some cases with the '68 models. Doesn't mean a pair of monoblocks couldn't have snuck onto a Spitfire at the factory or at the dealer before the bike was delivered. Do you remember if they were the "handed" monoblocks, (one 389 and one 689, with the float chambers on opposite sides?) Those were standard on the '66 and '67 Lightnings and Hornets.

Also it was common in some places to title a bike in the year is was first sold, rather than the model year. I have an very early '57 Triumph that's always been titled as a '56. And sometimes bikes didn't sell right away, so a '67 could still be on the showroom floor come Spring '68.
Thanks

It does have the left and right monoblocs and also the early backing plate with cable at the less than desirable angle. I picked up a later plate with the straight pull cable for it but never got to it yet. The bike is buried behind junk now and I can't get to it easily. I got it from a young guy who's deceased father bought new. I saw the pics of the day it was bought with the monoblocs on but have also wondered if maybe the dealer didn't swap them on.
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Old 08-12-2012, 08:20 PM   #12
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Default Re: Bsa motor id??

Lucky59 wrote;
Quote:
Got my curiosity up so I searched my 68 Spitfire A65SA1**54

It comes up as a 67, but it's titled as a 68.
Hi guys, I have done much work on this Y suffix drama on another board.
I believe we have narrowed it down to 3 distinct groupings.
The first being the 1967 Dash Y bikes of 1967.
The second is a batch of about 1000 Spitfires that we have referred to as Hybrids. They are all MkIV's but with 1967 numbers.
The last is a group of bikes that seems to have been interspersed with the 'normal' models during the period May 1969 to April 1970.
There are many of them, about 10% of the production run.

From Lucky's description of his bike I am certain it is a Hybrid Spitfire.
It will have features that were not available in 1967, like the plastic transmission dipstick and the cast alternator support.
Basically many engine castings changed for the 1968 season, his bike will have all of them.

Of the first grouping, the Dash Y bikes. By far the majority of the 1967 season bikes would have bore the suffix on the engine only.
It was to differentiate the motors that had the newer 3 pipe oil manifold fitted.
The rocker feed came from the engine itself on those models. I have seen a BSA publication referring to that.

The last grouping were all true to either the 1969 or 1970 model year as Bob has mentioned.
They were made exactly as the other bikes on the line but for whatever reason were stamped with 1967 style numbers on both engine AND FRAME.

I was surprised to see mention of the discounted price, I find that most interesting and would be keen to hear more from Bob about his bike.
It may go a long way to answering why those bikes were produced.
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