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Shovelhead pushrods

12K views 41 replies 8 participants last post by  46international 
#1 · (Edited)
I'm trying to get my '76 shovel to start easier, and after all the normal stuff to check has been done I am down to adjusting the valves.
The thing is about this motor is that I did not build it so I don't know what parts are in it. What I do know is it has S&S cases and heads. I have no idea what cam, lifters, pushrods or anything about it. Before I adjust the valves I need to know if it has hyd lifters or solid lifters also what pushrods are in it as I've seen here that some pushrods have different threads so the number of turns will be different to get the pre-load on the Hyd lifters, if they are hyd.
I have a factory manual and an aftermarket manual so I have the "correct method to get this done. Problem is, how can I tell if I have hyd lifters or solid lifters without taking them out? I would think I could just see if I can compress them any, I can't, they seem solid, is this a good test?

The main problem is I can't get the pushrods out to replace the seals on the tubes. Did some looking at the internet and I see you can buy "quick remove" pushrods so I don't have to remove the rocker boxes to get them out.
Another thing is my pushrods have an adjuster that does not look like the stock ones in the book, they have much longer adjusters.
I did get one pushrod out becouse the adjuster end fell out of the pushrod when I adjusted it in all the way, the other adjusters will not come out of the pushrods so they will not come out.

My questions are,
should the adjuster come out of the pushrod itself? Is my one bad or are the other three just stuck?
is there a way to remove the pushrods without removing the rocker boxes? Other than bending them and installing the "quick install" type?
I need a good way to tell if I have hyd lifters or not. I'm thinking they are solid as I cannot push them down at all.

After more looking and reading, I'm sure I have S&S pushrods
 
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#3 ·
Cork seals can be change by slicing them at a angle that goes about 1/3 around with a razor blade. They will stick and seal up when installed. Push rods not coming out is the valve are sunk over spec in the heads, or are over length aftermarket. If you have oring seals, you can pry the push rods up to remove and reinstall them. Shorten completely, lifter on base circle, grab bottom of adjuster with long nose pliers add suitable lever under them and to the cylinder base, pry up an move fore or aft off lifter by shifting the lever. Your now a hack.
 
#4 ·
before you start taking the thing apart and adjusting the valves is a thing to do every year I would make sure the intake is sealed as they are always suspect when running - starting - idling - and backfiring - loss of power - issues show up

adjusting the valves we do it this way others have other ideas but 35 years it has not failed us -

start with the two intakes all the covers open plugs out turn the engine in the direction rotation till one intake is at full lift - adjust the other intake then reverse the procedure then do the exhaust the same way one then the other

hyd and solids are done this way - thread count is only hyd lifters
 
#5 ·
before you start taking the thing apart and adjusting the valves is a thing to do every year I would make sure the intake is sealed as they are always suspect when running - starting - idling - and backfiring - loss of power - issues show up

Excellent advice.

adjusting the valves we do it this way others have other ideas but 35 years it has not failed us -

start with the two intakes all the covers open plugs out turn the engine in the direction rotation till one intake is at full lift - adjust the other intake then reverse the procedure then do the exhaust the same way one then the other

hyd and solids are done this way - thread count is only hyd lifters
Tried and true method, so simple I thought I must be doing something wrong!
 
#6 ·
THANKS to all that have responded. I did check and reseal the intake just last week.


The lifters do not look stock, I spent some time researching and the "pocket" that the pushrod fits into is well below the top of the lifter housing, the stock hyd lifters look like they all extend above the lifter housing, That and the fact that the pushrods look exactly like the S&S ones that come in the "solid conversion " kit, I'm going to say they are solid.

My problem is now, since the front exhaust pushrod is broken (adjusting end comes out of the tube) I have to get a new pushrod in there. I have seen the "quickie" pushrods that can be installed without taking the rocker boxes off but I have not seen them for solid lifter shovelhead motors.

I did see somewhere on here that I may be able to get the pushrods in and out by removing the lifter housings, is this true?

What are the chances I can get the seals in place by working them over the top and bottom ends of the shortened pushrods? And cork seals are in it now, can I replace them with o ring type or do I have to stay with the cork?
 
#9 ·
I would think so also, but mine are just a little too long to get out.

Others have said this means my valves are recessed in the head. Hard to believe that all of them are recessed that far. and this bike was built years ago but only ridden about 4000 miles. Everything I have looked at supports that. And has S&S heads that I would think would have been installed at that time. I know I'm assuming a lot.

One other thing, when looking for pushrods, I see that they are different lengths about 10 or 20 thousands different, for taller jugs. how do I measure them? I'm not talking about the different length for front exhaust, rear exhaust and the intakes.
 
#10 ·
You should probably be aware S&S sells three types of pushrod.

There are solids. These are not adjustable.
There are adjustables. These are, unsurprisingly, adjustable. Useful for taller jugs, as you mention... strokers.
There are also Quickee pushrods. Quickees collapse enough to remove the pushrods with everything else in situ.

Sounds like you have adjustables, but you want Quickees.
 
#11 ·
YES, I have what looks like S&S adjustables and would like to buy the quickie style, I see them on J&P's website but they say "only for use with S&S tappets and tappet boxes. Problem is that it LOOKS like I have S&S pushrods so I guess I have S&S tappets but the pushrods do not have any name on them, so not sure.

Some other places I have seen adjustable pushrods that are for different height jugs, not knowing what I have, I was wondering where to measure the pushrods I have so I would know what to buy if I go this other route.
 
#13 ·
Here they are.
Nothing says S&S on them, I could order the S&S quickie style but they say they ONLY fit S&S tappets and tappet boxes. So it would be nice if I could ID these as S&S or not. More photos coming and you will see that There is no flat spot in the sides of the tappets, you know the flat area that goes toward each other to let oil go inside the Hyd tappet, so these must not be stock Hyd tappets with a solid adapter.
You will also see that one pushrod has the end that has the adjustable end that came off, That is the troublesome front exhaust. you will also see that the bad one is a little longer than the other "good" one, the good one is from the front intake
 

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#14 ·
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More photos that show the parts, I guess I would like to know if these are S&S parts, If they are I can just order the S&S quickie pushrods.
Oh, I removed the intake pushrod by removing the tappet box, I guess I could get it back together the same way. May be a little tricky but I think I could do it.
Any thoughts?
 
#15 ·
Your this far pull the cam and see what you have. I hate this shit, you really have to go looking and get it right. No telling what the last guy in there did or his abilities. When it was still together and just not starting easy did you do a compression test? Or leak down?
 
#19 ·
Right about that, EVERYTHING I do with this bike I first have to figure out what was done before and what parts were used, but that's half the fun right?
No on the compression test and yes I'm kicking myself for that but I wanted to adjust the valves anyway and then I found the broken pushrod. so this is where I'm at.
 
#16 ·
its a sifton kit my guess - and it will be china made
 
#21 ·
guess I could, I have some days off this week so the plan is to take my parts to the local bike shop and see if they can I.D. them. I looked at some Sifton stuff and did not see the solid lifter that is like what I have. They don't have a website, I guess they are still in business, J&P sells their stuff.

Anyone have thoughts about if these are Hyd lifter tappets with some brand of "solid" kit installed or are they just a solid style lifter? Like I said they do not have the flat area that would line up with the oil hole in the tappet box.
 
#22 ·
Sifton as we know it is no longer in business. V-twin bought the rights to the name and now it's offshore stuff of not-so-awesome quality.

Your lifters are neither solid conversions nor solids...they're a straight hydro unit so far as I can tell.
 
#23 ·
no they are solid, if you look at the photos, you will see the one shot with the end/cap removed from the body, That cap is just a plug with an o-ring. Nothing inside, only one part. And the bottom of the lifter body is open to the roller so any oil that gets inside the body would just fall out the bottom.

I do wish I could figure out what brand they are. so thanks for the help.
 
#24 ·
#25 ·
Thanks for looking into this.

At first, I thought they WERE S&S as the style of the pushrod adjustment looks just the same. BUT all of the S&S solid lifter adapters have a tall post extending to the height that a stock Hyd lifter would. In effect, making the complete (now solid) tappet the same height as the stock one. My tappets have just the short plug in them making them much shorter than the stock Hyd tappets or the S&S converted ones, converted to solid, that is.

I can solve all of this by just buying a complete set of S&S solid converting kit. But then I would also have to but a set of stock style tappet housings, you know the outer lifter shell, with the roller. and as you know, that adds up.
 
#26 ·
® Adjustable Pushrod Kits For 1966-'84 HD® Big Twin With Solid Lifter Adapters">

see the black "adapters", they go into the stock tappet shells after removing the hyd unit. If you look at my lifter and see the much shorter "adapter" you can tell that these S&S pushrods would be way too short.

I have not seen any other brand of solid tappet or tappet adapter that is short like mine.
 
#27 ·
See how short the plug/cap is on my tappet? Now maybe my outer tappet shell is longer than a stoc one making up the difference. But I don't think so as you can see in the photo of the tappet box has a tappet in it and that one is "up" all the way and it does not come close to sticking up higher that the top edge of the tappet bot like stock ones do.

So my tappet is too short.... that's what she said.
 
#29 ·
i would think they might be an India lifters made in a garbage dump using a copper pot they cook in

you have an open hole in the bottom so the oil drains out -- what
 
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