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Old 01-09-2012, 05:25 PM   #1
Chevota
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Default Wiring Issues

Ok... Got a basket case recently, but combined with the parts I've been acquiring for the last year or more, I can put most of this triumph together. Its a 1966 TR6. What I want to do right now is just make sure the motor will run. I took the covers off and looked inside all the caps I could and this thing looks good to go, but I would like to fire it up before I tear it down for paint.

As far as the motor wiring, nothing is really connected. Still running points, have two 12V coils, and a Boyer power unit. The coils have the plug wires attached and plugs are in the heads. There is wiring coming from below the cases from the stator. I think the guy that had it before was going to redo the wiring, but this is my dilemma... It seems like I'm missing something. Shouldn't I have a capacitor or does the boyer unit act as one? Also, I've heard on JJ that Boyer's like a 12V battery. I have no problem running one, but I need someone to give me the skinny on what I need. Wiring is my weakness. I'll wrench on something all day, but wiring throws me off every time. Any info would be really helpful. Thanks.
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Old 01-09-2012, 06:02 PM   #2
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Default Re: Wiring Issues

You're confusing a Boyer ignition with a Boyer charge unit, if yoiu still have points in it then you don't have a Boyer ignition, you likely have a Boyer charge unit, also know as a "battery eliminator". So you don't necessarly need a battery or a capacitor, but for trouble shooting and getting a motor running it always best to connect a battery to the system.
Just remember when connecting a battery red wires are positive and other colored wires are negative.
Coming out of the charge unit there should be 2 yellow wires going into the stator in the engine and a red and black wire, just disconnect those and hook a battery up positive to the red and negative to the black, then attempt to fire it up.
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Old 01-09-2012, 06:10 PM   #3
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Default Re: Wiring Issues

Yeah, Boyers like batteries, they don't work too well without a minimum of about 11.5vdc...especially the older units the newer ones are not as voltage dependent. I suggest you stick with points...yep, I'm a cave man and proud of it. If you don't have a battery there needs to be a capacitor in the system somewhere...even if its inside the regulator/rectifier like many (but not all) of the Sparx units. If you're going to use a battery then you don't need the capacitor. Tony may be on to something too...there are lotsa wiring diagrams and threads on the board, check 'em out, you'll be on the road in no time.
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Old 01-10-2012, 08:35 AM   #4
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Default Re: Wiring Issues

Very good replies...you said wiring is your weakness. Since I am ignorant, I feel qualified to help out- Just remember this: Your electrical system only does three things with electricity:
1-Makes power- Stator spins producing current and is "Rectified=rectifier" which changes the AC to DC for storage. Not to be confused with the "Regulator" which regulates the amount of juice (volts) that are sent into the battery for storage so you don't boil over the battery with current when racing down the road at 5000-7000RPMs.
2-Stores power-Your battery. Sounds simple, but like was mentioned earlier, your Boyer will like/need/required 12 Volts for good/better starting. Don't be fooled by "good spark". I had great spark on a bike that would spark blue and hooked in a small scooter battery to store 12 Volts at start up and BAM- Every time a start up. If not using a battery, you are depending on a capacitor/battery eliminator to store power from one revolution and hope it is enough. This is why a poor starting bike will always bump start easier than kicking. Bottom line- add a battery for dependable spark at start up.
3-Uses power- This is all the spaghetti that scares people, but everything after the battery is using the power somehow.

That is how you can tell the difference in the "Boyer" units like was mentioned here. If the box is an ignition system...it is "using power" and is connected to your system AFTER the battery. If it is before...it must be preparing the current by "regulating" or "rectifying".
Also, he is dead on...if you have points then your electronic ignition is not hooked up. Electronic ignition is just that...sending an electronic impulse telling your bike when to fire the spark. Points are doing this manually so they don't "speak" to the Boyer box.
I hope this helps, but if I am wrong someone will jump an and correct.
Scott
http://66.154.78.216/forum/showthread.php?t=93515
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Old 01-10-2012, 12:33 PM   #5
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Default Re: Wiring Issues

Thanks to Tony, Goldy, and Scott. I appreciate all the feedback. Looks like I might (and I really mean MIGHT) have an understanding of whats going on with the wiring. Going to alligator clip it together just to see if I can get it to fire. Have to plumb the oil lines first though so it may be a little bit. Thanks for helping me out.
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Old 01-10-2012, 03:38 PM   #6
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Default Re: Wiring Issues

Just had to try to see if it at least had spark after I hooked it up ..... IT DOES!! Thanks dudes. I really appreciate it!
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Old 01-10-2012, 07:42 PM   #7
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Default Re: Wiring Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevota View Post
Just had to try to see if it at least had spark after I hooked it up ..... IT DOES!! Thanks dudes. I really appreciate it!
Very good...now you have to find a new weakness.
Scott
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Old 01-12-2012, 05:24 PM   #8
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Default Re: Wiring Issues

OK.... problems again. Bike won't fire. Checked wiring ... Didn't change anything from when I had spark, and cant get this thing to even think about starting. Checked timing, reset points gap. I took out a plug and put the wire back on it to see if I could even get spark again and I can't even get that. I tried wiring for positive ground and that didn't help either. One question when running points .... looks like everything is very close to touching inside the points cover... something grounding out possibly? Do I have bad coils or is the Boyer unit bad? I checked the Amal 930 that's on right now and jets look good. I sprayed fuel in there and I kicked numerous times with no results. Should I just break down and buy a Boyer electronic ignition with new coils?
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Old 01-12-2012, 06:05 PM   #9
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Default Re: Wiring Issues

It's unlikely that both coils being bad at the same time, or even that both sets of points are dirty at the same time, but it wouldn't hurt to check. Probably something going on with the wiring or the boyer regulator....check your connections?
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Old 01-12-2012, 06:23 PM   #10
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Default Re: Wiring Issues

Yea I checked everything, but like I said before I suck at wiring. You guys with EI, is it worth it? I should get a spark when kicking and have the plug touching the motor right? Thanks FSXlowrider, I'll check it out
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Old 01-12-2012, 07:03 PM   #11
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Default Re: Wiring Issues

Here is what I reccommend...read the attached (NEG ground) wiring diagram and learn it. Stop trying to get the bike running and enjoy learning how to wire a bike. There is enough information in THIS thread to wire a bike.

Study the diagram. Study the picture I have attached so that you know what each part looks like and DOES. Re-read the post I sent earlier and study it. You will see how easy it is to grasp and then follow basic wiring principles like good ground and no shorts and you will wire your bike fine AND understand it for good.

Hint: Don't wire the bike until you can free hand draw/write down a wiring diagram for your bike. that means you understand it. This is how I learned.

If all else fails, PM me and I will give you my phone number.

Scott
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Old 01-12-2012, 08:08 PM   #12
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Default Re: Wiring Issues

I appreciate the schematic and information Scott, but I am running points, dual 12V coils, and just a boyer power unit, not E.I. I also don't have a tymp. That schematic is just very different from what I have. The diagram below seems to be a little closer to my situation. I have it wired like this at the moment and have no luck. Let me know if you see a problem with this setup in what I currently have. (Instead of the Mity Max is the Boyer)
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Old 01-12-2012, 08:40 PM   #13
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Default Re: Wiring Issues

You are right about the points...yours is different. Since you mentioned buying a Boyer I wanted you to see the components and how easy is is to re-do the entire thing. Points are easy too, just more fiddling.

Try one of these to bounce your system/plan off and good luck.

Scott
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Old 01-12-2012, 10:16 PM   #14
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Default Re: Wiring Issues

FYI
if you get tire of tinkering with the points and decide to switch it for an electronic ignition look at the Pazon ignition, it is a much better ignition than the Boyer E/I and it has a 7 year warranty insted of a 1 year like the Boyer, we have had many of the new Boyer Mark IV's fail because of A/C voltage leakage. and we have installed about 25 Pazon's and none have ever failed.
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Old 01-12-2012, 10:32 PM   #15
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Default Re: Wiring Issues

Cool. Thanks Tony. Going to try it all over again tomorrow, but after that I might break down and go Electronic. Just to make sure, I need 2 6V coils for that right?
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Old 01-13-2012, 09:27 AM   #16
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Default Re: Wiring Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevota View Post
Cool. Thanks Tony. Going to try it all over again tomorrow, but after that I might break down and go Electronic. Just to make sure, I need 2 6V coils for that right?
No, that's one of the things better about the Pazon, it works fine using one dual lead 12 volt coil or even 2 single 12 volt coils.
Boyer tried to correct their ignitions to work with a 12 volt coil and the ended up screwing the Boyer Mark IV up.
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Old 01-13-2012, 11:18 AM   #17
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Default Re: Wiring Issues

Kind of off topic but can I run a Pazon without coils or a battery? Want to make it look clean, and from what I read on the board, a Pazon makes kickstarting a bit easier than a Boyer. Is that right? Oh yeah, it's a Unit.
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Old 01-13-2012, 08:33 PM   #18
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Default Re: Wiring Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALS View Post
Kind of off topic but can I run a Pazon without coils or a battery? Want to make it look clean, and from what I read on the board, a Pazon makes kickstarting a bit easier than a Boyer. Is that right? Oh yeah, it's a Unit.
gotta have a coil or the Pazon can't tell anything to spark the plugs, but you don't need a battery or a Pazon when they are set it up right. most of the custom bikes we build don't have a battery.

I sell a complete "no battery wiring kit" , P/M me if you want more info.
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Old 01-14-2012, 07:04 AM   #19
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Default Re: Wiring Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALS View Post
Kind of off topic but can I run a Pazon without coils or a battery? Want to make it look clean, and from what I read on the board, a Pazon makes kickstarting a bit easier than a Boyer. Is that right? Oh yeah, it's a Unit.
ALS~
Take a look at the wiring diagrams listed here. Regardless of points, electronic, 12V, 6V, POS/NEG ground....they all will need a coil.

Scott
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Old 01-15-2012, 08:23 AM   #20
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Default Re: Wiring Issues

Yeah, dumb question, guess you're right, trying to hide the coil(s) on a bobber project, seems like is so much easier with a pre-unit due to the plug wires coming out of the mag (I hate the look of a joe hunt).
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