Is it the painters job or am I just a dumbass? - The Jockey Journal Board

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Old 07-13-2013, 08:56 PM   #1
chopperkid13
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Default Is it the painters job or am I just a dumbass?

I have never had anything professionally painted in my life. So I got a brand new gas tank, dropped it off at my painter, gave him money and that's the story. I have heard that I should have even a brand new tank sealed anyway. I picked up the tank from the painter last night, took it home, flushed it out with some WD to get any dust and left over flake out of it. Put the new petcock in with some plumbers tape on the threads. Filled the tank with gas and went for a ride.

I had even stopped at my local Harley repair shop and asked him about sealing the tank. The guy has never steered me wrong and he said if the tank is new and was pressure tested, don't sweat it. He talked me out of it saying eventually the shit breaks down and makes a mess in the tank.

So today after burning through my first tank of gas, I take the cap off and the paint around the filler lifted right off. My brand new $1,200 paint job. Luckily it has not made it's way down the filled onto the tank it's self. But if I ignore it, it's eventually (within a week I'm sure) going to destroy the whole tank. For a $1,200 paint job on just a tank, should the painter have sealed it? or did I just fuck myself for having not known better? Any suggestions on ways to keep it from getting worse?
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Old 07-13-2013, 09:15 PM   #2
bobscogin
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Default Re: Is it the painters job or am I just a dumbass?

I've always sealed the interior of my tanks before I paint them. Whether or not it was sealed has little to do with the paint coming off around the filler, however. That's a function of the cap sealing correctly, the type of paint, the prep work, etc. That said, it eventually happens to most paint jobs, even if you overpay.

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Old 07-13-2013, 09:22 PM   #3
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Default Re: Is it the painters job or am I just a dumbass?

was it painted all the way to the lip? you can try sealing it with clear nail polish,,,was the clear even cured?
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Old 07-13-2013, 09:26 PM   #4
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Default Re: Is it the painters job or am I just a dumbass?

My next tank will be powder coated.

Gasoline gets under paint via the delicate primer and lifts it.

My late wife preferred primer-sealer (which unlike primer isn't porous to moisture) but I don't see a point in using paint on a fuel tank for anything but restoration.

You could try aircraft zinc chromate primer, which isn't bothered by fuel and is inside every "wet wing" fighter aircraft fuel tank.

I'm not a painter, I just despise delicate coatings.
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Old 07-14-2013, 01:55 AM   #5
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Default Re: Is it the painters job or am I just a dumbass?

Why seal it if it hasn't got any leaks. And if it does have leaks, fix 'em before paint.
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Old 07-14-2013, 02:02 AM   #6
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Default Re: Is it the painters job or am I just a dumbass?

Not to hijcack, but here is my recent experience:

I just had a brand new narrow sporty tank powder coated. I went to have it sealed afterwards and realized that I had not cleaned the inside before dropping it off to powder. Big mistake. I took it to a local guy that did a previous sealer and he put a lot of time into cleaning it out. I would have done it but I was really slammed for time so It was better to just drop it off. He got it cleaned and sealed and I'm happy.

For those looking to powdercoat your tank, make sure you clean it out and seal it AFTERWARDS! CHOPPERKID, good luck man.
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Old 07-14-2013, 02:06 AM   #7
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Default Re: Is it the painters job or am I just a dumbass?

Bobscogin, It was all HOK products as far as I know. I saw the prep and the bare tank was sanded all the way up to where the rubber in the cap meets the tank.

Jock E, the clear was cured. It was cleared about 3 weeks ago. The tank was sprayed with no cap on it and the filler was taped off when the flake was laid, but not the candy or clear. So the paint covered the whole filler.

Clear nail polish will hold up to gas?

If so, I'll give it a try. The paint is lifting around the outside of the filler bung. Luckily right now it is covered by the skirt of the gas cap, but if I don't do something, it's going to continue to get gas under it over time and lift more and more paint.
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Old 07-14-2013, 02:45 AM   #8
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Default Re: Is it the painters job or am I just a dumbass?

theres chrome rings that go around the filler hole that are supposed to be for that reason of saving paint ,it might have a sealer under it... ...what they are called god only knows but theyve been around over 15 yrs .
probably called chrome paint savers
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Old 07-14-2013, 02:48 AM   #9
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Default Re: Is it the painters job or am I just a dumbass?

IMO, it is the painter's responsibility to seal the edge of that paint on the filler neck. I typically mask off the top of the filler neck down about 1/8" to 1/4"below the top of the filler. When the job is completed, I seal that paint edge with 2 or 3 coats of catalyzed clearcoat using an artist's brush or a spread of gas-resistant Seal-All (product in a tube).

Regarding sealing the inside of new tanks... I have many custom-painting clients want them done and I accommodate them by having a local radiator shop clean and seal the tank with a very high-quality commercial tank-lining product.

www.flamethrowercustoms.blogspot.com
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Old 07-14-2013, 02:54 AM   #10
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Default Re: Is it the painters job or am I just a dumbass?

The top of your filler neck should be bare steel, thats where the cap rubber seats. If it's painted, the fuel will get under the paint before it even gets to the rubber cap seal. Bummer.
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Old 07-14-2013, 05:32 AM   #11
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Default Re: Is it the painters job or am I just a dumbass?

Show us a pic of what has happened. I also want to see what a $1200 tank job looks like. I think I'm in the wrong game. Shit!
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Old 07-14-2013, 05:58 AM   #12
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Default Re: Is it the painters job or am I just a dumbass?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlameThrower View Post
IMO, it is the painter's responsibility to seal the edge of that paint on the filler neck. I typically mask off the top of the filler neck down about 1/8" to 1/4"below the top of the filler. When the job is completed, I seal that paint edge with 2 or 3 coats of catalyzed clearcoat using an artist's brush or a spread of gas-resistant Seal-All (product in a tube).

Regarding sealing the inside of new tanks... I have many custom-painting clients want them done and I accommodate them by having a local radiator shop clean and seal the tank with a very high-quality commercial tank-lining product.

www.flamethrowercustoms.blogspot.com
www.flamethrowercustoms.com
I have also been doing this for the last 10 or 15 years, after having a few of my cheaper paint jobs go south, due to fuel intrusion. So after having a paint man who was also a rider, tell me this, I have done it, and since then, never had another paint blister on the fuel cap flange. Just remember, most clear coat is not "gas resistant" until about 30 to 45 days of cure, and that is right out of the paint suppliers mouth.
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Old 07-14-2013, 06:47 AM   #13
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Default Re: Is it the painters job or am I just a dumbass?

I had a similar problem with the fuel "wicking" sp? under the paint through the pimer (slightly exposed). This was MY fault because I used a cheap lacquer based primer along with issues I did not think about till later.
After that I use noting but PPG-DP series primers...leave the filler cap/seal sirface bare metal and seal the edge near the filler neck by hand (nail polish or something that will hold up). I rode with my sporty tank in DP-90 for 2 years ....that primer hold up REAL well.... If you thin it a little you can get it to lay down with no orange peal.... has a nice semi gloss / flat finish....
Unless the filler neck has a leak (welds), I would contact your painter and see what he says.....If he has painted more than one tank, he should be somewhat familiar with this type of problem.
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Old 07-14-2013, 07:37 AM   #14
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Default Re: Is it the painters job or am I just a dumbass?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chopperkid13 View Post
...
...
So today after burning through my first tank of gas, I take the cap off and the paint around the filler lifted right off. My brand new $1,200 paint job. Luckily it has not made it's way down the filled onto the tank it's self. But if I ignore it, it's eventually (within a week I'm sure) going to destroy the whole tank....
I dunno the prices for painters in US. 1200 bucks are quite money. If a German painter does a paintjob for me, and charges me 300 and the shit comes up after a week at any point, I bring it back to him and tell him to do his work ...
my 0,02$
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Old 07-14-2013, 07:58 AM   #15
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Default Re: Is it the painters job or am I just a dumbass?

You can not put paint to the edge of the filler neck. I know it will take a bit, but cut the paint around the neck wit a razor blade and scrape the paint off of the top of the neck. If you do not get it away from the gas contact it will destroy the whole thing. Nail polish will not seal this. I have seen countless painters paint all the way to the edge and have these results.

As for the ones who think powdercoat will solve this.... Not, Powdercoat is impact resistant, not chemical resistant. Gas will mess that up just as bad.
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Old 07-14-2013, 08:17 AM   #16
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Default Re: Is it the painters job or am I just a dumbass?

there should never be paint all the way up to the gas cap seal edge, it should be raw metal and it also should be raw metal under the petcock sealing area,

the gasoline will wick itself under and ruin a urethane paint job if there is no raw metal area around all the seal surfaces.
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Old 07-14-2013, 09:46 AM   #17
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Default Re: Is it the painters job or am I just a dumbass?

Tony"s right..I tape about 1/2 way up the lip and leave the top edge raw..but make sure u get the clear on the paint edge good to seal it..if its started lifting from gas already,,then I"d trim it with a razor blade and take it back and have the guy shoot some clear around that area,,and u may wanna look into one of those chrome gas tank saver things to put on it if its farther down and getting to the flat of the tank? if gas starts getting under the paint edge it will keep going and make a big problem..

ALWAYS seal a used tank or new if yr gonna spend $$ to get it painted..just a micro pin hole will let fumes get out under the paint and cause a big pretty bubble in ur paint job...I painted a tank that never leeked a drop once and after 2 days painted gold flake a big ass bubble came up around the weld in the front area :[..fumes..

sorry slot of this was already posted..I"m up early..
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Old 07-14-2013, 10:22 AM   #18
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Default Re: Is it the painters job or am I just a dumbass?

Just for shits and giggles.... Post pics of the issues, and the rest of the skins.... I am curious what $1,200 worth of paint buys you these days... You did say he used HOK, quality product.... And not cheap... Also ask him if he used HOK primer/surfacer as well.
What condition was the tank in prior to his receiving it? Did it require little-heavy bodywork?... Welding?...bung-petcock relocation?... This will add to the final bill...
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Old 07-14-2013, 12:00 PM   #19
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Default Re: Is it the painters job or am I just a dumbass?

Tank was BRAND NEW out of the box. Only thing done was drilled the holes for mounting. We checked the tank with compressed air for leaks, all good.





Flake put down



Graphics and candied.



Shit quality photo of it on the bike. Left side has "rising sun" panel, right side has and "endless line" Top is paneled with laced, and has the bikes name around the gas filler. It's very easy to see it all in person, I have yet to get a good photo of it.



I'll take some photos of the problem area and try to get them up here today. All the paint where the rubber from the cap sits to the inside, is all gone now. It bubbled and lifted. I cut it back with a razor to where the rubber sits on bare metal now and took the bubbling paint off so it doesn't drop in the tank. Where the paint is lifting, you can't see it with the cap on, no visible bubbles, if you take the cap off and poke the paint around the filler, you can see it moving and it's definitely separated from the tank.
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Old 07-14-2013, 12:40 PM   #20
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Default Re: Is it the painters job or am I just a dumbass?

wow! that really sux,,, hope ya get some satisfaction from the painter ...
oh !!! is that a 426 Hemi in the corner???
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