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Old 05-14-2020, 06:40 AM   #1
[JP]
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Default Panhead 18" rim offset

Hi all,
not been doing much on my Pan, but last I have done is line up the rear wheel.. and I think something is not right.

I got a WM3 rim laced to a star hub, when fitting it on the bike I was finding that the tyre centre was about 1/4 too much to the right side.
I'm using a laser level, on the photo below it shows perfectly lined up, but was not tighten up, once tight the tyre centre moves about 1/4 to the right.
now this means it's messing up my spacing with the rear fender... the tyre sits closer to the fender on the right - if the fender centred on the frame.
If I move the fender so I have equal spacing on either side of the tyre..... then the fender doesn't sit in the middle of the frame.



I looked at the manual and the manual says for a 18" rim the offset is 1/4"



So I got my wheel out and the offset is 1/2" (about 12mm).
and it then makes sense, if the offset was 1/4 that means my tyre would then be 1/4 more to the left than how it sits now.




Does anyone know the width of a harley 18" rim?
Does anyone know if my offset should be 1/4 or not on this new rim?
reason for asking is I sent the wheel back to the company and that supplied everything and laced it for me, saying I believe it's wrong and they said the WM3 rim is not as wide as the original one the manual mentions to be 1/4 so they took that in account and done 1/2 offset... and that they centred the rim to the hub.

I know the manual says rim centred, but wanted to double check all of this with someone else before deciding what to do.
As can only blame offset for the tyre to be too much to the right.


thanks!
JP
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Old 05-14-2020, 09:53 AM   #2
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Default Re: Panhead 18" rim offset

theres a thread here somewhere noting about differences on those v-twin frames regarding axle widths and slight differences
just shift your rim over with spoke adjustment.
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Old 05-14-2020, 10:46 AM   #3
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Default Re: Panhead 18" rim offset

Quote:
Originally Posted by richbob View Post
theres a thread here somewhere noting about differences on those v-twin frames regarding axle widths and slight differences
just shift your rim over with spoke adjustment.
Not a Vtwin frame though, its a VG frame, I purposely didn't go for vtwin because of quality. the guys at VG do a perfect replica and frames are made to order.



So, if I shift the rim over...won't matter? won't it matter if it's not in the centre of the hub?
I guess a 1/4 difference won't be noticeable on the ride... but still would like to find/figure why tyre going 1/4 off to the right..
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Old 05-14-2020, 02:27 PM   #4
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Default Re: Panhead 18" rim offset

shoot the vg guy an email
but your still need rim width maybe but centre hub is centre rim so its axle spacers but your dictated by chain so irregardless you have to move rim over.
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Old 05-14-2020, 04:55 PM   #5
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Default Re: Panhead 18" rim offset

Move it over to center of the bike. The 1970 and later swing arm bikes have the rear wheel offset 3/16'' to the left of the front wheel.
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Old 05-14-2020, 05:46 PM   #6
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Default Re: Panhead 18" rim offset

Quote:
Originally Posted by richbob View Post
shoot the vg guy an email
but your still need rim width maybe but centre hub is centre rim so its axle spacers but your dictated by chain so irregardless you have to move rim over.
VG guy won't be help here, I've bought the frame in September I think it was, and already drilled to fit the tank so they won't do anything.

When everything is tight, from what I remember, the chain is lined up perfectly. Just the tyre seems to be out to the right by 3/4

I could add 3/4 to the spacer on the right side to make the tyre sit in the centre... that would keep the hub centred on the rim, if that's absolutely necessary, but then the chain could be out.



Quote:
Originally Posted by joe49 View Post
Move it over to center of the bike. The 1970 and later swing arm bikes have the rear wheel offset 3/16'' to the left of the front wheel.
So you are saying here I should ask to get the rim moved over and off centre it from the hub?
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Old 05-14-2020, 06:31 PM   #7
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Default Re: Panhead 18" rim offset

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Originally Posted by [JP] View Post
So you are saying here I should ask to get the rim moved over and off centre it from the hub?
No, I said center it in your frame. 1970 was the beginning of the alt/cone motors with the primary moving out left another 1/2'' added to the 1/4'' that came in '65 the wheel was moved left I believe as a compensation for the weight shift cause by that 3/4''. Just loosen 1 flat at a time all right spokes, then tighten all left spokes 1 flat. Continue until centered. Do this with the wheel straight in chassis and axle tightened.
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Old 05-14-2020, 06:35 PM   #8
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Default Re: Panhead 18" rim offset

Quote:
Originally Posted by joe49 View Post
No, I said center it in your frame. 1970 was the beginning of the alt/cone motors with the primary moving out left another 1/2'' added to the 1/4'' that came in '65 the wheel was moved left I believe as a compensation for the weight shift cause by that 3/4''. Just loosen 1 flat at a time all right spokes, then tighten all left spokes 1 flat. Continue until centered. Do this with the wheel straight in chassis and axle tightened.
Sorry, I'm probably being really dumb here.
but if I do that, and considering the rim is now centered with the hub, by doing what you are saying, won't I be moving the rim off the hub centre? more to the left of where it is now?

EDIT: ok i think i get it, you are saying not to ask them, but to do it myself on my frame, but effectivelly i'd still be moving the rim off the centre of the hub. understood that right?
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Old 05-14-2020, 08:50 PM   #9
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Default Re: Panhead 18" rim offset

Check your offset from both sides just to see if it is centered. But understand it doesn't have to be exactly centered, the rim, spokes, and hub don't care. If the Manual said to use the brake side of the hub to check offset, than why if it's always even? Yes do it yourself on the bike axle tight. All the right spokes one flat loose, than all the left spokes one flat tight. Doing it this way and your true should remain.
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Old 05-15-2020, 01:53 AM   #10
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Default Re: Panhead 18" rim offset

yea exactly what joe said
when rim is centred in your frame tap your spokes (do it now to hear)and make sure theres a nice "ting" sound on all the spokes, job done.
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Old 05-15-2020, 02:45 AM   #11
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Default Re: Panhead 18" rim offset

Thanks gents! I'll get the wheel shipped back to me and do what you say..

kicking myself for sending it, without even thinking the rim was different from standard. thought they had done it wrong and they said send it over, if it's wrong we'll refund the postage.
dammit...

Oh well, another lesson learnt. everyday is a school day.
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Old 05-15-2020, 03:33 AM   #12
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Default Re: Panhead 18" rim offset

you only have 2 options really
you can offset sprocket with spacers(tricky with your hub maybe)
or offset rim
its standard procedure
i set up a dial gauge on the rim but a stick or something cramped to down tubes will do
so when you spin the wheel you can check for true.
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Old 05-15-2020, 03:38 AM   #13
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Default

Like this
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Old 05-15-2020, 03:41 AM   #14
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Default Re: Panhead 18" rim offset

thank you, that's exactly what I was thinking.

When I get the wheel back I'll tighten it straight on the frame, and as it's on the lift I can clamp my lathe dials and pointers to the lift and go from there, as the frame won't be moving.
or clamp it to one of the holes on the axle plate - actually thinking about it that's probably the best idea.
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Old 05-15-2020, 03:45 AM   #15
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Yea I just found rear wheel pic
and its good fun trying to get it spot on (but you will get a jump on pointer where it hits the weld on the rim edge)
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Old 05-15-2020, 04:53 AM   #16
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Default Re: Panhead 18" rim offset

I never done any wheel truing... can I do it with the tyre in place? I guess I can, but thought asking just to be sure.
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Old 05-15-2020, 08:09 AM   #17
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Default Re: Panhead 18" rim offset

when you start to TRUE the wheel, DO NOT use a dial gauge on the edge of the rim, the Tyre does NOT seat there & the lips are not true (other than on Aluminium Mag wheels that obviously don't need truing less damaged & being repaired), you must use the dial gauge on the seat on the inside of the rim where the tyre actually seats as in the below drawing,... this part of the rim is True & is where you set the gauge see the arrow in Blue
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Old 05-15-2020, 08:16 AM   #18
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Default Re: Panhead 18" rim offset

thanks! I did think that, as it's a more of a 'solid' area for an accurate measurement.
I'll take a few readings before to see how it is.
then shift it, mirroring what I 'see' before starting playing with it.

never really ventured into it before
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Old 05-15-2020, 08:52 AM   #19
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Default Re: Panhead 18" rim offset

you can do with tyre in place
but you can't be sure if spoke will protrude (the one thats wound in)
but saying that my rim the clown that did it before me let all the spokes protrude up to
5mm and i rode flat out in the summer like that in Sardinia and didn't pop my tube?
Lucky maybe?
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Old 05-15-2020, 08:59 AM   #20
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Default Re: Panhead 18" rim offset

If you just loosen and tighten evenly it should be fine. Ditto on rims not perfect and having hiccups in them. So a simple pointer will serve you fine, a dial indicator will drive you crazy sometimes. Yes you can true it with the tire on. There is a caveat, with the tire still on you will not be able to see the ends of the spokes if they are protruding after adjusting. It's often necessary to grind the ends of the spokes down even with the nipples.
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Old 05-15-2020, 09:01 AM   #21
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Default Re: Panhead 18" rim offset

Quote:
Originally Posted by richbob View Post
yea exactly what joe said
when rim is centred in your frame tap your spokes (do it now to hear)and make sure theres a nice "ting" sound on all the spokes, job done.
Yep it is music. Not thuds.
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Old 05-22-2020, 11:33 AM   #22
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Default Re: Panhead 18" rim offset

Well.... I think we are there now.
moved about 3/16 to the left off the hub.
All tighten down, axle pushed against the front of axle plates. seems to be there.

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