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Old 01-21-2020, 08:30 PM   #101
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Hammered out a seat pan and fabbed up an aluminum chain guard.
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Old 01-22-2020, 07:42 AM   #102
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Default Re: 1966 Bsa 650 on a budget

Keep it up...coming along nicely!
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Old 01-22-2020, 09:05 AM   #103
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Default Re: 1966 Bsa 650 on a budget

Your tensioner isn't going to hold up or work well even for the short time it stays together.
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Old 01-22-2020, 09:05 PM   #104
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Your tensioner isn't going to hold up or work well even for the short time it stays together.
Have you made something like this before and know from experience? Should i have made it out of different materials? Should it be a different design? You might be right but it would be cool if you were a little more specific so i know what to look for here.
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Old 01-23-2020, 04:24 AM   #105
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Default Re: 1966 Bsa 650 on a budget

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With the shock mounted topside when it compresses it creates slack on the top of the chain when the subframe pivots. Im hoping this will stop that.
The power of the engine pulls the top run of the chain straight. That's why the tensioners are on the bottom run so they have slack to work with, like here:

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Old 01-23-2020, 07:07 AM   #106
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With the shock mounted topside when it compresses it creates slack on the top of the chain when the subframe pivots. Im hoping this will stop that.
The power of the engine pulls the top run of the chain straight. That's why the tensioners are on the bottom run so they have slack to work with, like here:

But with the suspension the way it is if the engine is not under load and i hit a bump it will slack on the topside. Under load the chain should straighten out and theres enough spring travel to allow that. Maybe i will need a tensioner on the bottom as well. I have seen a few dirt bikes with a tensioner mounted on the top side and bottom side of the chain.
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Old 01-23-2020, 07:12 AM   #107
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Which way do these guys go? Picture 1 or 2?
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Old 01-23-2020, 07:28 AM   #108
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Default Re: 1966 Bsa 650 on a budget

Ok...I was trying to keep my big mouth shut, but now I can't. Mike, your tail section looks great and appears to be built with strength in mind, but had you put the pivot point for the tail directly in line and behind the engine sprocket and as close as possible to that sprocket (like the original swingarm pivot point), you might not need a chain tensioning device at all. Having said that, with the engine straining the top run of the chain, I think putting the device on the bottom run is the only way to go, but it will be compressed when engine braking as well, so you will need a really strong spring. On another note, I think teflon is indeed a great choice for the tensioner wheel material. Please don't take these comments the wrong way, I'm trying to be a "helpful arsehole", so keep up the progress, I'm sure this will turn out to be a unique machine.
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Old 01-23-2020, 07:32 AM   #109
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Default Re: 1966 Bsa 650 on a budget

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Which way do these guys go? Picture 1 or 2?
The curved one goes on the primary side to clear the primary case.
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Old 01-23-2020, 09:30 AM   #110
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Default Re: 1966 Bsa 650 on a budget

Start by having a look at this.
https://www.mcmaster.com/chain-tensioners
You should see that the manufacturers do not make pedestals. Also you will not find single pedestals, there is no substantial resistance to bending or tracking, and there is lot of force involved. Do not assume that because you saw one on line like yours that some garage guy made that it's the way to go. If it was the industrial manufacturers would make them that way.
Now lets get into using spring travel, a spring system will bounce. This will in short order break your pedestal tensioner. Elastomers work best as they self dampen.

Now that it's been mentioned your design with the bottom pivot is bad. A look at any Softail is a good example. Again just because some back yard guy did it doesn't make it the way to go.
Altering your design to put the pivot in or near alignment with the sprockets, would rid you of the need for a tensioner.
Tensioners are not usually on the driven section, unless they are solid and don't actively tension.
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Old 01-23-2020, 09:06 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by joe49 View Post
Start by having a look at this.
https://www.mcmaster.com/chain-tensioners
You should see that the manufacturers do not make pedestals. Also you will not find single pedestals, there is no substantial resistance to bending or tracking, and there is lot of force involved. Do not assume that because you saw one on line like yours that some garage guy made that it's the way to go. If it was the industrial manufacturers would make them that way.
Now lets get into using spring travel, a spring system will bounce. This will in short order break your pedestal tensioner. Elastomers work best as they self dampen.

Now that it's been mentioned your design with the bottom pivot is bad. A look at any Softail is a good example. Again just because some back yard guy did it doesn't make it the way to go.
Altering your design to put the pivot in or near alignment with the sprockets, would rid you of the need for a tensioner.
Tensioners are not usually on the driven section, unless they are solid and don't actively tension.
The ones i have seen were not custom made but they were in fact solid mount tensioners. The plus side is i only have $11 and some time in the current tensioner so its not a big deal to change it. You are probably correct that once it undergoes a lot of stress it may end up bent or broken. I might have to scrap this idea. (Sure looks cool tho)
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Old 01-23-2020, 09:14 PM   #112
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Ok...I was trying to keep my big mouth shut, but now I can't. Mike, your tail section looks great and appears to be built with strength in mind, but had you put the pivot point for the tail directly in line and behind the engine sprocket and as close as possible to that sprocket (like the original swingarm pivot point), you might not need a chain tensioning device at all. Having said that, with the engine straining the top run of the chain, I think putting the device on the bottom run is the only way to go, but it will be compressed when engine braking as well, so you will need a really strong spring. On another note, I think teflon is indeed a great choice for the tensioner wheel material. Please don't take these comments the wrong way, I'm trying to be a "helpful arsehole", so keep up the progress, I'm sure this will turn out to be a unique machine.
The pivot point is only about a couple inch or so off from the original swing arm location and with the shock off lifting the rear of the frame it doesnt seem to move the chain much. The tensioner may not be necessary. I might end up with a simple lever style tensioner on the bottom side to just eliminate chain movement. Now the real decision is to try it first or scrap the idea completely. I may drop my motor in and fire it up and rip around a bit before disassembling for paint.
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Old 01-23-2020, 11:36 PM   #113
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Default Re: 1966 Bsa 650 on a budget

Always a good idea, except I never get around to the paint.
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Old 01-24-2020, 01:47 AM   #114
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Default Re: 1966 Bsa 650 on a budget

you made a chain guard so put a teflon or whatever bar/slider in there
and a tensioner on the bottom if you need it
i have a dirt bike chain runs on top of swing arm on a slider near the pivot, theres a roller underneath the pivot and another guide near the hub.
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Old 01-24-2020, 08:32 AM   #115
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you made a chain guard so put a teflon or whatever bar/slider in there
and a tensioner on the bottom if you need it
i have a dirt bike chain runs on top of swing arm on a slider near the pivot, theres a roller underneath the pivot and another guide near the hub.
I could do that, one of my friends has a yamaha dirtbike with spring tensioners on top and bottom.
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Old 01-24-2020, 09:43 AM   #116
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Default Re: 1966 Bsa 650 on a budget

The rollers on dirt bikes are not tensioners, they are solid mount and guides to keep the chain off the frame and a slider wrapped around the front of the swing arm to protect the swing arm from the chain.
They also are so positioned as to keep some slack out of the chain thru it's range of travel. This positioning is some thing you could try with a solid mount guide.
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Old 01-24-2020, 04:30 PM   #117
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Im going too keep moving forward with it and give it a shot and see what happens. Im confident anything that breaks i can fix. If i need to change it i will likely go with solid mount dirtbike stuff. Its definitely an easy fix if i dont like it anyway. But i want to run this thing before tear down for paint anyway. It may end up a rigid by the time this is all done but im learning a lot with this build and most things are one step forward two steps back.
On a side note, i appreciate any opinions or criticism. It is always good to have someone make me think twice about what im doing. Its nice to hear "hell yeah that looks good" but i wont learn anything from that.
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Old 01-24-2020, 04:34 PM   #118
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Headlight mount and ears I fabbed today. Its 304 stainless because someone bought all of our steel. +1 for colorful welds but i would have rather used steel since they will be painted anyway. Except the brass bits. Those will be taped off and cleared.
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Old 01-24-2020, 04:38 PM   #119
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Heres a rough roller so far. I wont be using those bars but most everything else is what ill use. Ended up with a trailer leaf spring to mount the seat and it works very well. Also fabbed the license plate mount today
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Old 01-24-2020, 06:20 PM   #120
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Default Re: 1966 Bsa 650 on a budget

"Hell yeah that looks good."

I like that the headlight mounts have a profile somewhat similar to the stock BSA ones. Nice detail for the in crowd to admire.
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