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Old 06-20-2019, 04:34 PM   #1
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Default 1951 Panhead build thread

Hi all.
As I had explained on a previous thread, the good old 51 Panhead survivor long chop is no more.
Roller been sold and I kept all the drive train.

The first part of the build turned up today! and what a beauty!

It's a VG 1951 replica frame. Made in Germany by VG motorcycles they are hand built to your spec. so you say 1951 and they make it with all the bits it should have had.
They hold the original molds so even the casting has numbers on it.

So.. here's the start of the build. the frame!









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Old 06-20-2019, 05:19 PM   #2
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

Nice frame, looking forward to the build.

What's the plans for this one?
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Old 06-20-2019, 05:20 PM   #3
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

That's a great looking frame man!
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Old 06-21-2019, 10:43 AM   #4
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by HD48FL View Post
Nice frame, looking forward to the build.

What's the plans for this one?
Well... one thing I know for sure. It will have a K&Q.

When I told my little girl that the long chop was going and I'd build a new one first thing she said was "but are you putting 2 seats so I can go?"

so there. definitely a K&Q.
the rest... well... will probably look the same as all other bikes. They all look the same these days, different colours, different shape sissy bars, whatever..
they are all "rad man", "awesome", "wow great build man"

but they all look exactly the same.
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Old 06-21-2019, 04:21 PM   #5
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

Will it be longer than stock?
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Old 06-22-2019, 01:44 AM   #6
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Haha no my friend... It will be stock. Stock frame.
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Old 06-26-2019, 07:20 PM   #7
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

“They all look the same these days”
You have to break through that kinda thinking man!
Brain to the grind stone!
Nice start....
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Old 06-26-2019, 08:44 PM   #8
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

No, I think it's *nose* to the grindstone, *back* to the wall.
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Old 06-27-2019, 08:10 AM   #9
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by hammerweight View Post
“They all look the same these days”
You have to break through that kinda thinking man!
Brain to the grind stone!
Nice start....
Yeh... I know.
it's kinda hard though, because I want it classic build, so the things that can be changed, which I can make whatever way I want is like sissy bar, handlebars, risers..
the rest is all the same. Engine, tranny, wheels, brakes.. they are all the same on this style really. not much difference.

the difference will be on the lines across seat/tank/handlebars. that's the area that usually does it for me on a bike. it's where it flows or not.
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Old 06-28-2019, 02:49 AM   #10
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

Please dont Terd style the sissy...
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Old 06-28-2019, 10:37 AM   #11
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

JP, pardon my ignorance please. In your third pic: what function is/was served by the two small pieces of strap stuck to the front downtubes?
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Old 06-28-2019, 11:44 AM   #12
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

Quote:
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JP, pardon my ignorance please. In your third pic: what function is/was served by the two small pieces of strap stuck to the front downtubes?
From what I've been told 1951 frames had those tabs there as they had a bracket for a horn.
I'm not sure if I should leave it or not.... if they actually had this then I'll leave it, but if not I'm taking it off.
but these guys at VG build them to be exactly like they'd have come out of factory, but I haven't asked around yet to confirm for sure this thing about being for a horn.
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Old 06-28-2019, 11:45 AM   #13
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAWS View Post
Please dont Terd style the sissy...
Terd style?
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Old 06-28-2019, 05:14 PM   #14
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

Lol yes... Terd Style. Lets see who remembers.....
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Old 06-28-2019, 05:59 PM   #15
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

EeeeRECT!
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Old 07-02-2019, 06:39 AM   #16
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

I remember. Really nice frame man.
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Old 07-03-2019, 05:58 PM   #17
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by [JP] View Post
From what I've been told 1951 frames had those tabs there as they had a bracket for a horn.
I'm not sure if I should leave it or not.... if they actually had this then I'll leave it, but if not I'm taking it off.
but these guys at VG build them to be exactly like they'd have come out of factory, but I haven't asked around yet to confirm for sure this thing about being for a horn.

Yep, horn mounts. Started in '49 IIRC.
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Old 07-03-2019, 08:43 PM   #18
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geezer5481 View Post
Yep, horn mounts. Started in '49 IIRC.
Yep.
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Old 07-04-2019, 07:12 AM   #19
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

thanks for confirming! good to know it's accurate.

no progress on build. will probably only start in September. too busy this month and most of August i'm in the motherland for summer holidays.

Been thinking about colour though...
the easier is black frame. but all my bikes have a black frame.
I also find that with a black frame you don't really see the contours and shapes of all the castings, so I'm debating doing colour.

maybe a blue.. metallic blue... or a green.
but then I think, once you get a coloured frame, then your tanks options etc are not so wide. On a black frame any colour tank works...
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Old 07-04-2019, 12:32 PM   #20
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

Lots of bikes' frames are utilitarianly homely, but yours sure isn't. That being so, I say: Make it all one (garish) color!
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Old 07-04-2019, 03:45 PM   #21
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

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Been thinking about colour though...


maybe a blue.. metallic blue... or a green.

Want different ? Hot pink flake !


Im waiting for someone to weld Gummi Bears to their frame. That would be different and innovating.
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Old 07-04-2019, 05:51 PM   #22
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

Hey, given your daughter's concerns, you could do it in a My Little Pony motif.

Is My Little Pony a thing in England? Is it a thing anywhere?

Alternate suggestion: Powerpuff Girls.
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Old 07-07-2019, 12:57 PM   #23
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

yes, my little pony is a thing here... I endured taking her to the cinema last year to watch it.
In the whole cinema there was about 50 mothers and little girls...and 1 bearded guy with a little girl. got some looks!! haha

doing the bike on my little pony theme!! now she would be over the moon with that!! Woul
She calls my 68 genny the Flamesy, and the 51 Pan survivor the Sparkly... as she said it looks like the bike has sparkles from unicorns...

haha
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Old 07-07-2019, 02:46 PM   #24
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

my little pony bike
your going to draw some "maybe" unwanted attention (it won't be the Cops)
i met your frame man in fakk am zee i was very impressed.
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Old 07-07-2019, 04:59 PM   #25
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"Unwanted attention, and it won't be from the cops"

Of course not. It'll be from small girls, and those little thugs will pursue you everywhere. You'll never rest again.
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Old 07-07-2019, 05:28 PM   #26
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

I apologize. This thread has spun out into neverland.


Then again, the name Tinkebell has a nice ring. Oops, did it again.


Please post a pic of something manly so we can move on.
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Old 07-12-2019, 10:06 AM   #27
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

Do it traditional and it will look good now and still look good in 30 years. A good clean build with attention to detail is timeless.
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Old 07-12-2019, 02:42 PM   #28
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I agree...detailed builds take 30 years .....no?😉
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Old 07-14-2019, 03:17 PM   #29
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

Not real detailed but built in the late 60s with a stock frame and king/queen seat.
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Old 07-25-2019, 09:22 PM   #30
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

Your frame looks good. Ive seen their site, but havent messaged them to see what one costs shipped to the US. Id love to do a hardtail bike again. not exactly practical for what I tend to do on a bike, but would be cool to build and have for tooling around on short rides.

The details of a frame, those with an eye for detail see them, regardless of the color. I look at frames and see what period they are, whats hacked off, etc. After seeing the German frame builders site, I realized Id like a 53-54-ish period wishbone pan frame with sidecar rings,....and swingarm rear, either electric start or earlier pan swingarm type for a stock type horseshoe oil tank. Probably 1 in 100 or less would notice the details of that frame, but id see it every time I came near it and grin inside because it was mine and Id like it. It may even be a alternator shovel lower with improved pan heads, just for fun.
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Old 10-18-2019, 05:38 AM   #31
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

Another update!only been 4 months! haha

Been busy with other stuff, mainly the 68 genny, my newly bouth 74 econoline and my truck.. so the Pan build has gone to second plan.
Shifted some stuff about in the garage, got the 2 other bikes sorted, washed and under cover (unlikely we will get another good riding day over here)
and made some space on the lift...

Not much to look at.
Front 21 star hub, rear 16 mid star.... although I've always been keen on having an 18 rear, so wonder if now would be time to do so.
Tanks... have a peanut and a NOS banana Wassell I tried out.. but not keen on it, seems to long.
Suspension probably going with a wide glide and left drum brake I have... although also fancy the +6 narrow glide.. but wouldnt be able to have a front brake like on my shovel...
but want a front brake on this one as I'll be carrying little one with me.
Have a full mechanical brake setup, including forwards arriving from the US next week, so that will see me put more stuff together.
Want to wrap some rubber around those rims too.

Once I get new stuff then it will make me go through this a bit quicker and throw it all together.

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Old 10-27-2019, 01:39 PM   #32
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

Happy days!!
Some stuff arrived today from the US - complete mech brake setup and a pair of exhaust ends...



Pretty! gives me something to start putting together...
now I've come to a problem....
The mech setup is for a star hub wheel.. there's no bearings on the drum.
But the rear wheel I have is mid star...
Is there any magic out there to get a drum from a star hub to go on a midstar? or is my option here to get a star hub for the back?

and if so... leaves me with a decision, if I have to get a new rear wheel with a star hub.. go 16...or 18... always fancied an 18 rear wheel chop...

suggestions? ideas? thanks!



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Old 10-27-2019, 04:51 PM   #33
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

JP!

Congrats on the parts. Sadly the Mid star and mechanical drum doesn't work as far as I know. The Mid star needs bearing support on the one side which there's no provision for with a starhub. So in short, no. Get yourself a star or use a juice setup to go with the mid.
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Old 10-27-2019, 05:07 PM   #34
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Was hoping there was something clever out there to make up for the bearing difference...

I have a few juice setups but putting a juice setup on a 51 Pan and on a frame like this would be sacrilege.
I even have a juice setup for a star hub wheel. Just not a mech setup for a midstar. Dammit.

I'll have to source a star hub then...
The next question is.. 16 or 18 wheel... Might go for 18.
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Old 10-27-2019, 06:20 PM   #35
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Was hoping there was something clever out there to make up for the bearing difference...

I have a few juice setups but putting a juice setup on a 51 Pan and on a frame like this would be sacrilege.
I even have a juice setup for a star hub wheel. Just not a mech setup for a midstar. Dammit.

I'll have to source a star hub then...
The next question is.. 16 or 18 wheel... Might go for 18.
Unfortunately not that I know of! Somebody on here might tell you otherwise with far more experience than myself but I think you're tied to it.

I agree, I wouldn't ever have a juice again either having had a mech.. far better progressive feel and set up correctly brakes just as well!

Go 18" for sure, having had 16/18/19 I much prefer the latter two!
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Old 10-27-2019, 06:53 PM   #36
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

the Pan was originally on a juice brake and worked beautifully, - this was the setup I had which is strange..
it's a drum for a starhub, with an early back plate (the one that sinks in into the drum)....but with a juice setup....
usually the juice setups, the back plate has a lip that goes over the drum border, this sinks in. but there might have been some years where the juice setups used drums from mech setups...




anyway... yes I'll probably go with an 18.
I should have thought about this earlier as could have got a star hub and rim on this last shipment of bits. :/
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Old 12-18-2019, 09:03 AM   #37
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Another small update! Santa came in early and dropped off my shinny Star hub laced to a 18" WM rim!

really happy with it.. even a fender (mudgard for us here) I had kicking about fits perfectly the size and tyre radius... will be a narrow Queen seat there on the back though!

Can't wait to get this going, think I have most of what I need now.



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Old 12-18-2019, 03:13 PM   #38
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

Excellent decision, the 18".

Funny, and maybe just my ignorant kid's-eye, but as a kid who got obsessed with bikes c. 1964, I virtually never saw an 18" rear on a chopper. But as old pics here and elsewhere make clear, the woods were full of 'em. Maybe a regional (Detroit area) preference for the 16"?
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Old 12-18-2019, 09:46 PM   #39
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

I think because of Easy Rider the 16" tire became suddenly so popular. From Hondas to Triumphs to any 70s chopper the 16" was the must have. Maybe also because the parts houses like Aee were pushing 16s and the fact that a correctly inflated 16 inch tire is a lot more comfortable. I like the 18" on the rear though.
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Old 12-19-2019, 03:10 AM   #40
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

I have always liked the look of 18s, but never got round to do it as it would mean (on my other bikes) a change on fender, sissy bar, etc...

So now was the perfect opportunity to get an 18!

can't wait to get working on it this evening after work.
time is scarse, I usually only get to go in the garage from 8pm when little one goes to bed, but this Saturday she's off for 2 weeks to spend Christmas at her mums, so I'll be playing garage time.
oh.. and need to do oil change in the truck, fit door locks on the econoline, practice more my upholstery and start the first project...and....and... yeh you get the idea! not enough hours in the day for me!
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Old 12-20-2019, 04:48 AM   #41
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

Got in the garage yesterday.
as usual, nothing that you buy new actually fits together. even when 2 pieces are new.
Like the axle and the axle sleeve.. clearly they don't account for the chrome, so clearance is non existent. took me ages to sand down by hand the damn axle.

Ended up not having much time.
Tried out this narrow long front I have had for ages, mainly because I was curious to see how it would look. Love the skinny look.
Not going to use it though as I want to run a front brake and it's too narrow.
for now I'll just put a wide glide, left drum brake and go with that.
A front end is something easy to swap at a later date.

anyway... some photos.





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Old 12-20-2019, 12:20 PM   #42
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

quick change.... now it's more to my liking..



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Old 12-20-2019, 03:58 PM   #43
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yup - better
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Old 12-20-2019, 05:34 PM   #44
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Now you're talking. That fits much better.
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Old 12-20-2019, 09:51 PM   #45
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

I've always liked the look of a speedmaster on a 21" with a wide glide. Course then I like a 16" at the back too. For the 18" rear matches better with the narrow front.
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Old 12-22-2019, 02:42 PM   #46
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thrown a bit more at her today in between wrapping presents..

Gearbox, oil, brake linkages and forward controls.
added a split clamp and cut a set of handlebars I had made ages ago just to make her look like a motorcycle... they seem a bit too high.
but then again, in my opinion 3 things compliment eachother and can change the whole look of a bike... it's the handlebars, tank, sissy bar combo. a change on those 3 make a hell of a difference.

anyway, enough rambling.. photos!






and ended up the day putting an old sissy bar I had made years ago, just to see where we are.
My plan is to build a new out of stainless, likely with a diamond top.

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Old 12-22-2019, 06:00 PM   #47
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Starting to look like a party!!!
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Old 12-23-2019, 12:17 AM   #48
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

Lookin' good JP!
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Old 12-28-2019, 05:23 PM   #49
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

got back in the garage today after the festive season and should be back in there all day tomorrow....

Not much progress...
Dropped the engine in, but have massive gaps that need shimming. On the other frame this engine was there was only shims on the front right mount.
But when I dropped the engine on this one I felt it rocking in the middle of rear mount... thought was strange.
So tighten up the rear bolt on the belt side and have massive gaps.... rear and front.
Engine is matching cases, not sure if they ever been apart.
Dont think the rear was shimmed on the old frame.. but maybe it was, I just didnt noticed when I pulled engine out.
Also, frame quality is good, it's a VG frame.... Going to pull the engine out tomorrow and see if there's any dirt under the mount.

If there's a burr or something, should be alright to just flap disc it? then shim accordingly?

Sissy bar is temporary.
Will need other rear fender too.. this one doesn't match the 18" curve as well as I initially thought...








Also.... stupidly I forgot to take my tranny plate off the old frame when I sold it... and the only one I have is off a later box. Meaning now I have the box sitting on top of it as it won't fall into the middle slots... trying to get one fast so i can crack on with lining things up.. get the belt on, chain on.. check where rear wheel is going to end up so i can then make fender mounts and all that.

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Old 12-29-2019, 11:51 AM   #50
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

When you pull it you can straight edge the engine and frame and see what you got. Does look like something is under the mounts.
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Old 12-29-2019, 12:54 PM   #51
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

yeh I done that this morning.
It's a rear mount that is thiner on one side...



it's all nice and flat on the engine side though, I checked that.

So, the next thing was to see which side would be better to bolt and which side to shim
What I done was bolt down the rear belt side and measure gaps everywhere else - noticed that with this side bolted, then I'd have a sloping gap on the right side

It seems that after all my measurements, the best way to go is to bolt the kicker side down and shim the rest, it seems to have the less gaps and less inconsistency, plus the top motor mount also sits flush on the frame mount on top.
Took a photo of my results to send to a friend, in case you here are interested.



Then came the moral dilema of cutting the rear tank tabs off. Beautiful frame but to keep them would have meant a load of fabrication on the tank, to make a box inside, and to be honest is a lot quicker to weld tabs back on... if by any miracle they will ever be needed again.

I'm liking how she sits.
stuck with the gearbox though.. can't find anyone over here with a Pan transmission plate.... dammit




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Old 12-30-2019, 02:54 PM   #52
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

Looking good so far.

Question, are you having a conflict with the sift linkage connection to the transmission ratchet hitting the oil tank?

It looks like you have an FX ratchet top, they had the linkage attach to the top of the ratchet, the FLs and all older than early 70s had the linkage attach to the bottom of the ratchet. Not positive, but the shift drum may be reversed because of that, if simply flipped on the ratchet attachment the shift pattern would be reversed.
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Old 12-30-2019, 03:04 PM   #53
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

I'd check parallel axle angle to engine mount, and trans mount angles with a digital angle level. While your at it won't hurt to check neck is perpendicular, too. A little time spent with a file will get the mounts flat and parallel.
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Old 12-31-2019, 03:39 AM   #54
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

Coming together nicely
im with joe on the file (do a job properly and that)
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Old 12-31-2019, 11:04 AM   #55
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

I would send it back, I would expect better of VG. You paid good money for that frame and you deserve better, after all it's not a VTwin frame. Even the best can make a mistake, let them correct it. It may save them grief down the road.

Last edited by ncmc47; 01-01-2020 at 11:44 AM.
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Old 12-31-2019, 12:01 PM   #56
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

well theres that option
but a bit of a rigmoral?
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Old 01-02-2020, 04:39 AM   #57
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malamute View Post
Looking good so far.

Question, are you having a conflict with the sift linkage connection to the transmission ratchet hitting the oil tank?

It looks like you have an FX ratchet top, they had the linkage attach to the top of the ratchet, the FLs and all older than early 70s had the linkage attach to the bottom of the ratchet. Not positive, but the shift drum may be reversed because of that, if simply flipped on the ratchet attachment the shift pattern would be reversed.
Yes, FX ratchet.
won't be any conflict, I had this setup working when this drive train was on the 70's frame.
But I'll be going jockey shift, which is the ideal ratchet for this as it will be 1st gear forward on the stick and all other bang,bang,bang to the back.


Quote:
Originally Posted by joe49 View Post
I'd check parallel axle angle to engine mount, and trans mount angles with a digital angle level. While your at it won't hurt to check neck is perpendicular, too. A little time spent with a file will get the mounts flat and parallel.
let me see if I get it what you are explaining..
digital angle gauge (got one) mounted on top of the rear axle. check angle
then gauge on the motor mounts and see if they match the same angle?

got that right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ncmc47 View Post
I would send it back, I would expect better of VG. You paid good money for that frame and you deserve better, after all it's not a VTwin frame. Even the best can make a mistake, let them correct it. It may save them grief down the road.
I did think about sending it back, but as richbob says it would be a right pain, more time waiting, etc,etc.....
Not ideal, but I did weighed that option, plus the fact they might come back and say "it's within tolerance"... so I thought hard about it and then cut the rear fuel tank mounts off... now there's no going back on the frame.



I need to find a rear fender that works well with an 18"... the one I have although is perfect in design, the curvature doesn't match the 18 perfectly as I would like. any ideas on something that would fit an 18 nicely?
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Old 01-02-2020, 06:57 AM   #58
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

look at armours in bournemouth
i bought 18" raw steel guards from them
(talk to them on the phone)
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Old 01-02-2020, 08:44 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [JP] View Post
let me see if I get it what you are explaining..
digital angle gauge (got one) mounted on top of the rear axle. check angle
then gauge on the motor mounts and see if they match the same angle?
got that right?
Yes. ...and check neck is perpendicular, too.
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Old 01-02-2020, 06:06 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richbob View Post
look at armours in bournemouth
i bought 18" raw steel guards from them
(talk to them on the phone)
I saw that how to on lowbrow website about using 2x4 wood planks and open up the edges so the radius open... so I'll give that a go first this weekend, but I'll have a look at those guys too, i'm not far form Bournemouth
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Old 01-03-2020, 01:46 AM   #61
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Default

There’s a thread on here somewhere about that
Flaring the sides to alter radius
Armours web site won’t show mudguards
But they manufacture them for sure.
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Old 01-03-2020, 04:20 AM   #62
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

yes, there is. Although the photos gone blurry since the photobucket thing.

https://www.jockeyjournal.com/forum/...light=shrinker

And here's the article in lowbrow website
https://www.lowbrowcustoms.com/blog/....rcYav9Ay.dpbs

and the original thread on here that lowbrow refers to, but for some reason the post was deleted by RAZ.

https://www.jockeyjournal.com/forum/...+radius&page=2
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Old 01-03-2020, 05:47 AM   #63
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

try Sumo at vintagechops, he makes mudguards as you want, he is a perfectionist and well worth a talk to about what your needs are, ….
https://www.facebook.com/SumoVintageChop/
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Old 01-03-2020, 05:50 AM   #64
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

yeh I know Sumo, he doesn't make them as I want.
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Old 01-04-2020, 09:25 AM   #65
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

Dragged her out today to look at it for far so I can get fuel tank position right.
stupidly took the photos without rear fender on.. duh!

this one seems the tank seems to be too far back..



on this one.... too far forward...



but this one, to me, seems just perfect.
Distance from heads is perfect. and considering i'm not going to cut the front tank mounts, this works well.



Also made a threaded slug that I'll drop inside the top tube, weld it on and then shape to the curvature so the rear tank mount sits flush on the tube.
not sure if there's other ways to do it...but that's what came up in my head.
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Old 01-04-2020, 12:15 PM   #66
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

Yeah, the third one looks best to me as well.

Great looking build, nice work.
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Old 01-04-2020, 05:20 PM   #67
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

Trying to do a million things at the same time..
good news is a friend of mine stripped his pan and he's sending me his tranny support plate till mine gets here, means I can properly bolts things down.

meanwhile, started working on a seat mount, using the seat post with a rod (fully threaded or not) will bolt under the frame to keep the top part in place.
I'll then weld a couple of hinges.
still not sure where I'm going with this, but dont want a hinge in front of the seat. Want it all hidden. So need to think about it.
possibly double hinged so it can clean the frame when seat has to be lifted forward... and some kind of boxed section on the seat pan to keep it all tucked in there and pan in line with frame.



and a shot of that and the threaded bung, ready to be welded.

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Old 01-05-2020, 11:43 AM   #68
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

Another good day..
made a bracket extension for the tank front mount, although then looking at it I'm going to have to add something to the side, some kind of curve, too sharp line going from the roundness of the tank and then almost a 90 degree angle to the bracket...





Also here's a tip.
I'm sure all of you know, but I like to post stuff like this to help someone new to all of this.
it's always the simple things that give more pleasure in doing.

When you need to make a hole on something that has to be perfectly lined up..
Get a bolt that matches the thread of your threaded hole
Machine it into a tip..
Screw it on, lay your material in place, whack it and hey! you got a mark to drill perfectly.







final shots....
Going to use this fuel cap I brought from the US in amongst a bunch of other ones.
not sure if it's something special or someone just glued a harley badge to it... but I like it.



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Old 01-05-2020, 12:13 PM   #69
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

I like the inverted centre punch! smart idea.

Tank fitment and placement there is spot on too mate! excited to see her finished!
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Old 01-05-2020, 01:51 PM   #70
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

Gas cap is nice, although it makes me wonder if somebody saw the vent hole in the top of the cap and thought "Stupid place for a hole! I'll tidy it up with this bar-&-shield pin."
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Old 01-05-2020, 05:39 PM   #71
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Gas cap is nice, although it makes me wonder if somebody saw the vent hole in the top of the cap and thought "Stupid place for a hole! I'll tidy it up with this bar-&-shield pin."
I have a few on this style with nothing on top and none have vent holes though.
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Old 01-05-2020, 09:25 PM   #72
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

Good! I'll stop wondering.
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Old 01-20-2020, 03:33 AM   #73
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

Not much to update, been busy with other stuff, but here's some of what happened this weekend.

Finally received my stuff from the US, including the tranny plate I needed.
here's 2 side by side...

On the left one for early transmissions, on the right, late transmission.
difference is the hole pattern on the front and the middle slots.
the early plates are slightly wider, which allow the early transmissions to drop in.

Now, mine fits!




Other than that...
I looked at that transition from the fuel tank curve into the bracket - which I didn't like. too sharp.
So I bashed some metal, welded it in, reshaped... think it looks better now.







Another thing I've been thinking is - how to secure K&Q seat to the rear fender.
Now I have seen lots of times done which is the usual bolt through... but this can be a right pain in the ass if you need to lift the seat and there's almost no space between fender and mudguard to put a spanner.

So, I have been thinking of using what is named out there as hood pop-up buttons.
- They are pretty strong when clipped together.
- I could make the seat base with a top hat spacer in order to adjust it so seat base and fender are close together when clipped.
-Due to the wide entry angle on the fastner, helps as the seat won't go down straight due to curvature.
- the top part will have a bolt and a bracket across the sissy bar.
- on the front I'm thinking of using a hidden hinge welded to a disc on the seat post and a rod all the way to the bottom of it with another washer/disc/spacer (don't know what to call it)



They are a lot smaller than these on the video, but you get the idea..

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Old 02-11-2020, 05:18 AM   #74
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

Haven't had time to do anything on this, so many other things going on that I'm slowly losing interest.

haven't been in the garage for like 3 weeks or so.

Been thinking when it comes to do the seat pan (King and Queen) what are your suggestion in regards to the rear fender?
rear fender has a ridge on it.... so should I make the seat pan with the ridge - fck knows how as I dont have one of those bead roller things - or just cut the ridge on the fender (on only the area where the seat pan will go) and weld a flat plate in there.....
or....
any ideas?
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Old 02-11-2020, 07:00 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [JP] View Post
Haven't had time to do anything on this, so many other things going on that I'm slowly losing interest.

haven't been in the garage for like 3 weeks or so.

Been thinking when it comes to do the seat pan (King and Queen) what are your suggestion in regards to the rear fender?
rear fender has a ridge on it.... so should I make the seat pan with the ridge - fck knows how as I dont have one of those bead roller things - or just cut the ridge on the fender (on only the area where the seat pan will go) and weld a flat plate in there.....
or....
any ideas?
Hey bud,

Why not make the seat pan out of fibreglass? can mold it to the fender? What I did on my pan with the K&Q!
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Old 02-12-2020, 03:26 AM   #76
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

did think about that, but have never used it before, won't it be too flimsy for a king and Queen?
what about the area from seat pan onto mudguard? that is kind of sligthly floating as it curves up.... won't that be weak?

I was also planning on doing the hump between rider and passeger out of metal for better suppport.... fibre glass might not be strong enough?

what about nuts on the back to screw fixing bolts to? hwo do you do that with fibreglass? weld a nut into a square piece of metal and then embed that into the middle of the fibre glass? will it be strong enough or will it move/brake as you tighten up a bolt?
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Old 02-12-2020, 03:53 AM   #77
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did think about that, but have never used it before, won't it be too flimsy for a king and Queen?
what about the area from seat pan onto mudguard? that is kind of sligthly floating as it curves up.... won't that be weak?

I was also planning on doing the hump between rider and passeger out of metal for better suppport.... fibre glass might not be strong enough?

what about nuts on the back to screw fixing bolts to? hwo do you do that with fibreglass? weld a nut into a square piece of metal and then embed that into the middle of the fibre glass? will it be strong enough or will it move/brake as you tighten up a bolt?
Fibreglass is SUPER SUPER strong dude. If you watch some vids how to do it, you "paint" strips on to the area and cross/build it up It'll form PERFECTLY to the shape you need. I ran my K&Q for a year just fine. FG is super strong once cured!.

I had a nut in mine to bolt it down to by sissy through mudgard. Rock solid. Just put a washer etc to spread the load.
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Old 02-12-2020, 04:03 AM   #78
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

mmhhh I have seen how its made, have a vague idea how it all works, but my firberblass experience is from fairings on track race bikes and never thought they were very strong...

might have to have a look at it, maybe do a small test.
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Old 02-12-2020, 05:44 AM   #79
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

I recently pulled the vinyl cover off a Corbin seat with a fiberglass pan. I was impressed by how thick the pan is. About 1/4" or 7mm for you euro guys.
My experience with sport fairings is that they tend to much thinner for weight savings.
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Old 02-18-2020, 06:31 PM   #80
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

Done a bit more on this thing today...

Dug out my sissy bar steel plate jig, drew up some measurements from the bike back end, drilled, tapped, done some more bungs for the bends - because I like to have the option to always go back to previous designs and not tacking bungs in place and then having to grind off.

Made this sissy bar, but dont really like it. the top is way too big and was the first time using an oxy kit so some bends have not bend exactly the same as the opposite side - bit of a learning curve of where to heat, I used to use a small circular forge on previous ones I done.
But this is all trial and error when you do something the first time. Also first time I'm doing something with this type of design. my previous one been way simpler tops.

anyway.. some photos. everyone likes photos.

working out where to drill and tap for the bungs using previous bits of bars - didn't work well though as I don't like it hahaha



tapped the holes



made a bunch of bungs for the jig...and a bung for the sissy bar end where it bolts to the axle plate. Prefer it to the simple way of just welding a flat steel plate in the end.



cracked on with the oxy kit and bending..



Need to make something that is more steady and holds the jig in place, this is not right and dangerous.





and kind of on the bike... don't like it though. Think I'll make a new one.
this one the top is way too big.. although I'll be making a king and queen.. i think would still be too big.
also, the bends near the rear fender are not exactly the same and my OCD doesn't like it..



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Old 02-19-2020, 02:11 AM   #81
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

liken' your reasoning around mounting issues, they really set a build apart.
however, one demerit for leaving chuck key in chuck 8(
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Old 02-19-2020, 06:50 AM   #82
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

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however, one demerit for leaving chuck key in chuck 8(
yes, very well spotted, I left it there as a test! you pass! hahaha

Only joking. I'm pretty good at removing the key, although I confess I left it twice on there yesterday.
However, I do have this habit where i run my hand through the chuck before starting any work - so no chance ever of being started with a key on it.
The only times I have left it is when I have removed my piece from the chuck, which doesn't bother me too much as there would be reason to start the lathe if there was no material on the chuck.
nonetheless, always good practice to remove it no matter what.
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Old 02-19-2020, 07:24 AM   #83
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

another demerit for excuses.
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Old 02-19-2020, 01:44 PM   #84
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

In engineering school back in the fatherland they showed us gruesome pics of long hair caught in the drill press etc. One showed a poor guy whose lathe had the on/off switch down low on the left and as he turned it on the forgotten chuck key punctured the back of his head.
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Old 02-19-2020, 04:08 PM   #85
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

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y
I'm pretty good at removing the key, although I confess I left it twice on there yesterday.
nonetheless, always good practice to remove it no matter what.
I have a method that works well, the chuck wrench is an extension of your left hand, it never leaves your hand until you put it back down. That usually works well.

Some of them now have a spring around the square and requires you to push it in to use, then the spring would push it off if it was left on. Simple modification for someone who forgets.
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Old 02-19-2020, 04:29 PM   #86
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

No machine tool or machine will feel any remorse.
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Old 02-20-2020, 08:07 AM   #87
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

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I have a method that works well, the chuck wrench is an extension of your left hand, it never leaves your hand until you put it back down. That usually works well.
Mine is the right hand.
I guess as the switch is straight above the chuck that's why I run my hand on it.
right hand runs over the chuck, then up towards the switch.
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Old 02-20-2020, 08:08 AM   #88
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

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another demerit for excuses.
what's a demerit?
do i get a prize or something? never heard that word
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Old 02-20-2020, 08:38 AM   #89
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

A demerit is you lose one point.
https://www.google.com/search?q=deme...hrome&ie=UTF-8
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Old 02-20-2020, 08:40 AM   #90
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

lose one point for excuses? now i'm even more confused lol
I think i know what you mean, just wasn't sure with that word.
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Old 02-20-2020, 11:16 AM   #91
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Old 02-20-2020, 04:12 PM   #92
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

That video shows what horseplay leads to. That kid is extremely lucky, that could have been far worse.

I use that video from time to time to reinforce the message that machines have no emotion.
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Old 02-20-2020, 05:40 PM   #93
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

that video is good. puts me right off the dancing party I had planned on top of my lathe this weekend....
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Old 02-21-2020, 08:39 AM   #94
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

A example. DO NOT LOOK IF YOU'RE SQUEAMISH!!!
https://www.riverdavesplace.com/foru...t-to-see.3124/
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Old 03-08-2020, 11:54 AM   #95
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

Have done nothing on the bike.
Been faffing about with other stuff, done an oil change on my C10...and a few odd jobs here and there.

and built a frame for my sissy bar jig.
for ages I been meaning to do this. Space is not much and I dont have space for a big table to bend sissy bars, meaning I end up balancing shit on top of a temp table and it's just not safe. so if you can't go horizontal...go vertical.

Built a frame that goes on the vice, which then the jig hangs over and is bolted via 2 bolts so when I apply forces to bend bars it doesn't move.
Might add a couple of gussets and maybe the same type of stick out arms out but going down, but don't think it's necessary, have hung off it and it's solid there.









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Old 03-08-2020, 12:46 PM   #96
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Nice work and thinkin'.
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Old 03-09-2020, 11:19 AM   #97
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

One demerit equals 50 push ups, you'll get the idea fast!
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Old 03-09-2020, 07:09 PM   #98
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

That is a cool jig!

Bike is looking good.
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Old 06-06-2020, 03:45 PM   #99
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

Finally!! something to update!
after getting through most of other things on my list today I got on with something on the Pan...
after getting the wheel moved slightly, so it sits where it should, was time to work on some fender mounts... nothing special, but done something so that's a start haha



equal on both sides just like my OCD likes haha



and the mounts, still need to weld it up... not sure how I'm going to get my tig in the middle of the 2 plates to weld the inside to the frame though.
need to check if one of my smallest cups can fit in there..





also done a little timelapse for a laugh.

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Old 06-06-2020, 05:15 PM   #100
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

Electrode 3/4 inch out of the cup and the gasflow up a few liters , 3 or 4 amps more than usual .....and perhaps pray a bit in advance
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Old 06-06-2020, 05:19 PM   #101
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

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Electrode 3/4 inch out of the cup and the gasflow up a few liters , 3 or 4 amps more than usual .....and perhaps pray a bit in advance
I did think that, will be far away from doing it though as will only tack it for now and do it properly when frame is bare and I can turn it upside down.

Also want to try something I saw on weldmonger feed the other day where he actually bends the electrode in order to get to hard to reach places, haven't tried that one yet.
which I think I might have to do as dont think I'll have the correct angle getting the cup down there, will check tomorrow.
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Old 06-07-2020, 10:16 AM   #102
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

Bending rods, welding with a mirror, all great fun. Stick or tig just another trick.
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Old 06-07-2020, 10:24 AM   #103
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

Check out pipe welding videos on you tube. Jackson stinger and you almost all the time bend the rod.
https://weldingsupply.com/cgi-bin/ei...:UNDEF:X:14684
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Old 06-07-2020, 10:35 AM   #104
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

Between those fender bracket would be easy stick weld. When I started stick is what we had, no cheap tig or mig machines, back then.
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Old 06-08-2020, 05:27 AM   #105
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

yeh stick would be perfect there good shout, or ARC welding like we call it here, I have a brand new setup for stick welding that goes with my TIG, never actually used it.

Might give that a go, need a few practice pieces as been a few years since I done stick welding, helping a friend with fence gates...
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Old 06-09-2020, 12:17 PM   #106
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

Any idea on these 2 tanks?
the one on the left matches the flares on my oil lines pretty well.. but the tank looks crap,
the tank on the right is in much better condition but the flare seems different? maybe just smaller, angle is kind of the same... what this all about? different years or just both really bad copies?

the threads on the one on the left arent great either, I can tighten the oil lines (rigid lines) but not as easy, maybe because they are in better condition..
also... oil cap. aren't these supposed to be all the same? if I take the one from the left and try screw on the right tank it won't go in easy....

any ideas?



EDIT: had a look online and doesnt seem to be any changes on thread types on the connections or the fuel cap, its all the same throughout the years. Must be one really shitty copy.
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Old 06-09-2020, 03:50 PM   #107
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

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Any idea on these 2 tanks?
the one on the left matches the flares on my oil lines pretty well.. but the tank looks crap,
the tank on the right is in much better condition but the flare seems different? maybe just smaller, angle is kind of the same... what this all about? different years or just both really bad copies?

the threads on the one on the left arent great either, I can tighten the oil lines (rigid lines) but not as easy, maybe because they are in better condition..
also... oil cap. aren't these supposed to be all the same? if I take the one from the left and try screw on the right tank it won't go in easy....

any ideas?



EDIT: had a look online and doesnt seem to be any changes on thread types on the connections or the fuel cap, its all the same throughout the years. Must be one really shitty copy.
Lots of real shitty copies and repops about JP! I had to alter my rigid lines to fit mine and I have a really nice repop. I was going to use an OEM, but like yours the threads were on their way out..

I've yet to have a single one that hasn't weeped from the cap either.. I have a dipstick on my cap, which is quite handy.. but it also shows that my oil level is too high.. even though i went to my manual exactly!!!
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Old 06-09-2020, 04:40 PM   #108
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Default Re: 1951 Panhead build thread

the threads on the one on the left are fine, they hold the lines good, but the overall state of the tank is a mess, bits of discolouration and burnt. would be perfect to use on an old chop...
but as I'm doing the Pan with a nice paint, would just look out of place, had this other kicking about, but threads really are shit. might need to take a die set through it, make them a bit better I guess.

i don't have dipstick on any of my bikes, I just put oil in and stick my finger in it, as long as it's not right to the top and there's space to vent, the more the better, helps to cool down
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Old 06-10-2020, 04:18 AM   #109
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the threads on the one on the left are fine, they hold the lines good, but the overall state of the tank is a mess, bits of discolouration and burnt. would be perfect to use on an old chop...
but as I'm doing the Pan with a nice paint, would just look out of place, had this other kicking about, but threads really are shit. might need to take a die set through it, make them a bit better I guess.

i don't have dipstick on any of my bikes, I just put oil in and stick my finger in it, as long as it's not right to the top and there's space to vent, the more the better, helps to cool down
Agreed about the oil! I dipstick is wrong.. but I know if it's not covered in oil I may want to add a little in you know! haha.

Yeah, there's so many cheap knock offs sadly, which require work to make them runnable. Shame the pan isn't grimy it would look great. I left my oil bag outside for a month, let it mark and rust a little, so it looks well used. Worked out okay! As mentioned, none of the lines fitted properly, had to give them all a little persuasion, especially the feed line.
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