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Old 05-17-2020, 11:52 AM   #1
46international
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Default Shovelhead cams

for the guys that were following my thread about the pushrods, thanks, I got that problem solved. The S&S "quickie" pushrods have the adjustment needed.

Now on the the next problem, the cam has a bad lobe I did not see that until I started cleaning parts to put it back together. The cam that is in it now is an Andrews "F" grind. I understand they don't make these anymore and they were made for bikes that had a pinging problem with the "A" grind. I don't know what pistons are in the motor and it was running good before so I would like to stick with something close to the "F" grind I have.

This is the late style cam with the grove cut in the side of the gear.
any thoughts?
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Old 05-17-2020, 01:38 PM   #2
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Default Re: Shovelhead cams

today and for years now we only install the A2 Andrews it comes on early and late with the gear groove

it idles smooth and makes all the power down low 1500 to 4000 RPMs

if you want a ghetto blaster this is not it - its a cam for stock or near stock that makes a good amount of power more so then the original H does not

the F and the A are worthless junk in my opinion
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Old 05-17-2020, 03:16 PM   #3
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Default Re: Shovelhead cams

Thanks I was looking at the A2 also. One problem down, now I need new tappets, will the S&S tappets # 33-5352 work in the shovelhead tappet boxes?

the reason I'm looking at these is I just bought the S&S adjustable pushrods and they have 3/8" ball ends on the tappet end and I think these tappets have the 3/8" socket.

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Old 05-19-2020, 10:37 AM   #4
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Default Re: Shovelhead cams

I run the A2 and like it good power from bottom to top end.
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Old 05-19-2020, 11:33 AM   #5
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Default Re: Shovelhead cams

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjzjz View Post

the F and the A are worthless junk in my opinion
A&J are my go-to grinds for stock-ish street Shovels equipped with solids and should be similar to your F, IMO.
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Old 05-19-2020, 12:37 PM   #6
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Default Re: Shovelhead cams

A and F or J they are geared towards leaded fuel machines not that a 35 / 40 year design is an issue but the lobe separation angle comes into play with unleaded and alcohol as an additive - its set so the spark knocks don't not take over the engine when the duration and a small amount of lift is added like we have in the A2 today

we see it as the best restoration cam available from anyone for pans or shovels 74 inch but its fine in an 80 as well

just my take others have a different out look that's fine
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Old 05-19-2020, 01:41 PM   #7
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Default Re: Shovelhead cams

well, I already have an A2 on the way, have not done anything for tappets yet should I go with hyd or solid?
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Old 05-19-2020, 02:05 PM   #8
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Default Re: Shovelhead cams

I talked to Andrews they said you can run solid with any of there cams.
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Old 05-19-2020, 02:57 PM   #9
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Default Re: Shovelhead cams

its always quieter with hyd lifters performance is the same with the same bike

but some engines just perform better then others
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Old 05-19-2020, 04:35 PM   #10
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Default Re: Shovelhead cams

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Originally Posted by johnjzjz View Post
A and F or J they are geared towards leaded fuel machines not that a 35 / 40 year design is an issue but the lobe separation angle comes into play with unleaded and alcohol as an additive - its set so the spark knocks don't not take over the engine when the duration and a small amount of lift is added like we have in the A2 today

we see it as the best restoration cam available from anyone for pans or shovels 74 inch but its fine in an 80 as well

just my take others have a different out look that's fine
You're saying the LSA is too narrow in those? I would think detonation would mostly be a CR issue, and I would also think hi-alky gas would keep ping at bay, not encourage it.

I just always assumed those mild cams all had wide LSA for good low-down power and street manners. Does Andrews have specs for LSA?

I've had Shovels all around 8:1 and never had issues, but I also don't cook the shit out of them, either... hot's not fun for me or the bikes, I guess.

I figured the big LSA on the A/J/F was
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Old 05-19-2020, 07:32 PM   #11
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Default Re: Shovelhead cams

the term that is used to describe this is static compression

think of it this way - long duration cam shaft at low engine turning speed the intake valve closes when the piston is at a closer to TDC - then - a shorter duration camshaft that the piston is lower in the cylinder when the intake valve closes

giving they both have the same pistons and bore - plus the same stroke

static compression is the volume of air to be compressed at intake valve closing location to TDC - shorter duration makes more low end power forgoing top engine speed power

so shorter duration at low engine speeds has actually more ( static ) compression and can and will push the button on pre ignition
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Old 05-19-2020, 08:24 PM   #12
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Default Re: Shovelhead cams

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Originally Posted by govmule84 View Post
You're saying the LSA is too narrow in those? I would think detonation would mostly be a CR issue, and I would also think hi-alky gas would keep ping at bay, not encourage it.

I just always assumed those mild cams all had wide LSA for good low-down power and street manners. Does Andrews have specs for LSA?

I've had Shovels all around 8:1 and never had issues, but I also don't cook the shit out of them, either... hot's not fun for me or the bikes, I guess.

I figured the big LSA on the A/J/F was
I'm going to date myself. In ancient times we spoke overlap not LSA. The overlap decreases as LSA increases and cranking pressure increases. Less overlap larger LSA, this increases the cylinder pressure, which can then do more work, which increases low end power, with this pressure increase can come the ping and detonation if the octane of the gas isn't high enough. This also requires under standing compression ratio. As overlap increases cylinder pressure goes down, to bring this into a efficient range static compression is increased. These things combined raise the rpm range that the engine produces it's best power.
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Old 05-20-2020, 05:46 AM   #13
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Default Re: Shovelhead cams

John and Joe, That is the way I have understood it also. That is the reason I was thinking the A2 would be better for me, not knowing my compression ratio but knowing the bike ran good before (as far as pinging goes) I did not want a cam that was too mild as that may cause a pinging problem. And the A2 looked to be just a little more aggressive then the F that I had, while the J cam is just a little less aggressive then the F, so it may increase the cylinder pressure. anyway the A2 will be here Thursday so lets just hope it works out ok.

Thinks for the info.
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Old 05-20-2020, 06:20 AM   #14
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Default Re: Shovelhead cams

we have installed or sold 100 of them at least because they work
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Old 05-20-2020, 08:33 AM   #15
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Default Re: Shovelhead cams

"sold" so you have a shop/business?

About the cam, my thinking is that the more aggressive would bleed off some cylinder pressure and prevent another problem before it starts.



I have some tappets coming, just the shells and rollers so far, I'm trying to find a hyd unit or solid adapter that will work with my new pushrods that I just bought. These new pushrods have 3/8" ball ends not the stock 1/4" or so ends. If you remember, I bought these when I was looking for something that would work with those obsolete Crane Cam's tappets I have. Now I have to replace those tappets. Should have looked at the cam first, someone told me to do that.
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Old 05-20-2020, 10:20 AM   #16
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Default Re: Shovelhead cams

So, does the timing get set to a different % from the OEM H grind, if you've installed an A, A2, F or J cam ?
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Old 05-20-2020, 03:16 PM   #17
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Default Re: Shovelhead cams

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So, does the timing get set to a different % from the OEM H grind, if you've installed an A, A2, F or J cam ?

while the tools we have allow us the ability to adjust the timing in 1 degree increments - all cams come what is termed as heads up - zero in location - or more common term -- heads up

if you advance the cam it improves the low end of the engines power 2 or 4 degrees is about all you want to move the cams centerline away from the crankshafts center line

if you retard the cam same 2 or 4 degrees it will make the power higher in the RPM range and for go the low end power you might want for street driving

this is actually a race engine adjustment as retarding a 1000 HP drag motor will let it foot print off the lights in drag racing and not spin the tires - as much or not at all -- way to many things to consider to get into this more

for what almost everyone is doing with the street machine they have no changing of center line adjustments will be of any benefit - period

none of the cams listed and altering timing adjustments should be tried keep it in stock location
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Old 05-20-2020, 08:12 PM   #18
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What kind of results have you seen when degreein' 'em, John? Pretty close to true heads-up, or are they off?

Just curious. I know it's a matter to consider when swappin' cam gears.
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Old 05-21-2020, 05:34 AM   #19
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I guess the way you do that would be to push the gear off and use an offset key?
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Old 05-21-2020, 06:40 AM   #20
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No, they're press-fit and that's it. No key. I actually don't know how the hell I'd keep 'em aligned right other than scribing a mark...
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