I bought an S&S super E to make my bike run better... not WORSE! - The Jockey Journal Board

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Old 05-02-2014, 03:05 PM   #1
imwastefull
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Default I bought an S&S super E to make my bike run better... not WORSE!

Here's the skinny;

I had an S&S B on my bike. started easy, idled well but i didn't like the stutter it had while accelerating from no pump so i bought an S&S E.

Now my bike won't even fucking start!

i got the E from a buddy who also had it on an Ironhead. I cracked it open and sprayed all passages, the pump works great, it's stamped from 2011 so i doubt it has a worn shaft. I reset the air, idle speed and pump to stock S&S specs.

I thought that it might be the intermediate jet so i bumped it up to an 0295 from an 028

the bike HAS SPARK and spits and sputters all day but just won't start.

SPECS;

'74 ironhead, stroked, dual plug.

the B had 68 main and 28 int
the E has 66 main and 29.5 int

i also have a 26.5 intermediate... but i'm not convinced that the intermediate jet is the issue.

what the fuck should i do?
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Old 05-02-2014, 03:09 PM   #2
magnum45pete
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Default Re: I bought an S&S super E to make my bike run better... not WORSE!

sorry for ya misfortune,....I for one don't rate S&S carbs,over-rated
should have got a Mikuni......far far better carb..........
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Old 05-02-2014, 03:11 PM   #3
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Default Re: I bought an S&S super E to make my bike run better... not WORSE!

Quote:
Originally Posted by imwastefull View Post
Here's the skinny;

I had an S&S B on my bike. started easy, idled well but i didn't like the stutter it had while accelerating from no pump so i bought an S&S E.

Now my bike won't even fucking start!

i got the E from a buddy who also had it on an Ironhead. I cracked it open and sprayed all passages, the pump works great, it's stamped from 2011 so i doubt it has a worn shaft. I reset the air, idle speed and pump to stock S&S specs.

I thought that it might be the intermediate jet so i bumped it up to an 0295 from an 028

the bike HAS SPARK and spits and sputters all day but just won't start.

SPECS;

'74 ironhead, stroked, dual plug.

the B had 68 main and 28 int
the E has 66 main and 29.5 int

i also have a 26.5 intermediate... but i'm not convinced that the intermediate jet is the issue.

what the fuck should i do?
most of the time the super e is too big of a carb for an ironhead
try a stock cv carb from a later evo sporty you will have better luck with it on an ironhead

just my experience
super e is a good all around carb but I find they really work better on a big twin
sportys I'll stick with a stock evo CV carb

I had a 1960 XLCH a few years ago with a set of 5 1/8" custom stroke flywheels
highly modified heads and big bore cylinders
sifton barracuda cams
even with that hopped up motor I couldn't get any solid results from the super e
I put a stock rebuilt CV on it and got the right size jets on it and the bike was a totally different animal
started easy
pulled hard in every gear from idle all the way through the rpm range
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Old 05-02-2014, 04:01 PM   #4
imwastefull
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Default Re: I bought an S&S super E to make my bike run better... not WORSE!

Thank you for your suggestions brothers, but a new carb is not an option. There are thousands of ironheads out there running strong with the S&S super E.

Also, i just spent a bunch of money on this shit-box so i have to make it work!
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Old 05-02-2014, 04:47 PM   #5
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Default Re: I bought an S&S super E to make my bike run better... not WORSE!

im no expert and have benefited from a lot of help here.
try turning off the pump until you get close to where you wanna be.
its sorta like going back to your old carb for a little while but may be what you need.
also look at cleaning the spray nozzle on the pump feed.
mine was just dumping fuel and not a fine mist.
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Old 05-02-2014, 04:48 PM   #6
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Default Re: I bought an S&S super E to make my bike run better... not WORSE!

Quote:
Originally Posted by KELD View Post
im no expert and have benefited from a lot of help here.
try turning off the pump until you get close to where you wanna be.
its sorta like going back to your old carb for a little while but may be what you need.
also look at cleaning the spray nozzle on the pump feed.
mine was just dumping fuel and not a fine mist.

These are two excellent suggestions IMHO.
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Old 05-02-2014, 05:35 PM   #7
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Default Re: I bought an S&S super E to make my bike run better... not WORSE!

Im curious as to the carb getting the blame here. They are cfm sized larger and they have an accel pump. Pretty basic and similar to the B. If they are jetted similarly as they appear to be, might look at the basics and simple stuff first before. Intake leaks and fuel delivery, float and needle n' seat. All the passages need to be clear and the hole on the front where the air cleaner cannot be plugged.

I've swapped lots and lots of known good carbs around on known good motors in that endless pursuit of performance. Usually started and ran fine with minor adjustments and then test rides to see if I won or not. However, if there was such a major issue like starting, then the problem lied elsewhere. Sometimes it was something I missed or something else happened to take a shit at the same time.
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Old 05-02-2014, 05:39 PM   #8
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Default Re: I bought an S&S super E to make my bike run better... not WORSE!

I have a Super E that runs well on both my '66 (900cc) and my friends '77 (1000cc) using a 72 Main Jet and 295 intermediate FWIW
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Old 05-02-2014, 06:00 PM   #9
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Default Re: I bought an S&S super E to make my bike run better... not WORSE!

Just another voice in the chorus but my Ironhead runs and starts wonderfully with the stone-age Super E. Love that carb just like the B that's on my Shovel. Simple carbs for tractor motors, hahaha.

If yer bike was starting and running fine with the B and you haven't messed with any other part f the bike, then the problem is either with the setup or the carb. Soubds like you were pretty thorough on the cleaning and baseline settings. Were the two steel balls and the spring in place when you assembled the accelerator pump? Was the diaphragm in good shape? Does the float have a hole in it and is fulla gas? Float height set correctly?

Hows about the intake side of things - got good sealing there? Are you getting gas to the plugs? Remove the a/c and watch the spray pattern from the acc pump while you twist the throttle. Does it spray directly in the middle? If not, gently twist it until it does.

Ya got a couple things to check out. Hell, spray a little gas into the cylinders and see if it fires like it should. Keep us informed. You will have a fine running motorscikle if ya spend some time tuning. Don't give up...
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Old 05-02-2014, 06:04 PM   #10
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Default Re: I bought an S&S super E to make my bike run better... not WORSE!

Was that damn blue o ring there?
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Old 05-02-2014, 06:21 PM   #11
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Default Re: I bought an S&S super E to make my bike run better... not WORSE!

[QUOTE=Shacknasty;1382921]
If yer bike was starting and running fine with the B and you haven't messed with any other part f the bike, then the problem is either with the setup or the carb. Soubds like you were pretty thorough on the cleaning and baseline settings. Were the two steel balls and the spring in place when you assembled the accelerator pump? Was the diaphragm in good shape? Does the float have a hole in it and is fulla gas? Float height set correctly?

Hows about the intake side of things - got good sealing there?




So, I went out and checked spark again, nice and bright. made sure that the electronic ignition didn't move. I put an 0265 intermediate jet in and after 40 kicks she finally fired. Seemed to run well and she idled for a couple minutes and then eventually stalled as i was messing with the settings.

After that i pushed her outside and got her started after another 40 kicks. she seemed to finally start once i had the air mixture screw only about a half turn out. Once i got her running i took her around the block and she ran really well but again stalled as i fucked with the settings. 20 kicks after that i gave in and pushed her home.

point is; 66 main jet, 0265 intermediate jet and half turned air screw and she starts once your nearly having heat exhaustion.

shit is fucked.
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Old 05-02-2014, 06:56 PM   #12
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Default Re: I bought an S&S super E to make my bike run better... not WORSE!

Stock S&S air cleaner or something else? If 'something else' you have to remove a bowl vent plug to make it breathe properly.
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Old 05-02-2014, 08:00 PM   #13
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Default Re: I bought an S&S super E to make my bike run better... not WORSE!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grinder Bill View Post
Stock S&S air cleaner or something else? If 'something else' you have to remove a bowl vent plug to make it breathe properly.
Another good point. and absolutely necessary.
I too, do Not believe that an "E" is optimum for a Stock displacement I.H.
Sell the Damn thing and get a Zenith/Bendix.
Or Join the masses [google S&S E on a Shovel or I.H.]!!!
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Old 05-02-2014, 08:10 PM   #14
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Default Re: I bought an S&S super E to make my bike run better... not WORSE!

If it ran nicely with a B it'll run nicely with an E. All this talk about "Sell it and buy what I like" doesn't help. If you're in the ballpark, there's no reason a bike takes 40 kicks(or 20 for that matter) to start. Check all the basics, battery charge, yada yada yada. ignition timing, etc. The E is a fine carb just like all the rest. If you don't know how to tune it, it'll give you fits. Read the S&S manual for the E and start from scratch. Good carb, just like a lot of other carbs. Learn about what you have and tune it correctly and you'll be happy with it.
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Old 05-02-2014, 10:27 PM   #15
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Default Re: I bought an S&S super E to make my bike run better... not WORSE!

Blue O ring!
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Old 05-02-2014, 10:59 PM   #16
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Default Re: I bought an S&S super E to make my bike run better... not WORSE!

Try kicking it connected to a battery charger. My pan super e would only start on a big blue spark.
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Old 05-03-2014, 05:48 AM   #17
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Default Re: I bought an S&S super E to make my bike run better... not WORSE!

After 20 plus kicks with nothing,take out your plugs are they wet with fuel
If there wet you need to be looking at something else .


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Old 05-03-2014, 06:44 AM   #18
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Default Re: I bought an S&S super E to make my bike run better... not WORSE!

I find that even the slightest change in the recipe can fuck up the sweetness, you'll get it back.
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Old 05-03-2014, 06:58 AM   #19
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Default Re: I bought an S&S super E to make my bike run better... not WORSE!

Im,
I know how frustrating tuning can be but, the two don't mix well. If your aggravated, put your tools down and walk away for a while. If any bike takes more than 2 or 3 kicks to start, there are issues, stop and go back to square one, the basics.

You've gotten some really good ideas as to what it might be and I'll add, on the isolator block and the mounting flange of the carb body, there are o-rings, these have to be in perfect condition, if they are broken or even cracked a little, they will draw air and make tuning almost imposable.

With everything said and the fact that your only turning the fuel air screw out a half a turn, wait until you have the time to do it right and pull the carb and go over everything as per the S&S manual. Clean everything again and blow it out with air. Inspect everything really good and if anything is questionable, replace it. Make sure everything is there and where it should be (that little blue o-ring that Jaws is talking about, the bowl gasket is in good shape and on right, the ass pump, cleaner gasket and cleaner itself and like I said, the o-rings on the isolator and body, float is set right, needle and seat are in good shape). Make sure you have the jets that S&S suggests for a base line, if I remember right, 28 to 295 on the inter and a 68 main but, check and use what they call for.

You've said you have the Ing. dialed in, assuming you do, go get a new set of plugs, they are pretty cheap and if the old ones are good, throw them in your bag for spares.

Now with the new plugs in, take your time and reassemble everything with the ass pump turned off and the idle screw turned out a turn and a quarter to a turn and a half, try it again. If it wont start after a coupla kicks, stop, you have something wrong, go back over it.
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Old 05-03-2014, 07:02 AM   #20
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Default Re: I bought an S&S super E to make my bike run better... not WORSE!

After that i pushed her outside and got her started after another 40 kicks. she seemed to finally start once i had the air mixture screw only about a half turn out. [/QUOTE]

This Half a turn out is telling me it is running Rich I believe it should be more like 2 to 2 1/2 turns out or close to it to be proper, what did the plugs look like after your test ride?..black and sooty??
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