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Old 10-02-2018, 07:14 PM   #1
brian meister
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Default Lets talk PAINT!!

I rarely see (though I admit I haven't been looking specifically) people discuss how to and what they use painting at home. Probably going to try my hand at a tank and some fenders over the winter. Done a little bit (I do mean LITTLE bit) of spraying, only solid colors, never any metal flake or anything fancy. Have access to a blast cabinet. What are your experiences and recommendations for painting at home? Costs, materials, set up's.....any and all input appreciated. Pics would be great too.
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Old 10-02-2018, 07:39 PM   #2
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Default Re: Lets talk PAINT!!

Well, why not, plenty of other paint threads if you look for them but everyone likes taking about paint. The painting process itself is science so itís a mistake to go about it like an artist. Do any imaginative stuff on paper in the house.

Problems at home:

Dust (use water mist)
Moisture (use a compressor water trap)
Heat (use an electric heater and guess work)
Bugs (choose the right time of day / year)
Light (get lots of it)
Cheap guns
Failure to clean correctly
Failure to mix properly (see science comment)
Impatience (well...)
Inexperience (I keep lots to hand)

I usually try at least 3 of the above when I get my compressor out.
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Old 10-02-2018, 11:01 PM   #3
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Default Re: Lets talk PAINT!!

I just repaired some rust on my pickup. I sanded the bondo to 800 grit, dry. I used a high build primer and several coats of paint and clear. The sanding strokes still show through. Unbelievable!!!
The local tech high school has an adult -ed auto body class. I will INVEST the $400 next time it is offered!!
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Old 10-03-2018, 03:50 AM   #4
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Default Re: Lets talk PAINT!!

as usual prep' work is major part of result. then have reasonably sealed area/booth, no breezes, dust or bugs, warm, not humid or you'll get bloom and check water is vented / trapped from the airline /compressor. then you can think about design, masking. paint etc.
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Old 10-03-2018, 04:07 AM   #5
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Default Re: Lets talk PAINT!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomsoftail View Post
I just repaired some rust on my pickup. I sanded the bondo to 800 grit, dry. I used a high build primer and several coats of paint and clear. The sanding strokes still show through. Unbelievable!!!
The local tech high school has an adult -ed auto body class. I will INVEST the $400 next time it is offered!!
Did you use a sanding block? It's good for getting a surface straight but it's all too easy to apply too much pressure. And ALWAYS sand the primer, don't trust it to hide everything.

I use 1200 wet for the last prep before paint. Lots of water, hand only, light to very light pressure and circular motion. And as I learned in my early days, check and replace the paper often to make sure there are no built-up spots of removed primer goo on it. They will create invisible scratches. Invisible, that is, until after the paint has been applied.
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Old 10-03-2018, 05:32 AM   #6
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Default Re: Lets talk PAINT!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CookieMonster View Post
Well, why not, plenty of other paint threads if you look for them but everyone likes taking about paint. The painting process itself is science so itís a mistake to go about it like an artist. Do any imaginative stuff on paper in the house.

Problems at home:

Dust (use water mist)
Moisture (use a compressor water trap)
Heat (use an electric heater and guess work)
Bugs (choose the right time of day / year)
Light (get lots of it)
Cheap guns
Failure to clean correctly
Failure to mix properly (see science comment)
Impatience (well...)
Inexperience (I keep lots to hand)

I usually try at least 3 of the above when I get my compressor out.
For me, the priorities are:
  1. VERY good light, from all angles. I've managed to do decent jobs with a crappy gun but enough light. Don't even consider the opposite.
  2. Good gun with an adjustable - and even more important, predictable - spray pattern. For bike work, I'd recommend a gravity feed gun. It's nimbler, gets in anywhere and you can almost always fill it up with enough primer/paint/clear for the whole bike: frame, tank, oil tank, fender. And if you're not doing a frame (which is anyway the most paint consuming part, and trickiest to do as well), a good gravity gun is the only one you'll ever need. I paid an arm and a leg for mine decades ago and it's still functioning faultlessly. Delivering everything from a very-low-pressure cobweb pattern, to a low-pressure liquid primer and sealer to a high-pressure 'watered down' topcoat. I'd never use anything else.
  3. A compressor (actually, any air source - while young and pennyless I even used a large compressed air tank that I filled up once a week) with an adjustable and steady output, so a good quality pressure regulator is a must. It goes without saying that you have to have a water trap in-line as well.

Yes, it does help having a dedicated paint area, free of dust and bugs, but it's not necessarily an absolute requirement. For dust, just make sure the walls and floor are wet (if working outside, pour/spray liberally water on the ground/tarmac/whatever and hope for the best). Bugs are slightly more problematic if outdoors, particularly here in Malaysia, where they are irresistibly drawn to mass suicide by paint... This is where patience is of utmost importance: immediately after you've laid down a coat, drop the gun, pick up the Japanese style fan and fight the bugs until the layer is touch dry. Funny enough, I never used to have that problem in Sweden, though... Maybe because Swedish bugs have always been aware of acceptable behaviour in a socialist society...

I know, I'm probably preaching to the converted, but whenever/whatever you paint - always do a test surface as well. I start from a clean piece of sheet metal, typically 30x30cm (1ft x 1ft for you imperialists) and preferably with some curves and a sharp bend or two to simulate what I'm about to paint, and let it go through the same process as the rest of the parts. Smoothing down of any welds, thereafter bondo, primer, base coat, top coat(s), clear... Each step done on the test piece just before the actual parts.

Having said all this, I'd never, ever recommend doing a whole car at home. Not professionally, at least. Unless you have a hermetically sealed or over-pressurised chamber in which to do it.
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Old 10-03-2018, 01:15 PM   #7
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Default Re: Lets talk PAINT!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian meister View Post
I rarely see (though I admit I haven't been looking specifically) people discuss how to and what they use painting at home. Probably going to try my hand at a tank and some fenders over the winter. Done a little bit (I do mean LITTLE bit) of spraying, only solid colors, never any metal flake or anything fancy. Have access to a blast cabinet. What are your experiences and recommendations for painting at home? Costs, materials, set up's.....any and all input appreciated. Pics would be great too.
I paint at home and I have had great success doing so. I spray outside because I don't have the room for a spray booth so I am limited to only spraying in the summer when it is warm and dry enough. I use cellulose paint because I spray outside and I also don't have any special breathing apparatus to use 2pac paints. The problem with painting outside when it's not warm enough or the humidity is too high is that the paint will bloom (go milky in appearance) and it's a pain when that happens because you just waste time and have to work more on it.

In 2015 I decided to face lift my 1968 Triumph for a show and this included a new paint job. I wanted to use metal flake, partly because I love the retro look but also because I have never used it before and I always like a challenge.

I found a local shop to sell me the cellulose in the colours I needed and to also buy the metal flake. I use two type of thinners, a standard basically just for washing out the gun and a high gloss or premium thinners in the paint. I bought a cheap gun for the flake because I knew that no matter how well I cleaned the gun out when I had finished there would always be some flake in there waiting to spoil my next paint job, so it was a single use gun.

I layered up with a high build primer, through the black base, silver base for the flake and then the flake that I suspended in clear lacquer to shoot it. Then I left it for a couple of weeks before I started to clear coat it. I just kept layering on the clear coat until I got the finish I wanted and also I started with a thicker mix and worked my way to thinner when it was all leveled out.

I am not even close to being an expert on this subject but this is my experience and I was incredibly happy with the result I got. Here's a pic of the finished paint but it looks a whole lot shinier up close and this is the thread where I documented the paint process it starts about #190.

https://www.jockeyjournal.com/forum/...4954&showall=1



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Old 10-03-2018, 02:47 PM   #8
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Default Re: Lets talk PAINT!!

You can work around issues of ambient temperature, and moisture or absence of same, with reducer/extender additives that affect flashing and drying time. Too much or too strong a reducer will give you orangepeel, with extender the danger is runs.
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Old 10-03-2018, 05:30 PM   #9
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Default Re: Lets talk PAINT!!

I paint at home as well. Usually outside in the summer because I have the best results. Humidity is everything. You want a 72 to 75 degree day with very low humidity. I don't worry about bugs or such because I always expect to color sand and buff then polish.



How do you heat your shop in the winter??? Mine is heated with a wood stove so I don't even think about painting in there in the winter months because of the flammability of the paint and solvents. Is there an open flame any where in your shop. Make sure you extinguish it before painting.
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Old 10-03-2018, 08:39 PM   #10
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Default Re: Lets talk PAINT!!

Krylon or Rust O leum, works good for me.... I just shake the can and listen for the ball bearing to get loud and consistent.... then I point and shoot. Messy, but I get the color I picked out that is close enough to the color I decided to settle for, on most of where I want it. I can use a razor blade and cut the heavy drips off when they finally cure...
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Old 10-03-2018, 08:59 PM   #11
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Default Re: Lets talk PAINT!!

Nobody asked about airbrushing, but I just remembered this: Paasche and other mfgrs offer basic airbrush kits. Paasche's is good enough to get you started; I can't speak to the others. Point is, though, to paint on metal or other completely nonabsorbent surfaces, do not run pressure direct from the dinky compressor that comes with the kit (or directly from any compressor). Get a compressor that will fill a tank, and paint off what's in the tank. Otherwise you'll get a pulse effect that is highly visible in the paint you put down. This isn't a problem on illustration board, etc.: I guess it absorbs enough to not show the rapid-fire pulse from the compressor's piston.

For masking fine, wiggly, complicated shapes, instead of cutting tape or frisket with an X-Acto knife, you might try masking fluid. It's fairly thick, snotlike stuff -- like thin rubber cement -- that you can brush onto the surface. It removes easy with a finger or thumbnail when your subsequent coat of paint has dried.
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Old 10-04-2018, 03:00 AM   #12
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Default Re: Lets talk PAINT!!

mebe more applicable to car panels but you can use a mist coat of contrasting colour before flatting the primer, this will show up any surface unevenness , scratches etc.
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Old 10-04-2018, 05:05 PM   #13
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Default Re: Lets talk PAINT!!

I do my own paint work, but after having a scare with my lungs a few years back I have taken a different approach... for a start, now I always use a good quality respirator and get the heck out of the shop asap. The past couple of years I have gotten all my colour coats from spray bombs. Once I'm happy with that, I apply several coats of good quality automotive clear coat from the proper spray equipment...it protects the thinner paint underneath and looks just as good as a full on paint job.
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Old 10-06-2018, 11:46 AM   #14
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Default Re: Lets talk PAINT!!

I recently took a class in Auto Collision and Refinishing at our local Tech Collage. My goal was to be able to do my own work on my Indian projects. There are a thousand way to mess up a paint job and most are expensive lessons. A few points I'd like to add to the conversation.

1. Matched paint/brand/products all the way trough the job. If you send Eyegore out to shop for your supplies then expect Abbey-normal results. Brand A paint may never stick to Brand B primer in spite of the all the internet reviews saying it will work. It's call CROSS-LINKING, or the boding of different chemicals in the paint products.


2. Practice on old body parts and not the Patient. Easy to find throw-away body parts and hone you skill or test a spray out, It's cheaper in the long run to experiment a few times to get the correct result the 1st time.



3. Clean Clean Clean, all the way through the process, oil and grime left on part will never take paint, Get into cracks and creases too. No fuzzy sweaters in the paint booth unless you enjoy countless hours of buffing out paint. End result is worth the extra work in the end.



4. FIT before Finish, Bolt the parts/panels on before you make them look nice, this rule applies to ALL PARTS.
(Step not necessary if you enjoy repeating you work and spending money)



If you have any Q's just ask. Body and Paint working outdoors adds a few more challenges to the mix but it is not impossible if your taking the right steps to control as many environmental factors as you can. Like Heat and humidity, lighting , ect...
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Old 10-06-2018, 01:20 PM   #15
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Old 10-06-2018, 06:37 PM   #16
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Default Re: Lets talk PAINT!!

Somebody above mention he had sand scratches in his paint but had taken it down to 800 grit. if you rush body work and use old technology like lacquer primers and bondo over bondo that has only been worked with 36/40 grit, when the solvents evaporate every thing shrinks and the sand marks show back up. Sometimes it takes months to happen.
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Old 10-07-2018, 07:02 AM   #17
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Default Re: Lets talk PAINT!!

Horse hair brushes only, and the best rollers you can find at the local flea market. Latex paint dries fast and it easily peeled off, if you don't like it.

But seriously, it takes a course to teach you the basics or years of do and do over. I started with rattle cans, moved on to a cheap cup gun, then to better and better gravity guns. Start out with the basic one color jobs, and learn about using graduating grits, to achieve the final spray effect. And never give up. If you do, a good paint job will drive you back to the back yard, where the bugs, blowing wind will make you mad, but not as bad as a months paycheck for a medium job of paint from a shop that is only interested in the end result. CASH. Click image for larger version

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Keep the old Iron on the road....

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Old 10-07-2018, 10:51 AM   #18
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Default Re: Lets talk PAINT!!

Shovit!!! YOUR FLOOR IS DIRTY!!!
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Old 10-07-2018, 02:01 PM   #19
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Not only dirty, but dirt with carpet on top. I hate concrete. haha

Plus, the carpet is dirty, plus it is 20 years old, and the only reason it is still there, is because it is saturated with carbon filled and spilled HD 60wt oil. Some of the shop is concrete, but the main shop is nothing but carpeted dirt. Easy on the skid plates.

And, I love to be the one whos horse is being gored. Humor beats the hell out of drama. haha
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Keep the old Iron on the road....

42 UL long term project
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51 FLH short term project
60 Doc Dytch XLCH Drag only
61 XLCH parts bike
65 XLCH parts bike
66 FLH
68 XLCH parts bike
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69 XLH daily rider
70 XLH
72 XLH
72 C30 Chevy truck
73 FLH chopper(Shirley the Shovelhead) Daily rider
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Old 10-07-2018, 02:14 PM   #20
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Default Re: Lets talk PAINT!!

Great thread going here guys, let's keep it on point.
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