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Old 11-27-2018, 04:09 PM   #121
TATER
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Default Re: Slaughterhouse Sally 63 Pan

Its been quiet in TATERland so lets catch up....




WHAT THE FUCK ?!?

Ok, got that out of my system. I have come to the conclusion the everything on this bike either:


A. Must be repaired now



or


B. Will be repaired in the very near future.


The only difference between Option A and Option B what I have found already.


So the saga of cylinder heads is "to be continued" . They are in capable hands and I have to wait my turn. Here is a glimpse of only a minor portion of that abortion.

Rocker block hardware. Catch as catch can. WTF?





Mounting hole for exhaust. I found a carpet tack (you know, that wood strip that follows the baseboard for carpet, yeah...the one you step on) under the exhaust clamp. WTF? After that revelation, I noticed other heads on the WWW that had the same shit. Must be common. Another wonderful exhaust surprise, tho not an issue yet, is the old pipe rubbing the tranny (insert bad joke). Not sure if the "cut-out" is a factory idea or just the realities of poor craftsmanship and execution.




Axles for round swingers and disco brakes. There is another WTF. Searched for days and never found the definitive answer other than " I tried this and it seemed to work.". Factory early shovel was suggested as the correct item, nope 11/16"($15). Shovel square swinger axle was a no-go due to length(free, came with bike and buggered where spacers ride). Supposed Pan axle no good( length and bent. $25). I finaly settled for a springer front axle. Good length and pretty acorn nuts($40). Of course I expect that one to bend after the first speed bump.




So while ol' sally has been riding the lift, I have had plenty of time to chain smoke and find all kinds of WTFs.



Pistons a little loose in the bore. No problem. 0.050" now and might clean up to 0.060".


Noticed some seepage at timing plug and sprocket seal when turning her over. You guessed it...timing plug stripped. But what about the seal? I scratched my head with nicotine stained fingers and looking into oil tank. WTF, where has the oil gone to ? D'oh ! Into the case, I assume. Oil pump check valve has the be the culprit.


Checking other spots for balls/screens and we find locked down oil screen plug on the case. Had to get out the weapons on that one.



Impact driver bit turned into a propeller shape. Next up, pneumatic impact with draglink bit. No sweat..can be turned down to nothing and I eased into some pressure and with 1 "brap" its loose.





I have plenty more "WTFs" on the way.
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Old 11-27-2018, 04:27 PM   #122
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Default Re: Slaughterhouse Sally 63 Pan

Hey Tater, your pics aren't showing, just the dreaded black X.
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Old 11-27-2018, 04:30 PM   #123
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Default Re: Slaughterhouse Sally 63 Pan

Don't worry about the tack strip, I use it on all my builds.
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Old 11-27-2018, 04:49 PM   #124
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Default Re: Slaughterhouse Sally 63 Pan

Some people pin exhausts in place. Not that uncommon. It may well be related to the rub spot on your trans... the pipe may have been pinned in place to keep it from rotating by a rural engineer.

I know you feel overwhelmed right now, but this is the sort of stuff you find on a bike that's passed through several sets of hands. It's genuinely, really not as bad as it could be. It ain't great, but with some work you can set all this right.

The check ball is not a huge deal at all. There's a fella making a really nice tool you can get on Cycle Dope that restores that seat. Add a new spring and a ball and you've got that problem licked.

The axle is just going to be a case of finding the right piece and making some spacers. Fiddly and time-consuming, but no biggie.

The timing plug may be a bit of a bitch. I assume you know the right way to fix that, but if you don't want to do that, I wonder if running shop air into the case might allow you to use a bottoming tap and recut some threads for an oversized plug.

Anyone ever do that?

And while the manual doesn't say to use an NPT plug in there, it's been done many times over the years with great success. Food for thought.
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Old 11-27-2018, 04:53 PM   #125
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Default Re: Slaughterhouse Sally 63 Pan

govemule84, how do you pin an exhaust?
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Old 11-27-2018, 06:27 PM   #126
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Default Re: Slaughterhouse Sally 63 Pan

Drill the port, drill the pipe, and slide (or press or hammer!) something in as a dowel to prevent rotational motion.

Harley did the same thing on manifold nipples from the factory on Knuckles and Pans; probably where the guy got the idea.

You'll see fins drilled and springs used to do (sort of) the same thing.
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Old 11-27-2018, 07:28 PM   #127
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Default Re: Slaughterhouse Sally 63 Pan

Got it, thanks!
Seen the drilled fins and springs on the old dirt bikes we played with.
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Old 11-28-2018, 06:25 AM   #128
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Default Re: Slaughterhouse Sally 63 Pan

Question....


The plug/bolt between lifter blocks... screen and filter belong there ?
Right now there is only the plug.




This is the kind of shit I'm getting twisted over. I have receipts for PO's engine "rebuild". I starting to believe the paperwork is fiction rather than fact. I get it. Owner says to mechanic, "just do enough so I can sell it". Mechanic sacrifices his principles (if he had any) due to lack of billable hours.

My biggest concern is has the bottom end been done properly. Time will tell.
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Old 11-28-2018, 07:19 AM   #129
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Default Re: Slaughterhouse Sally 63 Pan

couple of different styles of pre filters were used in the pan blocks before and after hydraulic lifters but - you need the block date code inside the cases as everything we see today is blended the numbers usually don't match the out side whats inside or the bottom numbers


having said that picture the plug nut that comes out is the screwhead top short or thick
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Old 11-28-2018, 06:27 PM   #130
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Default Re: Slaughterhouse Sally 63 Pan

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Originally Posted by johnjzjz View Post
couple of different styles of pre filters were used in the pan blocks before and after hydraulic lifters but - you need the block date code inside the cases as everything we see today is blended the numbers usually don't match the out side whats inside or the bottom numbers


having said that picture the plug nut that comes out is the screwhead top short or thick



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Old 11-28-2018, 06:43 PM   #131
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Default Re: Slaughterhouse Sally 63 Pan

Back to piston slop.


Removed pistons/jugs. Front was the worst. Back not too bad.












Interesting spin of scoring at base of cylinders.




Dimensions:


Front Jug 3.484
Front Piston 3.473


Rear Jug 3.478
Rear Piston. 3.475


So we have the rear not so bad and the front is jacked. Dig out the dial indicator to check rod shake.


Front Rod 0.040 measured at top of rod, above pin bore.
Rear Rod 0.015 measured same.
Thats with crank at bottom to help eliminate false readings. I realize the front rod would typically have a little more shake but seems excessive.



Question.....is that too much shake at the front and would that cause the funky scoring of jugs ?
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Old 11-28-2018, 06:54 PM   #132
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Default Re: Slaughterhouse Sally 63 Pan

Is the rod straight and square to the case?
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Old 11-28-2018, 06:58 PM   #133
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Default Re: Slaughterhouse Sally 63 Pan

Oh, yeah... more WTF.


What the fuck is this tab for? If I remove it will the Pan Police arrest me and send me to Siberia?





What the fuck would someone dent the oil tank to make it fit?



No spacers between battery plate and frame. Front or back. Would the spacers lift the front of tank enough to clear or does everyone take a hammer and "massage" it into place?
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Old 11-28-2018, 07:11 PM   #134
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Default Re: Slaughterhouse Sally 63 Pan

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Is the rod straight and square to the case?

Metal ruler laid up against base studs, wrist pin in and measures really close. Off by a thou or two. I would say square.
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Old 11-28-2018, 07:15 PM   #135
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Default Re: Slaughterhouse Sally 63 Pan

Jug bases. Real deal or knockoffs ?






Notice the "clean up" at the spigots ?
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Old 11-28-2018, 07:25 PM   #136
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Default Re: Slaughterhouse Sally 63 Pan

I did have one thing go right this weekend.


While go thru the "hoard" I found a gas cap cover purchased years ago. Wasnt aluminum nor lead. Maybe a lead/tin hybrid of sorts. Anyway...curved to fit gas cap and I says to myself " Hmm, wonder if it will fit over the tail light ?". Lo and behold, it does. So like any god fearing man who doesnt have enough scars on his hands, I go at it with mini hacksaw and mini file.


Feast your eyes






I will take any victory at this point, be it large or small.
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Old 11-28-2018, 08:44 PM   #137
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Default Re: Slaughterhouse Sally 63 Pan

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There isn't a filter or any kind of screen for that screw, that's for the overhead oiler. The filter should be under the plug that is in the bottom left side of your first picture.

Also that tab is for the throttle cable.
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Old 11-29-2018, 05:43 AM   #138
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Default Re: Slaughterhouse Sally 63 Pan

Those marks in the jugs have me thinking Id check the rollers in the cases. Only way I can think of for a piston to turn in the bore is if the rods have lots of slop or crank is sloppy in the case.

Looks like the piston is moving weirdly as the forces applied are some how moving out of alignment towards the bottom of the stroke. I know what Im thinking but having a hard time communicating.
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Old 11-29-2018, 06:16 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by JAWS View Post
Those marks in the jugs have me thinking Id check the rollers in the cases. Only way I can think of for a piston to turn in the bore is if the rods have lots of slop or crank is sloppy in the case.

Looks like the piston is moving weirdly as the forces applied are some how moving out of alignment towards the bottom of the stroke. I know what Im thinking but having a hard time communicating.



Im thinking the same thing. If wheels are slightly off square or pinion/sprocket are a bit off then "something" would rotate in misalignment.
Then again, case bearings could be at fault. Maybe a combo of many little things. Thats the Sally way.
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Old 11-29-2018, 06:45 AM   #140
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Default Re: Slaughterhouse Sally 63 Pan

what the screw and the top fitting is your engine block is a top oiler that came along at the end of the panhead era 1963 to 1965 only had that


the jugs did not see the top but besides the bolt holes one larger hole would be that drain back for the heads = if a smaller hole is in the top and the base they are pan head internal oiling engine cylinder


the top end oiling you might have - must be picked up from the oil pressure switch on the oil pump and that original pump was a cast iron type 1967 last year iron pump but might have been converted to the alloy type


you need a gray hair to help you identify what they did and if its correct - it could be


the pistons with the black coating on the Taiwanese pistons is bull it sheds no matter who does the cylinders - TODAY cast pistons need .003 to run air cooled correctly in the bores - they are actually not that bad being in the south like you are with the heat and todays gas
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