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Old 04-18-2018, 05:16 PM   #1
[JP]
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Default Timing a 68 genny.. I'm confused!

Hi all...


I'm double checking the timing on the 68 and I'm a bit confused by the manual.

On my cone I have a TDC and an advance timing mark on the flywheel.
I usually time on the advance timing mark and hold the cam in the advance position and turn plate till light between points and ground comes on.
Dead easy, works spot on every time.

On the 68 there's only one marking for TDC on the flywheel. So I was thinking use that timing mark, do the same using the light but not hold the cam in the advance position, as there's no advance timing mark on the flywheel.

However.. the following on the manual is confusing me, the paragraph where I'm pointing at.
do they mean hold the cam in the advance position?
So.. put the flywheel marking on TDC (as there's no other), hold the cam in the advance position and then turn the whole thing till I get the light coming on??





thanks!
JP
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Old 04-18-2018, 09:19 PM   #2
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Default Re: Timing a 68 genny.. I'm confused!

Try this out, sorry if you already have this. The text looks different from what you posted. Page 197.
https://justpanhead.com/wp-content/u...ice-Manual.pdf
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Old 04-18-2018, 09:28 PM   #3
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Default Re: Timing a 68 genny.. I'm confused!

Wait what? There is an advance mark.
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Old 04-18-2018, 09:37 PM   #4
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Default Re: Timing a 68 genny.. I'm confused!

Here. Find these.
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Old 04-19-2018, 03:42 AM   #5
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Default Re: Timing a 68 genny.. I'm confused!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Motor2Wheel View Post
Try this out, sorry if you already have this. The text looks different from what you posted. Page 197.
https://justpanhead.com/wp-content/u...ice-Manual.pdf
nop.. I have that manual printed as well, says exactly the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAWS View Post
Here. Find these.
Yep, I know those markings as I use them for my shovel.
It's dead simple and easy, that's why I'm confused with what the manual says. or is probably me just being a foreigner reading English hahaha

Engine on compression stroke, keep rotating and you should get a BTDC mark first and the TDC mark coming after.

According to the photo diagram, I should have a line coming up first, this would be BTDC....and a dot after, which would be TDC. (same as my cone)

However... I have 2 lines. the first one is a thin line, the second one is kind of a fat one.
Unless the dot is after the second line? but as I never seen a 2nd line, I just thought WTF?? - and came on here crying

Need to check again this evening then.
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Old 04-19-2018, 09:59 AM   #6
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Default Re: Timing a 68 genny.. I'm confused!

If you have two lines you have 63- flywheels for a dual point timer. One line is for the rear cylinder which you ignore.
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Old 04-19-2018, 11:41 AM   #7
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Default Re: Timing a 68 genny.. I'm confused!

You have a mechanical advance treat it just as you would a cone. What you pointed out is just telling you manual or mechanical is adjusted at full advance.
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Old 04-19-2018, 12:52 PM   #8
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Default Re: Timing a 68 genny.. I'm confused!

The thin lines I belive have an F and an R next to them. For the dual point. Look really close. In fact set up a light and your phone and video the wheel as you roll it slowly. Make sure it is clean of oil too. Then watch your movie.
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Old 04-19-2018, 03:01 PM   #9
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Default Re: Timing a 68 genny.. I'm confused!

Correct me if I am wrong, but the old school way, is like it says on Joe Hunt installation instructions here.

file:///C:/Users/pc/Pictures/My%20Pictures/Big%20Twin%20and%20Sportster%20tech%20info/BT%20mag%20installation%20Hunt%20Mag/1274_installation_instructions.pdf

Now, for the detail they mention on the Sportster installation instructions, but not on the early Shovelhead instructions. Read my instructions here....READ TO THE BOTTOM BEFORE DOING THIS SO YOU GET THE FULL INSTRUCTIONS BEFORE STARTING

Get a dial indicator, in decimal inches. Zero out, and put the dial at .4375(or 7/16ths). Now, on the front cylinder, rotate it until you are close to TDC, as you get close, use a wood dowel to make sure the piston is moving up, and getting close to the .4375 depth, or BTDC. When you get to the .4375, measured with the dial indicator, you will be close to the needed 30 to 35 degree BTDC and where the advance mark is supposed to be. Go the the edge of the piston, closest to the cylinder wall, not the dome, and from the outside edge of the spark plug hole. After that, lock down the mag, and test kick. I always collapse the front intake pushrod cover, to make sure it is loose(rotates between fingers on solids, or that it is moving down to close the valve, in hydraulic lifters.) This will ensure that you are on the right stroke, or coming up to TDC on the front piston. this method will get you to the advance position on the mag. Not retarded.


You can also do this by moving the piston to TDC, and reversing the motor, but it is less effective because the lash in the cam gear will lose a few degrees, or more. so, I always move motor in direction of rotation, and use the dowel, with a mark at one inch, to stop there and then use the dial indicator to finish the upward movement. Just be careful not to bend your dial indicator stick.
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Last edited by shovithead; 04-19-2018 at 03:04 PM. Reason: additionalinformationneededtobeaccurate
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Old 04-19-2018, 10:44 PM   #10
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Default Re: Timing a 68 genny.. I'm confused!

Always run through the basics...... because you know the answer.
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Last edited by JAWS; 04-19-2018 at 11:18 PM.
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Old 04-20-2018, 04:01 AM   #11
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Default Re: Timing a 68 genny.. I'm confused!

Quote:
Originally Posted by shovithead View Post
Correct me if I am wrong, but the old school way, is like it says on Joe Hunt installation instructions here.

file:///C:/Users/pc/Pictures/My%20Pictures/Big%20Twin%20and%20Sportster%20tech%20info/BT%20mag%20installation%20Hunt%20Mag/1274_installation_instructions.pdf

Now, for the detail they mention on the Sportster installation instructions, but not on the early Shovelhead instructions. Read my instructions here....READ TO THE BOTTOM BEFORE DOING THIS SO YOU GET THE FULL INSTRUCTIONS BEFORE STARTING

Get a dial indicator, in decimal inches. Zero out, and put the dial at .4375(or 7/16ths). Now, on the front cylinder, rotate it until you are close to TDC, as you get close, use a wood dowel to make sure the piston is moving up, and getting close to the .4375 depth, or BTDC. When you get to the .4375, measured with the dial indicator, you will be close to the needed 30 to 35 degree BTDC and where the advance mark is supposed to be. Go the the edge of the piston, closest to the cylinder wall, not the dome, and from the outside edge of the spark plug hole. After that, lock down the mag, and test kick. I always collapse the front intake pushrod cover, to make sure it is loose(rotates between fingers on solids, or that it is moving down to close the valve, in hydraulic lifters.) This will ensure that you are on the right stroke, or coming up to TDC on the front piston. this method will get you to the advance position on the mag. Not retarded.


You can also do this by moving the piston to TDC, and reversing the motor, but it is less effective because the lash in the cam gear will lose a few degrees, or more. so, I always move motor in direction of rotation, and use the dowel, with a mark at one inch, to stop there and then use the dial indicator to finish the upward movement. Just be careful not to bend your dial indicator stick.

Hey Shovithead,
Could you post your PDF again... I'd like to have a look at it.

Thanks
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Old 04-20-2018, 04:24 AM   #12
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Default Re: Timing a 68 genny.. I'm confused!

So I had a look, went by measuring the piston. at least I know its right.

but... in terms of marks..... what the hell is the second mark?

I have 3 marks.
2 lines and one dot.
1st line is BTDC - There's no Fs or Rs to be seen anywhere.
2nd line is... fk knows...
3rd is the dot which is TDC

anyone seen any marks like my second? what the hell is a double line?? never seen this anywhere...

1st line - BTDC (Where I have timed it by holding the cam on the advance position, dead easy)



2nd marking.. a double line??


3rd line.. the dot.
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Old 04-20-2018, 09:53 AM   #13
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Default Re: Timing a 68 genny.. I'm confused!

Some will think Im nuts..... the double lines are probably a cross through over that blemish so it cant be confused with the TDC dot.


Reason I say that is, if it wasn't there you would have the standard early flywheel markings.
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Old 04-20-2018, 10:16 AM   #14
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Default Re: Timing a 68 genny.. I'm confused!

yep.. the markings on my 76 cone are pretty clear... if you rock it back on the compression stroke (as soon as pushrod hits bottom) you can see a big dot, then rotate forward you get the line first (BTDC) and then the low down dot (TDC)

so this means these flywheels are not standard?
could be... when I opened the engine, the pistons were +0.40... maybe something happened to it before coming to me.
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Old 04-20-2018, 10:41 AM   #15
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Default Re: Timing a 68 genny.. I'm confused!

Dot is retard timing front cylinder, 5 deg before TDC. Don't know about double line.
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Old 04-20-2018, 10:51 AM   #16
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Default Re: Timing a 68 genny.. I'm confused!

if the dot is 5deg before TDC... that doesnt match the usual diagrams where it says the low down dot is TDC...

I'm just curious at this point. it has been timed on the first line as BTDC or advance mark. why the hell they call it 2 different names I dont know.

the 2 lines are a mistery. could well be a blemish or something. I'm going to go with something. lol
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Old 04-20-2018, 02:45 PM   #17
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Default Re: Timing a 68 genny.. I'm confused!



Should say, 5deg retarded timing mark for front cylinder, advanced mark for rear cylinder, and tdc. These from cone Shovel manual.
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Old 04-20-2018, 02:52 PM   #18
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Default Re: Timing a 68 genny.. I'm confused!

I'll look at a older manual, later. I'm thinking the double line is advance timing on rear cylinder with manual timing at 28 deg.
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Old 04-20-2018, 02:55 PM   #19
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Default Re: Timing a 68 genny.. I'm confused!

Look above at nmainron's post. Double line was only used about 3 years, and my research shows this to be true. Only other double line is on the XL's. So you have 63 wheels or a set of XL wheels...NOT. So since you have confirmed where the advance is, using my 7/16 measurement, use that to time on 35 degree advance, otherwise known as BTDC. The other solution is to put correct wheels in it. Which cost more than using my method.
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Old 04-20-2018, 11:30 PM   #20
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Default Re: Timing a 68 genny.. I'm confused!


This is from a Panhead SM. This answers the 2 lines.
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