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Old 01-03-2018, 08:33 PM   #1
curtisvitoria
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Default Genny Shovel Clutch question

My shovel will be sitting for some time as I will be moving back to my 50 pan.
1966 Shovel had a 1.5 inch Primo with the Pro clutch, I scavenged the pro clutch for my pan and assembled the Shovel with the Primo set up but swapped in my old 3 finger Pan clutch. Got all back together and adjusted.

Problem is.....
clutch lever is rock sold and won't disengage or move the springs at all. I pulled it all apart and it seems the clutch push rod only moves 1/4 inch if I put my finger on it and pull lever with the hand.

I also measured the discs compared to the pro clutch discs and replacement clutch disc stack is 1/2 inch thicker.

Ideas? Thanks
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Old 01-03-2018, 09:44 PM   #2
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Default Re: Genny Shovel Clutch question

I dont understand what you are saying about only moving 1/4”.

You changed nothing but the clutch setup? Same shaft and pushrod and kicker cover and throwout?
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Old 01-03-2018, 10:04 PM   #3
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Yeah just the clutch, and the fingers(hub), Rivera Primo basket.
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Old 01-03-2018, 11:21 PM   #4
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Default Re: Genny Shovel Clutch question

Well I started from scratch and adjusted the rod screw till it seated, 1/4 turn back and seated the nut. Attempted to adjust cable and ran out of thread, looked up at the lever and cable had slack, makes no sense. Did I do something to the doddering the replacement?
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Old 01-04-2018, 12:27 AM   #5
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Default Re: Genny Shovel Clutch question

Maybe not the answer here, but why can't I see your clutch hub nut?
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Old 01-04-2018, 02:11 AM   #6
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Default Re: Genny Shovel Clutch question

Check your throwout bearing behind the kicker cover sometimes they shift out of place if you remove the rod.
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Old 01-04-2018, 03:38 AM   #7
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Default Re: Genny Shovel Clutch question

Ok I will look tomorrow, thanks!
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Old 01-04-2018, 03:39 AM   #8
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Default Re: Genny Shovel Clutch question

Clutch hub nut is there.
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Old 01-04-2018, 04:21 AM   #9
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Default Re: Genny Shovel Clutch question

Quote:
Originally Posted by FredoTwoWheels View Post
Check your throwout bearing behind the kicker cover sometimes they shift out of place if you remove the rod.
I'm with Fredo.
on a genny, if no one been playing in there before, it's a witchs hat bearing in the kicker cover, and if the pushrod is pulled from the other side, which might have happened when you took the clutch hub out and the rod was sticking the nut seal, the hat will fall out of place and get jammed between the rod and the kicker cover.

I have put my gearbox together on my genny recently and was a right pain to get the kicker cover back on and the friking hat in place.. not sure if there's some technique to do so, but i managed by having one finger through the oil filler hole.
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Old 01-04-2018, 06:03 AM   #10
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Default Re: Genny Shovel Clutch question

Quote:
Originally Posted by curtisvitoria View Post
Clutch hub nut is there.
Ok. Must have been a weird angle; just wanted to verify things were on the bike as God and Harley-Davidson intended.

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Originally Posted by [JP] View Post
I'm with Fredo.
on a genny, if no one been playing in there before, it's a witchs hat bearing in the kicker cover, and if the pushrod is pulled from the other side, which might have happened when you took the clutch hub out and the rod was sticking the nut seal, the hat will fall out of place and get jammed between the rod and the kicker cover.

I have put my gearbox together on my genny recently and was a right pain to get the kicker cover back on and the friking hat in place.. not sure if there's some technique to do so, but i managed by having one finger through the oil filler hole.
I do mine the same way. I also think it helps to check for operation after the kicker cover is in place; saves you from getting everything together and then finding out the fucking thing is still partially jammed up. Hold it on with two or three nuts, and let your finger pressure act as the "spring" for the primary side of the clutch pushrod and verify your clutch arm has its full range of travel.

If you pop your pressure plate and springs off now, removing the load from the clutch arm, do you have proper travel?
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Old 01-04-2018, 09:38 AM   #11
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Default Re: Genny Shovel Clutch question

Looks like your clutch cable is adjusted to short, by how far out your clutch adjusting bolt is. Loosen your clutch cable, till you can bottom the throw out bearing in the kicker cover, then back it out one turn, then adjust clutch cable free play and lock nut the adjuster after your clutch is adjusted with the clutch screw only.
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Old 01-04-2018, 12:41 PM   #12
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Default Re: Genny Shovel Clutch question

It's my understanding that the adjuster nut ought to be locked down before even touching the cable.

If proper clutch action cannot be had after the clutch is adjusted correctly, is not the cable at fault? (Collapsed housing or something?)
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Old 01-04-2018, 01:53 PM   #13
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Default Re: Genny Shovel Clutch question

The pictures posted were before adjustment were made, just to show the set up with the Primo basket and clutch set up.

JP thanks for the info, this actually seems to make the most sense with the symptoms. I pulled the filler cap off and there is a slight movement of the throw out when I move the level/cable. And yes... it feels like something is jammed up.
I am going to pull the kicker cover off and see whats going on in there.
When I replaced the Clutch the rod was left in place. I greased the inner seal on the clutch hub nut so that it would slide nice over the rod when the nut was put on the spline. I'm thinking now maybe it pushed the rod hard enough to knock something out of whack on the kicker side.
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Old 01-04-2018, 04:12 PM   #14
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Really, pressure on the pushrod is going to keep everything together. It's removing it that can let the throwout fall. I've never had it happen though. I'm leaning towards adjustment. If your cable is slack it's not going to work, there isn't much throw to the pushrod, everything's gotta be right.
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Old 01-04-2018, 04:15 PM   #15
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Default Re: Genny Shovel Clutch question

Quote:
Originally Posted by [JP] View Post
I'm with Fredo.
on a genny, if no one been playing in there before, it's a witchs hat bearing in the kicker cover, and if the pushrod is pulled from the other side, which might have happened when you took the clutch hub out and the rod was sticking the nut seal, the hat will fall out of place and get jammed between the rod and the kicker cover.

I have put my gearbox together on my genny recently and was a right pain to get the kicker cover back on and the friking hat in place.. not sure if there's some technique to do so, but i managed by having one finger through the oil filler hole.
pushing your kicker right down lets it slot back in much more easily.

What I've always done anyway!

Agree with these though, check the throw out, check how much free play you have as well.
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Old 01-04-2018, 05:22 PM   #16
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We'll nothing out or the ordinary, release bearing intact, and fork in good shape, ran the rod on a drill, runs true. I guess put it back together and see.
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Old 01-04-2018, 05:44 PM   #17
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Default Re: Genny Shovel Clutch question

The witch hat rides on the main shaft 1/2 of the kicker ratchet and should not fall off. The later washer flat bearing style are notorious for coming off. Your one post said you ran out of cable adjuster which is a symptom of the late throw out having come off.
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Old 01-04-2018, 07:02 PM   #18
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Default Re: Genny Shovel Clutch question

Well I think I figured it out, hopefully.......

I put it back together with damn near the same result.

This time when I adjusted the clutch rod bolt and felt it seat, I figured I'd go further to allow the rod to go further back, it kept going then got tight. I backed it off then re-seated the rod. Looks like the threads on the old adjuster bolt made it feel like the rod was seating.

I'm also convinced the Primo basket has more depth to make up for the thinner Primo clutch plates, The combination of the thicker basket and the thicker plates I used made the adjuster have to go in that much deeper if that makes sense.....

I still think I need a shorter cable, as this one may be stretched , however my clutch now disengages and feels normal. I have to put the pipes back on and refill the trans. then fire it up, will keep you posted.

Thanks for the kicker arm tip when putting the cover back on, went on first crack with fork staying in the bearing (witches hat).
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Old 01-04-2018, 09:22 PM   #19
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Default Re: Genny Shovel Clutch question

Runs and works!

Thanks fo all the input!!!!!!!
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Old 01-05-2018, 01:58 PM   #20
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Default Re: Genny Shovel Clutch question

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Originally Posted by curtisvitoria View Post
Runs and works!

Thanks fo all the input!!!!!!!
Result! enjoy!
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