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that_stupid_kydd 10-14-2011 03:41 PM

deformed bolt head
 

while trying to remove the bolt that keeps the pedal on my kicker arm i deformed the head something fierce,vice grips wouldn't work so i got out a cut off wheel and cut a slot in the top to use a screwdriver but that didn't work so i then shaved the bolt head into a square hoping i could then use a smaller size wrench on it and remove it but it's just rounding it more. i don't have easy outs but i could always go buy some if thats my last resort but i'd rather not have to spend more money then i have too. any help would be greatly appreciated

sixball 10-14-2011 03:48 PM

Re: deformed bolt head
 

Try some PB Blaster and let it soak onto the threads for about an hour. Obviously it's stuck, so I'd attack the "stuck" factor first before damaging anymore of the end of the bolt.

Then maybe with another slot and a screwdriver and alight tap on the end of the screwdriver you can get it to loosen


Sixball

lackluster 10-14-2011 03:49 PM

Re: deformed bolt head
 

Whenever you have a stuck bolt, a screwdriver isn't your best bet, you can't get any leverage with a screw driver. Since you cut the slot into it you should have used an impact driver with the right sized screw driver bit in it. At this point since it's all ground down, your best bet would be to find a nut the right size and weld it through the center to whats left of the head of the bolt. The heat will help loosen it up, plus you'll have a nice clean nut that you can get a wrench on.

Unkl Ian 10-14-2011 03:52 PM

Re: deformed bolt head
 

Weld a nut on the bolt.

worn 10-14-2011 04:01 PM

Re: deformed bolt head
 

Or just try heating it with a propane torch, see if it will break free.

that_stupid_kydd 10-14-2011 04:07 PM

Re: deformed bolt head
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unkl Ian (Post 770792)
Weld a nut on the bolt.

this was my inital thought but i don't own a welder and when i called up my friend that does own one he's out of gas

Unkl Ian 10-14-2011 04:08 PM

Re: deformed bolt head
 

Time to buy some good tools.

that_stupid_kydd 10-14-2011 04:22 PM

Re: deformed bolt head
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unkl Ian (Post 770805)
Time to buy some good tools.

i'm 20 years old,lost my job due to the economy and am trying to find an apprenticeship with no luck so i'm kind of limited to the tools i have

Drew71 10-14-2011 04:39 PM

Re: deformed bolt head
 

+1 on heating it up, propane is your friend. penetrating oil, kerosene, keep at it and be patient, if it ain't budging let it sit then try heat again later, you will get it.

gapwelder 10-14-2011 04:49 PM

Re: deformed bolt head
 

Grind a small notch in the side of the bolt head. Use a small chisel in the side of the notch and tap sideways in the direction to loosen it.

worn 10-14-2011 04:53 PM

Re: deformed bolt head
 

Sell the bike and get your money back (what, $500 - 750?). Buy some good quality basic tools and start building from scratch. Otherwise I think you're in for a lot of frustration.

swooshdave 10-14-2011 04:58 PM

Re: deformed bolt head
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by worn (Post 770819)
Sell the bike and get your money back (what, $500 - 750?). Buy some good quality basic tools and start building from scratch. Otherwise I think you're in for a lot of frustration.

Great suggestion. :rolleyes:

Stuck bolt doesn't care if your tools are awesome. It's still stuck.

Dr. Benway 10-14-2011 05:09 PM

Re: deformed bolt head
 

I think that project is cursed.
Time to call in a Catholic priest.

'59 10-14-2011 05:47 PM

Re: deformed bolt head
 

i think we've all been in that situation or close at some point in our learning curve; is there no one local to that kydd that can give him a hand?

sh*t, i knowlots of the tips and short cuts I learntwer from older hands.

kydd; if nothing comes along find your local small engineers work shop, garage. Tell them your problem, be courteous and deffo' not pushy you maybe suprised.

Stinky Pete 10-14-2011 06:02 PM

Re: deformed bolt head
 

Cut/drill the head off the bolt and punch it out. Also heat, as mentioned.

gapwelder 10-14-2011 07:04 PM

Re: deformed bolt head
 

Ok, I didn't describe my method very well, maybe a picture will help. If there is enough material on the bolt head this should work. Make a notch on the side of the bolt head. Just enough for the chisel tip to bite into. Take a hammer and tap it to the left. The hammering action will shake it loose as well as unscrew it. The hammer will also make the chisel bite harder. I have used this method in the field when resources were limited with good results. You have to use a chisel, a screwdriver as a chisel will not work.
http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/IMG_0825.jpg

CB550 Matt 10-14-2011 07:48 PM

Re: deformed bolt head
 

2 fast tips with a BSA

1) it is an old bike .. pb blaster it before you try ... let it sit in for a good while and then try to get it out ...

if it does not come loose ..

2) Pb blast it again and let it sit for a week then try . .... worked more than a few times for me

BSA's get pricey fast so an a65 might not be your best option for a build.

Loffer 10-14-2011 07:52 PM

Re: deformed bolt head
 

2 Attachment(s)
or go buy a ten dollar roll of flux core mig wire and weld the nut on , it works better for small welders anyway. Just another option Kydd. Dont those kickers bolt on like a Triumph? If they do you cut off the nut and knock the pin out. new ones are like $10.00

totalgearhead 10-14-2011 10:33 PM

Re: deformed bolt head
 

Always surprises me with rounded off heads, for 10+ years I have used the tool for the job. As long as you have proper access, use a pipe wrench! That biatch bites harder the more you lean on it and are cheap/common in various sizes.

Learned mostly from working with alot of capscrews that would not budge. Forget visegrips, they just slip.

Unkl Ian 10-14-2011 10:57 PM

Re: deformed bolt head
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by swooshdave (Post 770821)

Stuck bolt doesn't care if your tools are awesome. It's still stuck.

Cheap/Shitty tools are more likely to
round off a bolt head, even if it isn't stuck.

Decent quality tools fit better, and are made from better material.

Cheap no name EZ Outs are almost guaranteed to break.

Good brand name EZ Outs, used correctly,
are probably successful 9 times out of 10.

michaelbarry 10-14-2011 11:48 PM

Re: deformed bolt head
 

What gapwelder said. That method + heating beforehand has always worked good for me.

govmule84 10-15-2011 12:29 AM

Re: deformed bolt head
 

I've had great luck with brake fluid as a penetrant.

And when you can, soak shit in water. Drop the whole mess in. I read about a gunsmith who used to do this, and figured he was retarded - until I tried it.

I think I would also try to grind two flats opposite each other to give either a wrench or a set of Vise-Grips something meaty to bite onto.

And I really love that welding idea - that one's gotten me out of a few pickles.

cashbur 10-15-2011 12:33 AM

Re: deformed bolt head
 

Cut the head off and drill it out.

CarlLaFong 10-15-2011 12:51 AM

Re: deformed bolt head
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loffer (Post 770891)
or go buy a ten dollar roll of flux core mig wire

What's he supposed to do? Hold the end of the wire next to the kicker?

Dan Boy 10-15-2011 05:50 AM

Re: deformed bolt head
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlLaFong (Post 770960)
What's he supposed to do? Hold the end of the wire next to the kicker?

No, take it to his mate who has a gas-less mig!

Dan Boy 10-15-2011 05:53 AM

Re: deformed bolt head
 

I have this week had 2 bolts that the head was screwed on. I drilled the head off the bolt to get the cover off and then found that the bolt was then finger loose in the thread so I just wound it out with my fingers.

Your lesson here is don't start a job you don't have the tools to finish. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Cheers Dan.

Dan Boy 10-15-2011 07:17 AM

Re: deformed bolt head
 

Oh yeh, if you are going to drill the head off the bolt remember to centre punch it first, if you've not got one, go borrow one before you make a bad situation worse.

Remember the 6 P's analogy...

Cheers Dan.

old.wrench 10-15-2011 01:41 PM

Re: deformed bolt head
 

The kydd said he's trying to remove the bolt that holds the kicker pedal on. That bolt threads down into the kicker arm, so there ain't goin' to be any cutting off the head and driving it out. I would remove the kicker arm and clamp it in a vice so its held securely and you can work on it efficiently. Its going to take some heat and penetrant to loosen it, probably several cycles of heating and cooling to break the little mother free. Put the heat where it'll do some good, down where the threads are. You don't have to heat it up red hot, but you do need to get it hot. Start out at a lower heat maybe 500-600 degrees(use your imagination, I'm sure you don't have an infra-red temp gun!!!), so you can save your chrome on the kick arm. You can always increase the heat later. Make sure you let it cool down to room temp between cycles (don't cool it with water!). You want to use plenty of penetrant (the best stuff I ever used was a mixture of ATF and acetone but there are plenty of them on the market). Another thing that works is the old blacksmith trick, bees wax. Heat up the frozen connection and then take some bees wax and apply it to stubborn bolt or stud. The heat will melt the wax and pull it down into the frozen threads. Frozen threads are something you have to be patient with. You have to outwit them, rather than beat them into submission with brute strength :D.

Regards,
Geo.

that_stupid_kydd 10-15-2011 03:55 PM

Re: deformed bolt head
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by old.wrench (Post 771035)
The kydd said he's trying to remove the bolt that holds the kicker pedal on. That bolt threads down into the kicker arm, so there ain't goin' to be any cutting off the head and driving it out. I would remove the kicker arm and clamp it in a vice so its held securely and you can work on it efficiently. Its going to take some heat and penetrant to loosen it, probably several cycles of heating and cooling to break the little mother free. Put the heat where it'll do some good, down where the threads are. You don't have to heat it up red hot, but you do need to get it hot. Start out at a lower heat maybe 500-600 degrees(use your imagination, I'm sure you don't have an infra-red temp gun!!!), so you can save your chrome on the kick arm. You can always increase the heat later. Make sure you let it cool down to room temp between cycles (don't cool it with water!). You want to use plenty of penetrant (the best stuff I ever used was a mixture of ATF and acetone but there are plenty of them on the market). Another thing that works is the old blacksmith trick, bees wax. Heat up the frozen connection and then take some bees wax and apply it to stubborn bolt or stud. The heat will melt the wax and pull it down into the frozen threads. Frozen threads are something you have to be patient with. You have to outwit them, rather than beat them into submission with brute strength :D.

Regards,
Geo.

i've got it in the vice, so i'm gonna hit in with heat(propane plumbing torch) and oil for a few days then try the chisel trick and if that doesn't work i'll go out and get some good quality easy outs (snap-on, matco,etc)

gapwelder 10-15-2011 04:37 PM

Re: deformed bolt head
 

I think that is a good plan given your resources. I don't know if has been mentioned but if you have access to the bottom of the bolt, it would help to drill a hole in the center of the threads. This will give the metal room to expand/contract during the heat/ cool cycle. Don't drill all the way through the bolt, just the length of the threads. The chisel method takes a bit of finesse. Too steep of an angle and you will just peel out the metal. Too shallow and the bolt won't turn when you hit the chisel. You don't want an overly sharp chisel, just sharp enough to bite. Don't be aggressive with the hammer. Just some sharp, solid strikes. Be sure to wear eye protection. Good Luck.

gw

flatman 10-15-2011 04:54 PM

Re: deformed bolt head
 

Don't you have a local cycle shop or a welding shop you could take it to to weld a nut (arc or mig) on the bolt and unscrew it for you? Should be between free, six pack, or less then 10 bucks. Would be cheaper than easy outs, but if you buy the easy outs instead you will have them next time? IMHO

chassy55 10-15-2011 09:51 PM

Re: deformed bolt head
 

Whackin' that bolt head with a hammer sometimes helps also. The vise can mark the lever up if you don't put something soft in there to clamp on, like blocks of wood or aluminum.

ob1quixote 10-15-2011 10:03 PM

Re: deformed bolt head
 

Put a little anti-seize on the new bolt...

57rigid 10-16-2011 02:56 AM

Re: deformed bolt head
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unkl Ian (Post 770792)
Weld a nut on the bolt.

this works for me quite often, sometimes if the remainder of the bolt is short you can weld a thick washer on first and then a nut on top of that, it also seems to me that the heat from welding will help loosen the bolt up

Dan Boy 10-16-2011 03:47 AM

Re: deformed bolt head
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by flatman (Post 771076)
Don't you have a local cycle shop or a welding shop you could take it to to weld a nut (arc or mig) on the bolt and unscrew it for you? Should be between free, six pack, or less then 10 bucks. Would be cheaper than easy outs, but if you buy the easy outs instead you will have them next time? IMHO

I think you should seriously consider this option before you buy anything. Consider where you will be if you bought some stud extractors (easy outs) and still couldn't get the bolt out.

A shop will have stud extractors, a welder, some heat, a guy who has done this many times before. Its a good and cheap option on limited funds.

Cheers Dan.

spununit 10-16-2011 04:17 AM

Re: deformed bolt head
 

Sounds like you need to go the heating or welding route. Someone said soak in brake fluid beware that if do, don't go near it with a gas torch as brake fluid is highly flammable especially important if it's attached to the bike.

Stinky Pete 10-16-2011 09:40 AM

Re: deformed bolt head
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by gapwelder (Post 771068)
I think that is a good plan given your resources. I don't know if has been mentioned but if you have access to the bottom of the bolt, it would help to drill a hole in the center of the threads.

Good point - I actually had some little bolts stuck fast in a headlight bucket. They we're philips head someone worked over pretty bad. I drilled a little hole in the head, in the center of the cross. The seemed to relieve enough pressure that I could take them out with channel locks.

alaskanrocket 10-16-2011 01:31 PM

Re: deformed bolt head
 

Wow, all this for a stuck bolt. Man, I've been gone for too long.

old.wrench 10-16-2011 02:06 PM

Re: deformed bolt head
 

Hang in there kydd. I've had the same problem with the same kicker pedal bolt. Let the penetrant and the heating and cooling cycles do their work. If the finish on the kick arm isn't of prime importance, you can increase the heat and speed the process up, but in the end you're still going to have to get a good grip on whatever is left of the bolt head. Welding a nut onto whatever is left of the bolt head is definitly the preferred method. You can weld it right through the hole in nut, let it cool, and then crank the offender out of there. Chase the threads with the appropiate tap, a new bolt with a little anti-sieze, a new lock washer, and you're good. If you can't find somebody to weld the nut for you, you might be able to carefully grind the bolt head enough to get a really GOOD grip with a pair of GOOD vise-grips. The cheesy ones that have slop and twist aren't worth a damn. Good Luck, and let us know how you make out.

Regards,
Geo.

Goldy 10-16-2011 04:53 PM

Re: deformed bolt head
 

Hard to believe that a thread on a stuck bolt could get this long :) Anyhow Kydd, Easyouts bust pretty easy too, be careful or this might turn into a thread on how to remove broken extractors :D
Have patience...Best of luck, I'm sure you'll get it!


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