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46international 05-10-2020 09:16 AM

Shovelhead pushrods
 

I'm trying to get my '76 shovel to start easier, and after all the normal stuff to check has been done I am down to adjusting the valves.
The thing is about this motor is that I did not build it so I don't know what parts are in it. What I do know is it has S&S cases and heads. I have no idea what cam, lifters, pushrods or anything about it. Before I adjust the valves I need to know if it has hyd lifters or solid lifters also what pushrods are in it as I've seen here that some pushrods have different threads so the number of turns will be different to get the pre-load on the Hyd lifters, if they are hyd.
I have a factory manual and an aftermarket manual so I have the "correct method to get this done. Problem is, how can I tell if I have hyd lifters or solid lifters without taking them out? I would think I could just see if I can compress them any, I can't, they seem solid, is this a good test?

The main problem is I can't get the pushrods out to replace the seals on the tubes. Did some looking at the internet and I see you can buy "quick remove" pushrods so I don't have to remove the rocker boxes to get them out.
Another thing is my pushrods have an adjuster that does not look like the stock ones in the book, they have much longer adjusters.
I did get one pushrod out becouse the adjuster end fell out of the pushrod when I adjusted it in all the way, the other adjusters will not come out of the pushrods so they will not come out.

My questions are,
should the adjuster come out of the pushrod itself? Is my one bad or are the other three just stuck?
is there a way to remove the pushrods without removing the rocker boxes? Other than bending them and installing the "quick install" type?
I need a good way to tell if I have hyd lifters or not. I'm thinking they are solid as I cannot push them down at all.

After more looking and reading, I'm sure I have S&S pushrods

stroker 05-10-2020 12:54 PM

Re: Shovelhead pushrods
 

no they should not fall out should be a light press fit adjust solids to just turn by hand hdyo adjust to halve over all travel or count turns from from s$s info

joe49 05-10-2020 02:51 PM

Re: Shovelhead pushrods
 

Cork seals can be change by slicing them at a angle that goes about 1/3 around with a razor blade. They will stick and seal up when installed. Push rods not coming out is the valve are sunk over spec in the heads, or are over length aftermarket. If you have oring seals, you can pry the push rods up to remove and reinstall them. Shorten completely, lifter on base circle, grab bottom of adjuster with long nose pliers add suitable lever under them and to the cylinder base, pry up an move fore or aft off lifter by shifting the lever. Your now a hack.

johnjzjz 05-10-2020 03:07 PM

Re: Shovelhead pushrods
 

before you start taking the thing apart and adjusting the valves is a thing to do every year I would make sure the intake is sealed as they are always suspect when running - starting - idling - and backfiring - loss of power - issues show up

adjusting the valves we do it this way others have other ideas but 35 years it has not failed us -

start with the two intakes all the covers open plugs out turn the engine in the direction rotation till one intake is at full lift - adjust the other intake then reverse the procedure then do the exhaust the same way one then the other

hyd and solids are done this way - thread count is only hyd lifters

Stormin 05-10-2020 05:50 PM

Re: Shovelhead pushrods
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnjzjz (Post 2067262)
before you start taking the thing apart and adjusting the valves is a thing to do every year I would make sure the intake is sealed as they are always suspect when running - starting - idling - and backfiring - loss of power - issues show up





Excellent advice.


adjusting the valves we do it this way others have other ideas but 35 years it has not failed us -

start with the two intakes all the covers open plugs out turn the engine in the direction rotation till one intake is at full lift - adjust the other intake then reverse the procedure then do the exhaust the same way one then the other

hyd and solids are done this way - thread count is only hyd lifters




Tried and true method, so simple I thought I must be doing something wrong!

46international 05-11-2020 06:41 AM

Re: Shovelhead pushrods
 

THANKS to all that have responded. I did check and reseal the intake just last week.


The lifters do not look stock, I spent some time researching and the "pocket" that the pushrod fits into is well below the top of the lifter housing, the stock hyd lifters look like they all extend above the lifter housing, That and the fact that the pushrods look exactly like the S&S ones that come in the "solid conversion " kit, I'm going to say they are solid.

My problem is now, since the front exhaust pushrod is broken (adjusting end comes out of the tube) I have to get a new pushrod in there. I have seen the "quickie" pushrods that can be installed without taking the rocker boxes off but I have not seen them for solid lifter shovelhead motors.

I did see somewhere on here that I may be able to get the pushrods in and out by removing the lifter housings, is this true?

What are the chances I can get the seals in place by working them over the top and bottom ends of the shortened pushrods? And cork seals are in it now, can I replace them with o ring type or do I have to stay with the cork?

Armand 05-11-2020 07:49 AM

Re: Shovelhead pushrods
 

I have solid lifters in mine. I can easily remove the p rods by adjusting them all the way in (making them shorter).

Fetch 05-11-2020 08:02 AM

Re: Shovelhead pushrods
 

Hydro or solid, the rods come out if the are adjusters are turned all the way in and an it off the cam lobe.....hydro will need 30 minutes or so to drain out but no need to open anything else.

46international 05-11-2020 08:07 AM

Re: Shovelhead pushrods
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armand (Post 2067276)
I have solid lifters in mine. I can easily remove the p rods by adjusting them all the way in (making them shorter).


I would think so also, but mine are just a little too long to get out.



Others have said this means my valves are recessed in the head. Hard to believe that all of them are recessed that far. and this bike was built years ago but only ridden about 4000 miles. Everything I have looked at supports that. And has S&S heads that I would think would have been installed at that time. I know I'm assuming a lot.


One other thing, when looking for pushrods, I see that they are different lengths about 10 or 20 thousands different, for taller jugs. how do I measure them? I'm not talking about the different length for front exhaust, rear exhaust and the intakes.

govmule84 05-11-2020 09:09 AM

Re: Shovelhead pushrods
 

You should probably be aware S&S sells three types of pushrod.

There are solids. These are not adjustable.
There are adjustables. These are, unsurprisingly, adjustable. Useful for taller jugs, as you mention... strokers.
There are also Quickee pushrods. Quickees collapse enough to remove the pushrods with everything else in situ.

Sounds like you have adjustables, but you want Quickees.

46international 05-11-2020 10:20 AM

Re: Shovelhead pushrods
 

YES, I have what looks like S&S adjustables and would like to buy the quickie style, I see them on J&P's website but they say "only for use with S&S tappets and tappet boxes. Problem is that it LOOKS like I have S&S pushrods so I guess I have S&S tappets but the pushrods do not have any name on them, so not sure.

Some other places I have seen adjustable pushrods that are for different height jugs, not knowing what I have, I was wondering where to measure the pushrods I have so I would know what to buy if I go this other route.

joe49 05-11-2020 10:49 AM

Re: Shovelhead pushrods
 

Post pictures.

46international 05-11-2020 03:36 PM

Re: Shovelhead pushrods
 

7 Attachment(s)
Here they are.
Nothing says S&S on them, I could order the S&S quickie style but they say they ONLY fit S&S tappets and tappet boxes. So it would be nice if I could ID these as S&S or not. More photos coming and you will see that There is no flat spot in the sides of the tappets, you know the flat area that goes toward each other to let oil go inside the Hyd tappet, so these must not be stock Hyd tappets with a solid adapter.
You will also see that one pushrod has the end that has the adjustable end that came off, That is the troublesome front exhaust. you will also see that the bad one is a little longer than the other "good" one, the good one is from the front intake

46international 05-11-2020 03:38 PM

Re: Shovelhead pushrods
 

3 Attachment(s)
Attachment 257158

Attachment 257160

Attachment 257162

More photos that show the parts, I guess I would like to know if these are S&S parts, If they are I can just order the S&S quickie pushrods.
Oh, I removed the intake pushrod by removing the tappet box, I guess I could get it back together the same way. May be a little tricky but I think I could do it.
Any thoughts?

joe49 05-11-2020 03:59 PM

Re: Shovelhead pushrods
 

Your this far pull the cam and see what you have. I hate this shit, you really have to go looking and get it right. No telling what the last guy in there did or his abilities. When it was still together and just not starting easy did you do a compression test? Or leak down?

johnjzjz 05-11-2020 05:16 PM

Re: Shovelhead pushrods
 

its a sifton kit my guess - and it will be china made

govmule84 05-11-2020 06:14 PM

Re: Shovelhead pushrods
 

That wear spot on the lifter block screams fuckery to me.

46international 05-12-2020 05:33 AM

Re: Shovelhead pushrods
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnjzjz (Post 2067298)
its a sifton kit my guess - and it will be china made




Thanks, I'll look into that and see what I find out.

46international 05-12-2020 05:40 AM

Re: Shovelhead pushrods
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe49 (Post 2067296)
Your this far pull the cam and see what you have. I hate this shit, you really have to go looking and get it right. No telling what the last guy in there did or his abilities. When it was still together and just not starting easy did you do a compression test? Or leak down?


Right about that, EVERYTHING I do with this bike I first have to figure out what was done before and what parts were used, but that's half the fun right?
No on the compression test and yes I'm kicking myself for that but I wanted to adjust the valves anyway and then I found the broken pushrod. so this is where I'm at.

joe49 05-12-2020 07:59 AM

Re: Shovelhead pushrods
 

You can still do a leak down test with out the push rods in. Low compression can cause hard starting, also.

http://https://www.mobil.com/en/lubr...-leakdown-test


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