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Old 05-11-2012, 11:27 AM   #121
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Default Re: Linkert v S&S

Wild idea here for the Linkerts...



================================================== ======

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Originally Posted by kickstarts View Post
Read the review in The Horse about it...I think I'll stick with the original.

In this case it looks more like a "Dog Steals Other Dog's Design Because Second Dog Is Lazy And Money Hungry" world.
Theft of Trade Secrets and Infringement of Copyrights and Patents

The intangible assets of a business include not only its trade name and other identifying devices but also its inventions, creative works, and artistic efforts. Broadly defined as trade secrets, this body of commercial information may consist of any formula, pattern, process, program, tool, technique, mechanism or compound that provides a business with the opportunity to gain advantage over competitors. Although a Trade Secret is not patented or copyrighted, it is entrusted only to a select group of people. The law of unfair competition awards individuals and businesses a property right in any valuable trade information they discover and attempt to keep secret through reasonable steps.
The owner of a trade secret is entitled to its exclusive use and enjoyment. A trade secret is valuable not only because it enables a company to gain advantage over a competitor but also because it may be sold or licensed like any other property right. In contrast, commercial information that is revealed to the public, or at least to a competitor, retains limited commercial value. Consequently, courts vigilantly protect trade secrets from disclosure, appropriation, and theft. Businesses or opportunistic members of the general public may be held liable for any economic injuries that result from their theft of a trade secret. Employees may be held liable for disclosing their employer's trade secrets, even if the disclosure occurs after the employment relationship has ended.
Valuable business information that is disclosed to the public may still be protected from infringement by Copyright and patent law. Copyright law gives individuals and businesses the exclusive rights to any original works they create, including movies, books, musical scores, sound recordings, dramatic creations, and pantomimes. Patent law gives individuals and businesses the right to exclude all others from making, using, and selling specific types of inventions, such as mechanical devices, manufacturing processes, chemical formulas, and electrical equipment. Federal law grants these exclusive rights in exchange for full public dis-closure of an original work or invention. The inventor or author receives complete legal protection for her intellectual efforts, while the public obtains valuable information that can be used to make life easier, healthier, or more pleasant.
Like the law of trade secrets, patent and copyright law offers protection to individuals and businesses that have invested considerable resources in creating something useful or valuable and wish to exploit that investment commercially. Unlike trade secrets, which may be protected indefinitely, patents and copyrights are protected only for a finite period of time. Applications for copyrights are governed by the Copyrights Act (17 U.S.C.A. 401), and patent applications are governed by the Patent Act (35 U.S.C.A. 1).


If the time allotted for the patent runs out.....Well there you have it....
.....Sharks will feast......

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Old 05-11-2012, 12:06 PM   #122
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Default Re: Linkert v S&S

Two wildcats:

....Cotten
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Old 05-11-2012, 03:01 PM   #123
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Default Re: Linkert v S&S

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Originally Posted by kickstarts View Post
S&S is one of the companies I don't feel like helping to put out of business any time soon, but you might disagree.

After S&S closes it's doors, maybe we can all buy flywheels, engines and stroker pistons and kits from Ultima? Cheaper generally means cheaper.
No I totally agree, and i am a big proponent of keeping things in America. I am the type that is willing to pay extra for the usa part. My wife and i have even completely boycotted wal mart.

Also, if I was the magazine CEO, i would constantly put down Chinese knock offs in print, and praise quality USA where i could. Hell I'd be the type to straight chuck the knock off product straight in the trash and still write the review like I actually tried it...

But I think its funny how in MOST mags (maybe or maybe not the horse) how the product that advertises gets the good review.
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Old 05-11-2012, 03:35 PM   #124
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Default Re: Linkert v S&S

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Hell I'd be the type to straight chuck the knock off product straight in the trash and still write the review like I actually tried it...

But I think its funny how in MOST mags (maybe or maybe not the horse) how the product that advertises gets the good review.
So you would be as dishonest as the mags getting the advertising dollars then?
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Old 05-11-2012, 04:44 PM   #125
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Default Re: Linkert v S&S

Livingcanvas!

It sure feels good to support USA suppliers, until it arrives as crap.

Specific to Linkerts and this thread,
One USA company flooded the distributors with 1 1/2" throttleshafts with huge slots, so they bound up when the screws were tightened. Another household name in USA-made hardware turned out venturies that were already pre-shrunken like fossil originals. (They assured me they would make better when those production runs were sold. duh.)

My best new hardware comes from folks I can look in the eye occasionally, and seriously, some must travel quite far.
(Otherwise, I gotta look in the mirror, and that's no fun.)

So, I don't care if a part is made on the Far Side of the Moon as long as it is quality.

....Cotten
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Old 05-13-2012, 06:16 PM   #126
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Default Re: Linkert v S&S

Wow Folks.

I hope didn't gross you all out.

So meanwhile,
what American motorcycle carburetor model preceeded the DC, and S&S's L-model "sidebowl" design?

(Not to be confused with ordinary Linkert Flatty bowls that are positioned to the side and called such.)

I think I know, but would delight to hear of others.

....Cotten
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Old 05-13-2012, 06:24 PM   #127
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Default Re: Linkert v S&S

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Wow Folks.

I hope didn't gross you all out.
Not at all, I would completely agree
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Old 05-14-2012, 09:08 AM   #128
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Default Re: Linkert v S&S

The S&S Super B on my Ironhead is right in my knee, and the Linkert looks a lot longer than the S&S. I remember seeing bikes with the carb mounted at about a 45 degree angle from the engine; I assume this is for knee clearance. How would this affect performance?
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Old 05-14-2012, 09:27 AM   #129
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Default Re: Linkert v S&S

The intake system on a four-stroke car engine has one main goal, to get as much air-fuel mixture into the cylinder as possible. One way to help the intake is by tuning the lengths of the pipes.
When the intake valve is open on the engine, air is being sucked into the engine, so the air in the intake runner is moving rapidly toward the cylinder. When the intake valve closes suddenly, this air slams to a stop and stacks up on itself, forming an area of high pressure. This high-pressure wave makes its way up the intake runner away from the cylinder. When it reaches the end of the intake runner, where the runner connects to the intake manifold, the pressure wave bounces back down the intake runner.
If the intake runner is just the right length, that pressure wave will arrive back at the intake valve just as it opens for the next cycle. This extra pressure helps cram more air-fuel mix into the cylinder -- effectively acting like a turbocharger.
The problem with this technique is that it only provides a benefit in a fairly narrow speed range. The pressure wave travels at the speed of sound (which depends on the density of the air) down the intake runner. The speed will vary a little bit depending on the temperature of the air and the speed it is moving, but a good guess for the speed of sound would be 1,300 feet per second (fps). Let's try to get an idea how long the intake runner would have to be to take advantage of this effect.
Let's say the engine is running at 5,000 rpm. The intake valve opens once every two revolutions (720 degrees), but let's say they stay open for 250 degrees. That means that there are 470 degrees between when the intake valve closes and when it opens again. At 5,000 rpm it will take the engine 0.012 seconds to turn one revolution, and 470 degrees is about 1.31 revolutions, so it takes 0.0156 seconds between when the valve closes and when it opens again. At 1,300 fps multiplied by 0.0156 seconds, the pressure wave would travel about 20 feet. But, since must go up the intake runner and then come back, the intake runner would only have to be half this length or about 10 feet.
Two things become apparent after doing this calculation:
  1. The tuning of the intake runner will only have an effect in a fairly narrow RPM range. If we redo the calculation at 3,000 rpm, the length calculated would be completely different.
  2. Ten feet is too long. You can't fit pipes that long under the hood of a car very easily.
There is not too much that can be done about the first problem. A tuned intake has its main benefit in a very narrow speed range. But there is a way to shorten the intake runners and still get some benefit from the pressure wave. If we shorten the intake runner length by a factor of four, making it 2.5 feet, the pressure wave will travel up and down the pipe four times before the intake valve opens again. But it still arrives at the valve at the right time.
There are a lot of intricacies and tricks to intake systems. For instance, it is beneficial to have the intake air moving as fast as possible into the cylinders. This increases the turbulence and mixes the fuel with the air better. One way to increase the air velocity is to use a smaller diameter intake runner. Since roughly the same volume of air enters the cylinder each cycle, if you pump that air through a smaller diameter pipe it will have to go faster.
The downside to using smaller diameter intake runners is that at high engine speeds when lots of air is going through the pipes, the restriction from the smaller diameter may inhibit airflow. So for the large airflows at higher speeds it is better to have large diameter pipes. Some carmakers attempt to get the best of both worlds by using dual intake runners for each cylinder -- one with a small diameter and one with a large diameter. They use a butterfly valve to close off the large diameter runner at lower engine speeds where the narrow runner can help performance. Then the valve opens up at higher engine speeds to reduce the intake restriction, increasing the top end power output.
===============================================

Well...You asked....


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Old 05-14-2012, 10:52 AM   #130
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Default Re: Linkert v S&S

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Originally Posted by Richard D View Post
The S&S Super B on my Ironhead is right in my knee, and the Linkert looks a lot longer than the S&S. I remember seeing bikes with the carb mounted at about a 45 degree angle from the engine; I assume this is for knee clearance. How would this affect performance?
Richard D!

Carburetors with floats usually enjoy being level, athough its gotta be like a washing machine in there anyway.

Knee clearance is more of an issue for some of us than others. When you must wrap your leg around it to find the brake, it can be a safety issue.

....Cotten
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Old 05-14-2012, 10:52 AM   #131
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Default Re: Linkert v S&S

Damn, that’s a lot of good info. But I’m still wondering, *if I make a 45 degree intake manifold so my knee isn’t in the right hand lane, will my bike be noticeably slower? Also taking into account the aerodynamics of my right leg being closer to the bike!
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Old 05-14-2012, 10:56 AM   #132
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Default Re: Linkert v S&S

Cotten-
I ment level but angled toward the engine, 45 degrees looking down from above, a "plan view".
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Old 05-14-2012, 11:05 AM   #133
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Default Re: Linkert v S&S

You can save yourself some work....A/M has them on the market...



Don't think that you could tell alot of change in Performance by installing one.
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Old 05-14-2012, 11:12 AM   #134
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Default Re: Linkert v S&S

Exactly!
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Old 05-14-2012, 11:16 AM   #135
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Default Re: Linkert v S&S

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Damn, that’s a lot of good info. But I’m still wondering, *if I make a 45 degree intake manifold so my knee isn’t in the right hand lane, will my bike be noticeably slower? Also taking into account the aerodynamics of my right leg being closer to the bike!
A Linkert didn't hang out in the wind on a stock setup, is it the stack that's causing the problems? I believe I'd go to a stock style air cleaner before I built a 45/90 degree intake that might or might not work.
Nuther plus would be you could run a filter.
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Old 05-14-2012, 11:18 AM   #136
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Default Re: Linkert v S&S

Haven't recieved the carb yet, just thinkin out loud. And I do plan to use a air cleaner.
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Old 05-14-2012, 11:57 AM   #137
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A Linkert didn't hang out in the wind on a stock setup, ...
Larry T!

The intake ports on Pans, Flatties, and Knucks are on the far side of the bike, so a long, thin carb could be tucked in sweetly between the cylinders.
But they moved the ports half-way to the middle with shovelheads, making a long carb impractical.

So carbs got short and fat for some reason, and you cannot tuck them between the cylinders on a Pan. An extention or longer manifold is required, and there goes your knee room.

A stock Linkert's aircleaner under 3.5 tanks is something that feels comforting against your leg when a rainstorm makes you tuck it in.

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Old 05-14-2012, 12:58 PM   #138
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Default Re: Linkert v S&S

That's good news. How long is a M74B anyway?
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Old 05-14-2012, 01:12 PM   #139
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That's good news. How long is a M74B anyway?
the carb body alone is 5 and 1/8"
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Old 05-14-2012, 01:23 PM   #140
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Default Re: Linkert v S&S

Thanks.
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