Steering Stem Rake Bearing Questions.................

[Johnny-5]

Im wanting to go with a springer front end which it is a 1" steering stem so Ill have to convert my 69 stock steering I believe its 7/8.

Im also wanting to go from stock 30 degree rake to 35 and was going to have the stem cut and welded but Im being told that they have race kits that have a 5 degree rake to them?

So basically Im needing to convert my bearings and also looking for a set that rakes the front end. Basically all in one. Im being told they have it but I cant find anything on it.

Thanks in advance.

[littlebike]

Try searching "raked trees" & "neck bearing conversions" the search function is your friend

[worn]

Here's one source
http://www.vtwinmfg.com/catalogs/cyr/pdf/855.pdf

I don't see why it would be a problem, your bike won't need a longer stem like the later bikes.

[Johnny-5]

Ok let me rephrase this a bit. Im also doing a search around on google as well as on here!


Anyways I just picked this up last night thus the questions regarding the dimensions on the late springers.

Anyways Im reading a few places and its stating that the late model springers (I believe this is a 90's) and just want to know if this is pre-raked 3 degrees? I would love to rake the bike from 30 to 35 degree. Im being told that they have 5 degree rake cups which Ive found but I have a 69 Frame which doesnt utilize the 1" stem. Im not able to find a 1" conversion kit and also raked 5 degree. I believe the highest I found was 3 on a 1" conversion kit. But than it also depends on the springer if its rake or not raked.

Any info on this would be great. Ive attached a picture of the springer I picked up.

[old.wrench]

Johny, yes it looks to be a Soft tail springer front end. They have an offset stem which in fact does give them a built-in rake. But, its what you might call a "de-rake" because it pulls the wheel in towards the frame rather than pushing it out away from the frame. There are two versions of the late model Harley springers. The one used on the FX models have around 3 degrees of "de-rake" and the ones used on the FL models have a bit more. You can tell the difference between them by the raised letters "FL" or "FX" on the bottom of the lower "tripple tree". Also, the FX has the brake on the right and the FL has the brake on the left. The left side rocker has a slightly different axle hole to accomodate the brake set-up on the FL as well.

Regards,
Geo.

[Johnny-5]

Geo Thank you for your response. Going off of what your stating Im guessing mine is a FX as the brake is on the right side. How does that work when its de-raked? Does that mean my stock 30 degree rake would now be only 27 degree? Sorry once again all this is totally new to me.

What would I need to do to get my rake out to about 35 degree? Are the bearing cups good and safe?

Originally Posted by old.wrench

Johny, yes it looks to be a Soft tail springer front end. They have an offset stem which in fact does give them a built-in rake. But, its what you might call a "de-rake" because it pulls the wheel in towards the frame rather than pushing it out away from the frame. There are two versions of the late model Harley springers. The one used on the FX models have around 3 degrees of "de-rake" and the ones used on the FL models have a bit more. You can tell the difference between them by the raised letters "FL" or "FX" on the bottom of the lower "tripple tree". Also, the FX has the brake on the right and the FL has the brake on the left. The left side rocker has a slightly different axle hole to accomodate the brake set-up on the FL as well.

Regards,
Geo.

[HD48FL]

Those newer type springers are deraked, as explained by old.wrench.

Those springers never look right on an older frame. I'm not sure if raked cups are going to help or hurt you? With raked cups and a deraked springer, who knows what kind of trail you're going to have? Is your frame stock rake?

[HD48FL]

Originally Posted by Johnny-5

Geo Thank you for your response. Going off of what your stating Im guessing mine is a FX as the brake is on the right side. How does that work when its de-raked? Does that mean my stock 30 degree rake would now be only 27 degree? Sorry once again all this is totally new to me.

What would I need to do to get my rake out to about 35 degree? Are the bearing cups good and safe?

If you want 35° rake, then you should have your frame raked properly. I don't think you're going to achieve what you want with a deraked springer and raked fork cups. You're trying to compensate for too many things. Rake the frame and do it the safe way.

[Johnny-5]

Yes my frame is stock and I checked it and its 30 degrees.

Originally Posted by HD48FL

Those newer type springers are deraked, as explained by old.wrench.

Those springers never look right on an older frame. I'm not sure if raked cups are going to help or hurt you? With raked cups and a deraked springer, who knows what kind of trail you're going to have? Is your frame stock rake?

[HD48FL]

Originally Posted by Johnny-5

Yes my frame is stock and I checked it and its 30 degrees.

If you want 35°, then have your frame raked.

[Johnny-5]

Ok Im fine with getting the frame raked and doing everything properly but now you guys got me thinking on the springer being de-raked? Will I be able to use this still or did I just blow alot of money for something I cant even use?

Originally Posted by HD48FL

If you want 35° rake, then you should have your frame raked properly. I don't think you're going to achieve what you want with a deraked springer and raked fork cups. You're trying to compensate for too many things. Rake the frame and do it the safe way.

[HD48FL]

Originally Posted by Johnny-5

Ok Im fine with getting the frame raked and doing everything properly but now you guys got me thinking on the springer being de-raked? Will I be able to use this still or did I just blow alot of money for something I cant even use?

You can use that springer if your frame is setup correctly for it. I don't think those newer springers look good on older frames though, but that's up to you.

[Johnny-5]

Well I was going to settle with DNA springers but Ive been getting a lot of crap from people to go with something better or even better to go with OEM. Since Ive gone through all this trouble for it Im determined to use it and I dont think it looks all that bad really. Just got to figure out how to get this setup done.

Originally Posted by HD48FL

You can use that springer if your frame is setup correctly for it. I don't think those newer springers look good on older frames though, but that's up to you.

[HD48FL]

Originally Posted by Johnny-5

Well I was going to settle with DNA springers but Ive been getting a lot of crap from people to go with something better or even better to go with OEM. Since Ive gone through all this trouble for it Im determined to use it and I dont think it looks all that bad really. Just got to figure out how to get this setup done.

The repop springers, early style - '36 to '48 type, are very nice and well made. They're made in either inline or offset and in varying lengths. Ultimately, you'd be best to get the rake you want out of the frame and then figure out what length front end you'd need and set it up that way. If the springer you bought fits the bill, then you'll be fine. If not, think about selling it and you'd most likely have some coin left after buying one of the repop springers. Lot's of options is a good thing, something to keep in mind.

[old.wrench]

Johnny, The front end you have is top quality. I'm running one on a rigid shovel myself. I don't have any thing against the DNA's but in my opinion,they're not even in the same league as the late model Harley springer. I probably used the wrong term when I called it "deraked", actually it is an "off set" springer. I was trying to describe the affect it would have on the total front end rake on your bike. If you study that front end a little bit you can understand why the Factory would de-rake it. It allowed Harley to use the same frame, with the same neck angle on both the Springer and the model with the conventional glide front end. The result is that the front axle ends up in about the same place relative to the neck on both models even though axle is pushed forward by the rockers on the Springer. Another result is that the trail number would also be close to same on both the springer and the glide (to be honest, I've never run the numbers on this, but I can see it in my head ). In my opinion the only thing that detracts from the look of the late model springers may be the way the shock absorber looks. I've gotten around that by shaving off the lower shock mount on the front "spring" fork, and using the top shock mount on the rear "rigid" fork for a headlight mount. Although I think it looks better, it really did ride better with the shock.

Regards,
Geo.

[J_F_Byrd]

Originally Posted by Johnny-5

Ok let me rephrase this a bit. Im also doing a search around on google as well as on here!


Anyways I just picked this up last night thus the questions regarding the dimensions on the late springers.

Anyways Im reading a few places and its stating that the late model springers (I believe this is a 90's) and just want to know if this is pre-raked 3 degrees? I would love to rake the bike from 30 to 35 degree. Im being told that they have 5 degree rake cups which Ive found but I have a 69 Frame which doesnt utilize the 1" stem. Im not able to find a 1" conversion kit and also raked 5 degree. I believe the highest I found was 3 on a 1" conversion kit. But than it also depends on the springer if its rake or not raked.

Any info on this would be great. Ive attached a picture of the springer I picked up.

As others have mentioned here, the HD spinger has a 3 degree reverse rake in the stem. No one I am aware of makes anything with more than 3 degrees in a raked cup set; there just isn't room in the head.

If you want to end up with 35 degrees of rake with that front end, you will need to rake your frame to 38 degrees: 38-3=35. Then the question will be whether that front end is going to be long enough.

If it were my project, I would sell that front end, and buy a Paugho HD replica in the correct length for whatever rake you decide you want to end up with. Paugho's springers are available with no rake, or positive rake in models 8" over and longer. Going from 27 degrees to 35 degrees is probably going to require 2-4" over in the legs.

[Johnny-5]

How much do the repop ones go for and who would you recommend to go through? I may consider this route as well.

Originally Posted by HD48FL

The repop springers, early style - '36 to '48 type, are very nice and well made. They're made in either inline or offset and in varying lengths. Ultimately, you'd be best to get the rake you want out of the frame and then figure out what length front end you'd need and set it up that way. If the springer you bought fits the bill, then you'll be fine. If not, think about selling it and you'd most likely have some coin left after buying one of the repop springers. Lot's of options is a good thing, something to keep in mind.

[Johnny-5]

Do you happen to have a picture of your bike? Would love to see how it looks on the bike.

Originally Posted by old.wrench

Johnny, The front end you have is top quality. I'm running one on a rigid shovel myself. I don't have any thing against the DNA's but in my opinion,they're not even in the same league as the late model Harley springer. I probably used the wrong term when I called it "deraked", actually it is an "off set" springer. I was trying to describe the affect it would have on the total front end rake on your bike. If you study that front end a little bit you can understand why the Factory would de-rake it. It allowed Harley to use the same frame, with the same neck angle on both the Springer and the model with the conventional glide front end. The result is that the front axle ends up in about the same place relative to the neck on both models even though axle is pushed forward by the rockers on the Springer. Another result is that the trail number would also be close to same on both the springer and the glide (to be honest, I've never run the numbers on this, but I can see it in my head ). In my opinion the only thing that detracts from the look of the late model springers may be the way the shock absorber looks. I've gotten around that by shaving off the lower shock mount on the front "spring" fork, and using the top shock mount on the rear "rigid" fork for a headlight mount. Although I think it looks better, it really did ride better with the shock.

Regards,
Geo.

[Johnny-5]

So if Im getting this right your telling me that my stock is 30 so with this springer it will make it 27 degree?

Originally Posted by J_F_Byrd

As others have mentioned here, the HD spinger has a 3 degree reverse rake in the stem. No one I am aware of makes anything with more than 3 degrees in a raked cup set; there just isn't room in the head.

If you want to end up with 35 degrees of rake with that front end, you will need to rake your frame to 38 degrees: 38-3=35. Then the question will be whether that front end is going to be long enough.

If it were my project, I would sell that front end, and buy a Paugho HD replica in the correct length for whatever rake you decide you want to end up with. Paugho's springers are available with no rake, or positive rake in models 8" over and longer. Going from 27 degrees to 35 degrees is probably going to require 2-4" over in the legs.

[HD48FL]

Originally Posted by J_F_Byrd

If you want to end up with 35 degrees of rake with that front end, you will need to rake your frame to 38 degrees: 38-3=35. Then the question will be whether that front end is going to be long enough.

If it were my project, I would sell that front end, and buy a Paugho HD replica in the correct length for whatever rake you decide you want to end up with. Paugho's springers are available with no rake, or positive rake in models 8" over and longer. Going from 27 degrees to 35 degrees is probably going to require 2-4" over in the legs.

That's what I was trying to get at in my last post. With additional rake you wind up needing a longer front end. Right now you're fixed into a front end.

Look at the repop springers, Vtwin sells them as well as 45 parts depot. They are a good value. They have inline, offset, and different lengths. Check out both sites:

http://www.vtwinmfg.com/webapp/wcs/s..._142247_142864

www.45partsdepot.com