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Old 10-14-2010, 12:31 AM   #1
rsssbelair
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Default Shovelhead performance talk/build.

Hey all,

I'm doing my shovel and get mix information from everyone I talk to. I'm also trying to save as much money as I can. So, I would like to make this thread into a build process and help with building the best motor I can.

First things first,
The motor in the first bike.


The motor before I split the cases,


I will get the pics of the cases split tomorrow and also the heads apart.
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Old 10-14-2010, 12:36 AM   #2
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Default Re: Shovelhead performance talk/build.

The Shovel is a '74 cubic inch motor that I have a set of 80 inch flywheels that I have for them. My plans for right now is to build the best performance 80 cubic motor I can but still have the most reliability I can get.

Nothing is bought yet so any Information on performance would be great.
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Old 10-14-2010, 08:52 AM   #3
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Default Re: Shovelhead performance talk/build.

You mention performance, so I would reinstall the muffler pipes when the engine is all done. Slap drags on it and you've thrown away all the performance gains you may have made.
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Old 10-14-2010, 09:02 AM   #4
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Default Re: Shovelhead performance talk/build.

There are a ton of things you can do to keep it reliable. Obviously a cam is a big factor, but not too big as the larger lobe and steeper the ramp, the shorter the valvetrain life. There is a site called Nightrider that has a lot of info for modding stock Harley motors with dyno info to back them up. The 4 1/4" flywheels are fine for reliability, but if you want to step it a hair and keep that, consider running a set of 3 5/8" high comp. pistons (wih jugs obviously). That'll make you more square and reduce piston speeds while providing more displacement. Head work is always a plus too. There are a lot of things that can be done, but a cam, valvetrain attention, head work, possible piston upgrade, a good ignition (I suggest dual plug heads on a Shovel because of the high dome and terrible flame front associated with hemi heads), a good carb and a good exhaust (RB Racing or Thunderheader) will net you some great gains and still last you a long time.
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Old 10-14-2010, 10:59 AM   #5
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Default Re: Shovelhead performance talk/build.

4 3/4" stroke
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Old 10-14-2010, 12:35 PM   #6
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Default Re: Shovelhead performance talk/build.

+1 on the Thunderheader.

They truly are the best performance pipe out there.

You can make good power with a Shovel, they have some limitations as mentioned.

Just concentrate on torque, thats what you feel on the ole butt dyno. Having a bike that pulls hard through the gears is WAY more fun than having one that operates in a narrow RPM range.
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Old 10-14-2010, 01:00 PM   #7
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Default Re: Shovelhead performance talk/build.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDawg View Post
" 3 5/8" high comp. pistons"
For my own curiosity, what are you considering High Compression while retaining reliability. 8 or 8.5 to 1?

I'm building something similar and have been wondering what the safety zone might concerning compression.
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Old 10-14-2010, 01:53 PM   #8
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Default Re: Shovelhead performance talk/build.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brothaman View Post
For my own curiosity, what are you considering High Compression while retaining reliability. 8 or 8.5 to 1?

I'm building something similar and have been wondering what the safety zone might concerning compression.
That's stock compression ratio. Depending on the manufacturer, around 9.5:1. Still able to be kickstarted, but give you a good enough bump to make more horsies.
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Old 10-14-2010, 02:07 PM   #9
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Default Re: Shovelhead performance talk/build.

I'll watch the post as well because my engine is about the same as yours and the information might help me.
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Old 10-14-2010, 02:35 PM   #10
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Default Re: Shovelhead performance talk/build.

i run 10.5:1, dual plugs.andrews #6 cam.its 88 inch.starts easy,runs fn great.
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Old 10-14-2010, 02:41 PM   #11
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Default Re: Shovelhead performance talk/build.

This is what I had in my 1970 shovel, some opinions differ. This worked for me, and was plenty fast with my 6'1 315 pound ass on it!

OE evo 80" flywheels
OE evo rods (with shovel bushings in them)
OE late shovel barrels
Keith Black 9.5:1 compression shovel pistons
Moderate headwork (intake and exhaust mildly ported, new valves and seats, hardened valve guides, and machined the heads to take late model valve seals)
Andrews BH cam
S&S Super E
S&S oil pump
Paughco Up swept pipes
Primo/rivera belt drive (48 tooth motor sprocket, 72 tooth clutch hub for a 1.62 drive ratio)
24 tooth trans sprocket
48 tooth rear sprocket

I could do 80/90mph on the freeway all day, and have fun getting there! My feet and hands were numb as fuck after a while, but it was still a blast!!!!
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Old 10-14-2010, 03:04 PM   #12
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Default Re: Shovelhead performance talk/build.

Stroke it! Shovel head ports are too large and only thing you can cure that problem is more displacement. Donīt worry about compression, You can drive safely 1:11 no problems IF you choose a cam big enough. I love Leineweber cams. My panshovel has 4 3/4 stroke, 10:1 comp and Leineweber L51 cam.
Love the TQ and pulls hard at the top end.
Speed costs, do You have the money?
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Old 10-14-2010, 05:18 PM   #13
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Default Re: Shovelhead performance talk/build.

Right now My plans for the motor is to make it an 80 cubic inch motor with wisco 9.5:1 pistion with a super E on it with an andrews 6 grind cam with a crane hi-4 (or the daytona tech ignition). This is just the idea for a start of a build. this is all on a kickstart only bike.



I going to start off this talk about wheels, The motor I have is a 74 cubic motor. so,

4" stroke with a bore of 3 7/16 = 74 cubic
4" stroke with a bore of 3 1/2 = 78 cubic
4 1/2 stroke with a bore of 3 1/2 = 80 cubic

I do have a set of 80 inch wheels all rebuilt and ready to be trued and balanced. Would it make more sence going 3 5/8 jugs and keeping the 4 1/2 stroke, or running 4 5/8 stroke and running 3 1/2 or bigger or just runnning the stright 80 cubic? looking for the most out of both performance and miles.

I'm going with a buget of around 2,500 bucks for the motor rebuild.
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Old 10-14-2010, 06:44 PM   #14
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Default Re: Shovelhead performance talk/build.

youll have a nice motor for that amuont
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Old 10-14-2010, 07:06 PM   #15
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Default Re: Shovelhead performance talk/build.

Hey HDSHOVEL82,
Do you think your 6 grind cam is too much for an 80? The motor had an A grind in it, I have a chance to get a 6 grind for $100 brand new.
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Old 10-14-2010, 07:12 PM   #16
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Default Re: Shovelhead performance talk/build.

yea.ive got a cam i used for a cple of years in an 80 inch but had some head work.let me find get you the numbers off it.if ya want it its yours.ill check over the weekend.
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Old 10-14-2010, 09:34 PM   #17
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Default Re: Shovelhead performance talk/build.

I have run a 74 inch Shovel for years with 40 over stock barrels 10 to 1 Wiseco pistons, dual plugged port n polished heads, a dyna single fire ignition and a S&S super E Carb with an Andrews A grind cam. Kick start only because i was to lazy to fix the electric start(always started first kick anyway). Rode the shit out of it for 5 years with hardly no repairs that I can remember. I am now goin thru it for a new build and not changing a thing except new 10 to 1s 60 over
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Old 10-15-2010, 08:41 AM   #18
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Default Re: Shovelhead performance talk/build.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rsssbelair View Post
Right now My plans for the motor is to make it an 80 cubic inch motor with wisco 9.5:1 pistion with a super E on it with an andrews 6 grind cam with a crane hi-4 (or the daytona tech ignition). This is just the idea for a start of a build. this is all on a kickstart only bike.



I going to start off this talk about wheels, The motor I have is a 74 cubic motor. so,

4" stroke with a bore of 3 7/16 = 74 cubic
4" stroke with a bore of 3 1/2 = 78 cubic
4 1/2 stroke with a bore of 3 1/2 = 80 cubic

I do have a set of 80 inch wheels all rebuilt and ready to be trued and balanced. Would it make more sence going 3 5/8 jugs and keeping the 4 1/2 stroke, or running 4 5/8 stroke and running 3 1/2 or bigger or just runnning the stright 80 cubic? looking for the most out of both performance and miles.

I'm going with a buget of around 2,500 bucks for the motor rebuild.
The 80ci stroke is 4 1/4". The 74ci is 3 31/32". The only change from there is stepping up to a stroker bottom end...and if you're going to do that, then you're going to spend out of your budget.

The more square a motor (stroke=bore) is, the more reliable it will be in general. 88ci Shovels offer good power while maintaining good reliability, which is why I recommend the big bore on the 4 1/4" stroke.

Go with a Dyna S ignition and dual plugs. I have a Dyna and a Hi-4...the Dyna tops it.
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Old 10-15-2010, 10:05 AM   #19
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Default Re: Shovelhead performance talk/build.

I have only one problem with 3 5/8 bore jugs. You have to bore the cases and that can cause problems. It is very typical to see cases cracked on the lifter side at the oil passage. When you bore the cases, they get too thin and eventually crack from stress and vibration...not always, but it is VERY common. Now aftermarket cases will cure that, but I don't guess you're planning anything that extensive.

For a daily rider, use the advice above. Especially head work and a cam. 74 inch, 80 inch, whatever. They both work and work well. There's a line to be drawn between power and reliability.

Oh yeah, definitely single fire ignition, better carb/ air filter, and exhaust. Drag pipes are cool, but rob horsepower. 2 into 1 makes the best power.
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Old 10-15-2010, 10:07 AM   #20
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Default Re: Shovelhead performance talk/build.

That's the way I like them too. Stock 80" stroke and big bore. I always use 80" shovel jugs and bore them 60 over. Use a cam with lots of duration and slightly more than stock lift. Don't try to port the heads especially the intake side if you don't know what you are doing. You will do more harm than good. For a carb, an S&S B can be found cheap. They start good if you learn to not flood it.
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