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Old 11-16-2009, 05:25 PM   #1
Electric Eric
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Default Pan top end on a shovelhead bottom end questions.

hello!
I lucked out and found a complete panhead top end to put on my '81 FXS. I know it's been done before, and I'd appreciate any help any of you people could give me here. I've got the jugs, (74 in. .020 over, with new fitted pistons and rings) new wrist pin bushings, fresh heads, S&S Pan manifold, S&S Super E, and the split oil line adapter it takes to get the oil up to both cylinders.
I know I'll need pan exhaust, and I think I'll need to get push rods and tubes because the shovel push rods and tubes are too long, someone said??
ANY input on this will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Electric Eric
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Old 11-16-2009, 05:41 PM   #2
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Default Re: Pan top end on a shovelhead bottom end questions.

Interesting.......

To be honest I've never seen this done before and kinda wondered about this myself.

I will be secretly watching this thread.
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Old 11-16-2009, 05:44 PM   #3
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Default Re: Pan top end on a shovelhead bottom end questions.

They put shovels on pans all the time, so why can't I reverse engineer it? I've been known to be a little backwards!
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Old 11-16-2009, 08:14 PM   #4
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Default Re: Pan top end on a shovelhead bottom end questions.

I was doing this, I gave the project to one of my buddys, old bikers without bikes sucks, so he is finnishing it, you will need to find 74 wheels to work with the pistons, or use 80 pistons and boar the juggs out, has been done, but find the 74 flywheels, you allready know the reast....Roach.
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Old 11-16-2009, 09:27 PM   #5
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Default Re: Pan top end on a shovelhead bottom end questions.

Easy as pie! The pistons will need to be changed to stroker pistons ( for 4-1/4" stroke) for a 74. Easier than changing a crank, just match the weight to your old ones to keep the balance the same. The pushrod covers are fine, you only need the short top clips. You will need Panhead pushrods, the ball ends are different sizes.
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Old 11-16-2009, 10:40 PM   #6
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Default Re: Pan top end on a shovelhead bottom end questions.

There ya go! Thanks Robby good add on......Roach.
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Old 11-16-2009, 10:48 PM   #7
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Default Re: Pan top end on a shovelhead bottom end questions.

I belive you will find the rear head will hit the seat post slightly. not nearly as much as a pan or shovel in a knuckle frame. little heat and a sturdy wack with the hammer will make life easyer. I will have to say though I don't know why you woulkd do so? I love a pan but without the kidney case well they don't look right. I say keep the shovel as is and build a panhead! yea swett wishbone tin primary magneto yea thats it. ohh sorry
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Old 11-16-2009, 11:27 PM   #8
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Default Re: Pan top end on a shovelhead bottom end questions.

How are you going to drain oil back? Through the pushrod tubes?What cam? What heads? STD? Real? Why?
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Old 11-16-2009, 11:51 PM   #9
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Default Re: Pan top end on a shovelhead bottom end questions.

The oil drains back through the barrels to the lower part of the piston on 54 and later pans same as shovels. And the 70-84 cam will work just fine, yeah, you need the shorter clips, and shorten the top tubes a little....Roach.
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Old 11-17-2009, 03:08 AM   #10
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Default Re: Pan top end on a shovelhead bottom end questions.

I cheated and went with STD heads. I use original panhead rockers, shovel pushrods and shovel pushrod covers.

I use a shovel o-ring intake manifold. And the outside oilers from Vulcan engineering.

I thought the upside to using the STD heads would be to have a 3 bolt exhaust vs the 1 bolt on shovels, or the clamp type on pans, so I went that route, but engineering wise, I cheated........

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Old 11-17-2009, 05:00 AM   #11
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Default Re: Pan top end on a shovelhead bottom end questions.

interested to see your progress on this..
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Old 11-17-2009, 06:03 AM   #12
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Default Re: Pan top end on a shovelhead bottom end questions.

STD panheads also use the shovel cyls...By going to the Y intake...
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Old 11-17-2009, 11:31 AM   #13
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Default Re: Pan top end on a shovelhead bottom end questions.

Yes, shovel cylinders with the STD heads, as well as shovel valves guides springs etc...

Basically when using the STD heads the bottom end of your shovel stays shovel, as well as the jugs, pistons, etc... Then like above, your top-end uses shovel internals, with the exception of the rockers, which use the stock panhead rockers.

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Old 11-17-2009, 11:38 AM   #14
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Default Re: Pan top end on a shovelhead bottom end questions.

And you'll need to check your heads for valve spring bind, valve-to-piston, and valve-to-valve clearance. The pan rocker arms have a greater lift ratio than the shovels.

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Old 11-17-2009, 12:28 PM   #15
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Default Re: Pan top end on a shovelhead bottom end questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixball View Post
I cheated and went with STD heads. I use original panhead rockers, shovel pushrods and shovel pushrod covers.

Sixball

The panhead rocker arm use a bigger ball on the pushrods, then the Shovel's. You may need to check and see what you are runing there...The other end are the same that goes in the liffers. (If OEM)
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Last edited by Dragstews; 11-17-2009 at 12:47 PM.
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Old 11-17-2009, 12:51 PM   #16
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Default Re: Pan top end on a shovelhead bottom end questions.

This Motor Is A 64 Bottom 80" Shovel Barrels An Pistons And A Pair Of Std Panheads To Fit The Shovel Bolt Pattern
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Old 11-17-2009, 01:19 PM   #17
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Default Re: Pan top end on a shovelhead bottom end questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragstews View Post
The panhead rocker arm use a bigger ball on the pushrods, then the Shovel's. You may need to check and see what you are runing there...The other end are the same that goes in the liffers. (If OEM)
Hmmm. You got me thinking now. I haven't fired this one yet, but getting close. I've just got the pushrods sitting in there loose, as I haven't timed it yet. I talked to someone before I bought the STD heads and they said I could use my shovel pushrods.

So are you saying that I would need to use panhead pushrods? If the ends are the same on the lifter end (I'm running the cheap-o CCI solid lifter conversion) I would then need the larger panhead ball end for the top-end ?

Sorry to highjack the thread, but the more info the better....

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Old 11-17-2009, 02:07 PM   #18
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Default Re: Pan top end on a shovelhead bottom end questions.

Yes ..The pan's used a ball about a 1/2" big on the OEM arms....The Shovel's are alot smaller about 3/8"....

The liffer end is about 1/4" on both pan's and shovel's...for hyd.s

After-market used some diff. sizes down there for soilds

Do think you should pull one out for a look-see.
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Last edited by Dragstews; 11-17-2009 at 02:24 PM.
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Old 11-17-2009, 04:50 PM   #19
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Default Re: Pan top end on a shovelhead bottom end questions.

Ahhh, okay using STD stuff makes it much easier, and like DragStew said, use Pan pushrods. You know a nice healthy Andrews B2 or #7 grind cam can make that combo sing...yes?
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Old 11-17-2009, 05:56 PM   #20
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Default Re: Pan top end on a shovelhead bottom end questions.

Panheads are cool, but shovelheads are better perfomers, so why the change????
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